E
EastUS
Guest
Said spin cycle will no doubt be fed in continuous-loop format all the way up to the election. Personally?....I can hardly wait for the "flush" cycle.
Let's VOTE!
ALPA/USAPA Topic for week of 1/24 to 1/31
- Thread starter Crzipilot
- Start date
- Status
Said spin cycle will no doubt be fed in continuous-loop format all the way up to the election. Personally?....I can hardly wait for the "flush" cycle.
Let's VOTE!
AWA320
Veteran
Here let me break it down for you since want to play all stupid! In the west if I had a list LIKE USAPA DID of pilots who had not submitted cards I could log on to maestro and see their entire line for the month and could have my people in place LIKE USAPA DID before or after their trip to guilt them into signing a card JUST LIKE USAPA DID!! Now one of you man up and say you didn't use this dirty tactic, put it in print PLEASE!!!
AWA320
Veteran
Sorry to burst your bubble there partner but I don't post on the alpa main board and I don't use an avatar on the inhouse board... NNow you will see that several use this avatar it's a sort of solidarity thing, get it??
E
EastUS
Guest
A minor point good sir = Maestro isn''t Catcrew...hmmm.... didn't your "two friends" on the east side that you've "known for 20 years" explain the differences to you?
nostradamus
Veteran
- Dec 7, 2004
- 2,038
- 0
AWA320
Veteran
In other words in true political form " i have no knowledge of that senator" Please I have my answer and so does the NMB good luck with that my friend. I see you clearly now coward to the very end which explains broke, bankrupt and needed a bailout in order to survive. Like the titanic this ship too shall sink as a result of overwhelming stupidity...
- May 8, 2007
- 3,146
- 3,236
HUH????!!! First you tell us we're not man enough to post a denial. So I post it and what do I get? I'm a coward and you're going to the NMB??
And you're the one who claims others use you're avatar when you're the only one I can find on the ALPA forum that uses it. You are sick and need help. ALPA substance abuse program won't help you, I'm afraid.
E
EastUS
Guest
Whew! AWA320...the more I read here....well....that sadly seems to be a very viable possibility.....sigh. :blink:
I believe that the "ship" you're really referencing is Alpa though....
- May 8, 2007
- 3,146
- 3,236
Solidarity, HUH. Didn't know your child representative (calvin) peeing on fellow pilots was anything more than a scab issue peeing on labor. That would explain your "brothers" journeys "down under". At least the backside view of your "character" provides us your new handle.....a$$. is This moronic debate by you is only exasperated by your true sense of alleigience. Your playschool tools await you "Captain".
AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Jul 18, 2007
- 1,513
- 0
Ignorance is bliss, isn't it? I guess you want to deny the recent rumor that ALPA shills are canvassing the westies in search of the "turncoats" who sent in cards. BTW. We have received cards from new west guys who didn't send in one before. I really want to see how you're going to handle this. Especially how you coerce your own pilot constituents to remain all things ALPA.
The fact is that its all hearsay, furthermore, sending a card is a personal choice and so is voting. I sent a card, but I sure don't know how I'm going to vote. I still haven't heard a valid argument without bias. Though I am almost sure that cool, collected heads will prevail once the general populations is voting in the privacy of their own home....be ware of extremes and slanted reasoning. I would like to hear how the west pilots are willing to address our issues, but I would also like to hear USAPA come up with an original argument.
AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Jul 18, 2007
- 1,513
- 0
Fellow pilot,
As you know, USAPA’s law firm, Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen, has over 40 years of labor law experience, and with the assistance and guidance of the Seham law firm, the American pilots successfully extricated themselves from ALPA, forming the Allied Pilots Association.
Very soon, we anticipate writing to Lee Seham, USAPA lead counsel, and telling him that the US Airways pilots “owe their new found quality of life to your generosity and belief that a bunch of rabble-rousers could, in fact, better their lives.†Those are not yet our words, but we ask that you remember them. In fact, rather than take our word, as the election rapidly approaches we thought you might be interested to know what others have written about USAPA’s law firm, Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen.
Perhaps unknown to some, a few years ago the former America West pilots also became very dissatisfied with the representation they were receiving from ALPA, and endeavored to decertify ALPA on AWA property. John McIlevenna, current AWA MEC Chairman, was at one time so committed to “the cause you are currently engaged†(replacing ALPA), that they “even used the same law firm that you are using.â€1 (McIlevenna was interim Secretary-Treasurer and one of the organizers of the AWAPA, an independent, in-house union designed to replace ALPA on former America West Property.)
By McIlevenna’s own description, when the AWA pilots formed the America West Airlines Pilots Association (AWAPA), they were fully committed to replacing ALPA on America West property, to the extent that they “had a budget, interim elected representatives and officers,â€1 and “generated thousands of pages of mailings.â€1 Clearly, by the level of commitment demonstrated, the AWAPA also chose the very best, most experienced and reputable law firm they could find; they chose Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen.
1 McIlevenna to Bradford letter, November 6, 2007 http://1.usairlinepilots.org/AWA_MEC_letter.htm
When the Continental pilots decided to organize, they also chose the services of Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen. The Independent Association of Continental Pilots (IACP) Rene Minjares, first IACP president and later Secretary Treasurer, sent his thoughts on the services rendered by USAPA’s law firm:
I would suggest you click on the link and read the letters.
http://1.usairlinepilots.org/What_others_h...As_law_firm.htm
As you know, USAPA’s law firm, Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen, has over 40 years of labor law experience, and with the assistance and guidance of the Seham law firm, the American pilots successfully extricated themselves from ALPA, forming the Allied Pilots Association.
Very soon, we anticipate writing to Lee Seham, USAPA lead counsel, and telling him that the US Airways pilots “owe their new found quality of life to your generosity and belief that a bunch of rabble-rousers could, in fact, better their lives.†Those are not yet our words, but we ask that you remember them. In fact, rather than take our word, as the election rapidly approaches we thought you might be interested to know what others have written about USAPA’s law firm, Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen.
Perhaps unknown to some, a few years ago the former America West pilots also became very dissatisfied with the representation they were receiving from ALPA, and endeavored to decertify ALPA on AWA property. John McIlevenna, current AWA MEC Chairman, was at one time so committed to “the cause you are currently engaged†(replacing ALPA), that they “even used the same law firm that you are using.â€1 (McIlevenna was interim Secretary-Treasurer and one of the organizers of the AWAPA, an independent, in-house union designed to replace ALPA on former America West Property.)
By McIlevenna’s own description, when the AWA pilots formed the America West Airlines Pilots Association (AWAPA), they were fully committed to replacing ALPA on America West property, to the extent that they “had a budget, interim elected representatives and officers,â€1 and “generated thousands of pages of mailings.â€1 Clearly, by the level of commitment demonstrated, the AWAPA also chose the very best, most experienced and reputable law firm they could find; they chose Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen.
1 McIlevenna to Bradford letter, November 6, 2007 http://1.usairlinepilots.org/AWA_MEC_letter.htm
When the Continental pilots decided to organize, they also chose the services of Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen. The Independent Association of Continental Pilots (IACP) Rene Minjares, first IACP president and later Secretary Treasurer, sent his thoughts on the services rendered by USAPA’s law firm:
I would suggest you click on the link and read the letters.
http://1.usairlinepilots.org/What_others_h...As_law_firm.htm
AWA320
Veteran
You personally didn't do it but you can not state that it didn't happen now can you! Where is Bradford on the issue?? You're correct I am sick it's called east's diease you can only catch it by getting in bed with usair now we're all infected by you!!!
AWA320
Veteran
Funny thing is I haven't done a dam thing, I don't have too. You see they know as I that you can do nothing for the group as a whole. They too know and understand that law suits would begin on day one. They too know and understand that you have a snowball's chance in hell of getting the company to invoke agency shop when 1900 pilots refuse to pay you dues monies. They all know and understand so there is nothing I have to do but sit and watch. Solidarity?? Watch it as Parker and the other managers cash out and you finally get what you should have gotton in 05 UNEMPLOYED!!
AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Jul 18, 2007
- 1,513
- 0
FYI:
MEC Chairman’s Message
January 26, 2008
(And some additional thoughts to ponder, from a reliable source)
This is MEC Chairman Jack Stephan with a Chairman's message to the pilots for Saturday, January 26th.
This past week, your union has been involved in several activities, addressing many issues that are of importance to you.
On Tuesday, the Council 90 officers held an informational meeting in Charlotte. This briefing was well attended, and it gave our pilots the chance to talk to the CLT reps, MEC Officers, ALPA staff and advisors, and several of our MEC committee chairmen. It also gave me the chance to talk to many pilots—both ALPA and USAPA supporters, face to face. It is always good to get our important issues right out on the table. As I have stated many times, I respect the right of pilots to choose their union representation. However, when making a decision that will have such far reaching effects on your pay, benefits, your working conditions, and ALPA’s current efforts to reach consensual modifications to the Nicolau Award that would survive future mergers, it's crucial that you receive and analyze all the information required in making the right decision. Too much is at stake to rely on rumors—you need the facts, and plenty of pilots were on hand Tuesday in CLT to get the facts and talk about your concerns.
Not much needs to be said here. Anyone who attended needed only one look at Chris Beebe’s demeanor to understand how distressed ALPA is about the upcoming representational election.
Rumors are what lead me now to talk about some very serious misinformation that was recently posted on the US Airways pilots web board alleging that ALPA attorney Jeffrey Small had stated that if USAPA is voted in and the Nicolau Award has not been implemented, that the Nicolau Award will not survive.
It really doesn’t matter what any ALPA attorney said or did not say. Our history is littered with examples of what happens when our pilot group relies on the advice of ALPA attorneys and advisors. They have steered us wrong time and time again.
This information is legally inaccurate and the subsequent web board posts have been very misleading. ALPA attorney Jeffrey Small not only denies ever making such a statement, he also states very clearly that: “A change in union representation does not nullify or modify the Nicolau Award, regardless of which union serves as the bargaining representative.â€
The most likely result if USAPA or any bargaining agent attempted negotiations with the Company to mitigate some of the effects of the Nicolau Award would be to secure some protective contract language; protective language that would some day be amendable. I’m sure you all share my skepticism over the permanency of any such contractual fixes. That is why the ALPA process is seeking consensual solutions with the AWA pilots that can be made a permanent part of the Award itself.
This is where Jack displays the depth of desperation to which Team Herndon has descended.
To listen to this convoluted advice from ALPA attorneys, USAPA’s protection language would someday become amendable. However, Team Herndon’s protection language will be permanent. Why the difference? It must be due to the 1.95% dues payments. Go, Team Herndon.
You can read what ALPA's legal counsel has to say about the renegotiation of seniority lists under the January 13th entry of What's New. It has also been emailed out to all pilots.
We also have noticed that the ALPA attorneys are not speaking at all about H. R. 2764, page 539. The signing into law of this legislation has serious ramifications.
Also this week, as reported on the code-a-phone, the US Airways MEC three-man panel, made up of Garland Jones, Don Iorio, and Rocco Spartano, met with their AWA Steering Committee counterparts in Las Vegasand determined that sufficient common ground exists to continue discussions. With both Steering Committees agreeing upon protocols and rules of engagement, they have now agreed to meet in an extended negotiating lock–down session that will begin next week for substantive discussions in order to address the issues of importance to both pilot groups.
Yawn…Did any of our pilots really think that Jack and Team Herndon were really sending in the GDR to “merely explore every opportunity?†Anyone who has been paying attention for the past five years understands the Cramdown Express has left the station. It will soon be arriving on Track 4, uncomfortably close to the date of the representational election.
Relative to the Steering Committee, I would like to address some confusion that may exist about previous MEC resolutions and how they relate to our current Steering Committee activities. Our Negotiating Committee members, who are also JNC members, are offering advice and support to the Steering Committee as is our Merger Committee. To ensure that our Steering Committee is not restrained in any way during this process, they enjoy full access to the expertise and technical knowledge of any and all of our committees, including all of ALPA National’s resources. This process is simply too important not to provide our Steering Committee with everything they need to arrive at a solution.
What he is trying to say in “Herdon-speak,†is they are using the GDR to bypass the standing MEC resolution to not re-enter the JNC process until the East receives pay parity. Why restrain someone who is doing the bidding of our masters in Herndon?
If an agreement is reached by the two Steering Committees that results in a potential comprehensive counter proposal to management, that proposal would first have to be accepted by both MECs for JNC negotiations to resume. And consistent with our past resolutions, that counterproposal would not only have to adequately address our issues with the Nicolau Award, but parity and retroactive pay as well. If the proposal is found to be acceptable, our MEC could then, through resolution, re-assign our Negotiating Committee members back to JNC duties in order to engage in JNC negotiations with management.
Does anyone doubt the JNC will be back negotiating some way, some how before the end of a representational election?
Wake up, Jack. We have.
Later next week, AWA MEC Chairman John McIlvenna and I will send all AAA and AWA pilots a letter that outlines the process both Steering Committees will be engaging in and explains the communications protocols that both sides have already agreed to.
Expect the ALPA attorneys’ assistance in referencing some obscure protocol to justify moving forward. The US Airways MEC can’t do this alone.
I'm pleased to say that both the AAA and AWA MECs are supporting this process, as is ALPA National, both financially and through their considerable technical resources. With the advent of these talks, we are entering an important stage for both pilot groups, and it's necessary to give this process every chance to succeed. This may very well be our last chance to address our seniority and contract concerns in a consensual manner.
I smell Trojan Pig on the grill. Notice the preparatory phrases, “…give this process every chance to succeed…†and, “…last chance to address…?â€
Been there, been screwed by that, got the t-shirt.
Yesterday, MEC Vice Chairman, Kim Snider, met with ALPA’s Merger Policy Review Committee. Kim spent a considerable amount of time detailing his experience with mergers as well as explaining how current policy could be improved. The Committee has also asked for my input and I will be meeting with them next month as well as attending a meeting called by Captain Prater of the Chairmen of the largest MECs in ALPA to discuss the current trends and events in industry consolidation.
Jack, do you think a single US Airways pilot (outside of the ACPC) really cares that Kim “Give-away parity†Snider is closing the barn door now?
Jack, wake up! The horse is long gone, and it was Team Herndon who held the barn door for him!!
There is no doubt that things could unfold rather quickly, so continue to look for the latest information in the MEC code a phones, NewsDirects, Chairman's messages, and Chairman's letters. We remain in uncharted waters but your MEC through many meetings, long hours of hard work and debate, has taken great care to chart our course. We are fully prepared and we ask that you stay informed and dismiss rumors for what they are during this process.
Yea, Jack. There IS no doubt things will unfold rather quickly. They always seem to do that with some sort of deadline. Unfortunately for Team Herndon, the membership has awakened to the reason why.
As for dismissing things, many are dismissing the supposition which Team Herndon is flinging at the US Airways pilots. Can you guess why, Jack?
MEC Chairman’s Message
January 26, 2008
(And some additional thoughts to ponder, from a reliable source)
This is MEC Chairman Jack Stephan with a Chairman's message to the pilots for Saturday, January 26th.
This past week, your union has been involved in several activities, addressing many issues that are of importance to you.
On Tuesday, the Council 90 officers held an informational meeting in Charlotte. This briefing was well attended, and it gave our pilots the chance to talk to the CLT reps, MEC Officers, ALPA staff and advisors, and several of our MEC committee chairmen. It also gave me the chance to talk to many pilots—both ALPA and USAPA supporters, face to face. It is always good to get our important issues right out on the table. As I have stated many times, I respect the right of pilots to choose their union representation. However, when making a decision that will have such far reaching effects on your pay, benefits, your working conditions, and ALPA’s current efforts to reach consensual modifications to the Nicolau Award that would survive future mergers, it's crucial that you receive and analyze all the information required in making the right decision. Too much is at stake to rely on rumors—you need the facts, and plenty of pilots were on hand Tuesday in CLT to get the facts and talk about your concerns.
Not much needs to be said here. Anyone who attended needed only one look at Chris Beebe’s demeanor to understand how distressed ALPA is about the upcoming representational election.
Rumors are what lead me now to talk about some very serious misinformation that was recently posted on the US Airways pilots web board alleging that ALPA attorney Jeffrey Small had stated that if USAPA is voted in and the Nicolau Award has not been implemented, that the Nicolau Award will not survive.
It really doesn’t matter what any ALPA attorney said or did not say. Our history is littered with examples of what happens when our pilot group relies on the advice of ALPA attorneys and advisors. They have steered us wrong time and time again.
This information is legally inaccurate and the subsequent web board posts have been very misleading. ALPA attorney Jeffrey Small not only denies ever making such a statement, he also states very clearly that: “A change in union representation does not nullify or modify the Nicolau Award, regardless of which union serves as the bargaining representative.â€
The most likely result if USAPA or any bargaining agent attempted negotiations with the Company to mitigate some of the effects of the Nicolau Award would be to secure some protective contract language; protective language that would some day be amendable. I’m sure you all share my skepticism over the permanency of any such contractual fixes. That is why the ALPA process is seeking consensual solutions with the AWA pilots that can be made a permanent part of the Award itself.
This is where Jack displays the depth of desperation to which Team Herndon has descended.
To listen to this convoluted advice from ALPA attorneys, USAPA’s protection language would someday become amendable. However, Team Herndon’s protection language will be permanent. Why the difference? It must be due to the 1.95% dues payments. Go, Team Herndon.
You can read what ALPA's legal counsel has to say about the renegotiation of seniority lists under the January 13th entry of What's New. It has also been emailed out to all pilots.
We also have noticed that the ALPA attorneys are not speaking at all about H. R. 2764, page 539. The signing into law of this legislation has serious ramifications.
Also this week, as reported on the code-a-phone, the US Airways MEC three-man panel, made up of Garland Jones, Don Iorio, and Rocco Spartano, met with their AWA Steering Committee counterparts in Las Vegasand determined that sufficient common ground exists to continue discussions. With both Steering Committees agreeing upon protocols and rules of engagement, they have now agreed to meet in an extended negotiating lock–down session that will begin next week for substantive discussions in order to address the issues of importance to both pilot groups.
Yawn…Did any of our pilots really think that Jack and Team Herndon were really sending in the GDR to “merely explore every opportunity?†Anyone who has been paying attention for the past five years understands the Cramdown Express has left the station. It will soon be arriving on Track 4, uncomfortably close to the date of the representational election.
Relative to the Steering Committee, I would like to address some confusion that may exist about previous MEC resolutions and how they relate to our current Steering Committee activities. Our Negotiating Committee members, who are also JNC members, are offering advice and support to the Steering Committee as is our Merger Committee. To ensure that our Steering Committee is not restrained in any way during this process, they enjoy full access to the expertise and technical knowledge of any and all of our committees, including all of ALPA National’s resources. This process is simply too important not to provide our Steering Committee with everything they need to arrive at a solution.
What he is trying to say in “Herdon-speak,†is they are using the GDR to bypass the standing MEC resolution to not re-enter the JNC process until the East receives pay parity. Why restrain someone who is doing the bidding of our masters in Herndon?
If an agreement is reached by the two Steering Committees that results in a potential comprehensive counter proposal to management, that proposal would first have to be accepted by both MECs for JNC negotiations to resume. And consistent with our past resolutions, that counterproposal would not only have to adequately address our issues with the Nicolau Award, but parity and retroactive pay as well. If the proposal is found to be acceptable, our MEC could then, through resolution, re-assign our Negotiating Committee members back to JNC duties in order to engage in JNC negotiations with management.
Does anyone doubt the JNC will be back negotiating some way, some how before the end of a representational election?
Wake up, Jack. We have.
Later next week, AWA MEC Chairman John McIlvenna and I will send all AAA and AWA pilots a letter that outlines the process both Steering Committees will be engaging in and explains the communications protocols that both sides have already agreed to.
Expect the ALPA attorneys’ assistance in referencing some obscure protocol to justify moving forward. The US Airways MEC can’t do this alone.
I'm pleased to say that both the AAA and AWA MECs are supporting this process, as is ALPA National, both financially and through their considerable technical resources. With the advent of these talks, we are entering an important stage for both pilot groups, and it's necessary to give this process every chance to succeed. This may very well be our last chance to address our seniority and contract concerns in a consensual manner.
I smell Trojan Pig on the grill. Notice the preparatory phrases, “…give this process every chance to succeed…†and, “…last chance to address…?â€
Been there, been screwed by that, got the t-shirt.
Yesterday, MEC Vice Chairman, Kim Snider, met with ALPA’s Merger Policy Review Committee. Kim spent a considerable amount of time detailing his experience with mergers as well as explaining how current policy could be improved. The Committee has also asked for my input and I will be meeting with them next month as well as attending a meeting called by Captain Prater of the Chairmen of the largest MECs in ALPA to discuss the current trends and events in industry consolidation.
Jack, do you think a single US Airways pilot (outside of the ACPC) really cares that Kim “Give-away parity†Snider is closing the barn door now?
Jack, wake up! The horse is long gone, and it was Team Herndon who held the barn door for him!!
There is no doubt that things could unfold rather quickly, so continue to look for the latest information in the MEC code a phones, NewsDirects, Chairman's messages, and Chairman's letters. We remain in uncharted waters but your MEC through many meetings, long hours of hard work and debate, has taken great care to chart our course. We are fully prepared and we ask that you stay informed and dismiss rumors for what they are during this process.
Yea, Jack. There IS no doubt things will unfold rather quickly. They always seem to do that with some sort of deadline. Unfortunately for Team Herndon, the membership has awakened to the reason why.
As for dismissing things, many are dismissing the supposition which Team Herndon is flinging at the US Airways pilots. Can you guess why, Jack?
- Status
