ALPA/USAPA Topic for week of 1/24 to 1/31

[AWA320]

Solidarity, HUH. Didn't know your child representative (calvin) peeing on fellow pilots was anything more than a scab issue peeing on labor. That would explain your "brothers" journeys "down under". At least the backside view of your "character" provides us your new handle.....a$$. is This moronic debate by you is only exasperated by your true sense of alleigience. Your playschool tools await you "Captain".

Nothing you usapa clowns say will ever make a bit of difference to us on the west side of town. You have got some set on you making a statement like that!! USAir was all but dead before this transaction DEAD!! Your career gets a boost at the expense of my career and I should bow and give you more?? No my uninformed friend it is you and your arguement that is moronic. We in the west are willing to watch this ship sink in order to make you own up to your responsibilities. You want take it down then we on for the ride but we go down together!! USAir gone for good would suit me just fine. Yup I would have to start over elsewhere but start over I will do just as long as you and your pathatic position are unemployed. Sometimes the best way to rid yourself of pests is to destroy everyting and rebuild.

 

[AWA320]

Quite an accusation from a person that represents AWA alpa. You sound so desperate.

What makes you think I represent anything other than your being responsible for your actions??

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Funny thing is I haven't done a dam thing, I don't have too. You see they know as I that you can do nothing for the group as a whole. They too know and understand that law suits would begin on day one. They too know and understand that you have a snowball's chance in hell of getting the company to invoke agency shop when 1900 pilots refuse to pay you dues monies. They all know and understand so there is nothing I have to do but sit and watch. Solidarity?? Watch it as Parker and the other managers cash out and you finally get what you should have gotton in 05 UNEMPLOYED!!

This also works both ways. You may not have done it either, but you can't say for certain that it didn't happen. 3200 cards know full well what is at stake. Stay with ALPA and continue with the utterly useless Constitution and ByLaws and self serving objectives or change for a union that has only one constituency. Your participation is solely up to you.

 

[kubotapilot]

Man,

I am the definition of lurker but you sure are an interesting entity...

I'm not sure if you have insurance, but I would recommend turning over your insurance id card and calling the mental / and or substance abuse hotline.

Best of luck to you chap...

Nothing you usapa clowns say will ever make a bit of difference to us on the west side of town. You have got some set on you making a statement like that!! USAir was all but dead before this transaction DEAD!! Your career gets a boost at the expense of my career and I should bow and give you more?? No my uninformed friend it is you and your arguement that is moronic. We in the west are willing to watch this ship sink in order to make you own up to your responsibilities. You want take it down then we on for the ride but we go down together!! USAir gone for good would suit me just fine. Yup I would have to start over elsewhere but start over I will do just as long as you and your pathatic position are unemployed. Sometimes the best way to rid yourself of pests is to destroy everyting and rebuild.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Nothing you usapa clowns say will ever make a bit of difference to us on the west side of town. You have got some set on you making a statement like that!! USAir was all but dead before this transaction DEAD!! Your career gets a boost at the expense of my career and I should bow and give you more?? No my uninformed friend it is you and your arguement that is moronic. We in the west are willing to watch this ship sink in order to make you own up to your responsibilities. You want take it down then we on for the ride but we go down together!! USAir gone for good would suit me just fine. Yup I would have to start over elsewhere but start over I will do just as long as you and your pathatic position are unemployed. Sometimes the best way to rid yourself of pests is to destroy everyting and rebuild.

You better get some help. Your scortched earth policy will be lead by the likes of Jonny Mac and you. Facts are facts.....however, dementia seems to definitely cloud your emotions.

With the new hires coming it shouldn't be long to get them up to speed so we can get you the relief you so obviously deserve and have "earned".

How is that lawsuit coming? We'll be voting soon.

 

[PHLBUS]

It’s interesting. Besides 5 people twisting and using misinformation to suit their point no one has had a rational, non-emotional argument....

 

[end_of_alpa]

Quite an accusation from a person that represents AWA alpa. You sound so desperate.

Glad you said it. He's picking on me too much and I need some relief. Can I cry on your shoulder??

 

[AAA73Pilot]

We in the west are willing to watch this ship sink in order to make you own up to your responsibilities. You want take it down then we on for the ride but we go down together!! USAir gone for good would suit me just fine. Yup I would have to start over elsewhere but start over I will do just as long as you and your pathatic position are unemployed. Sometimes the best way to rid yourself of pests is to destroy everyting and rebuild.

Are you suggesting Armageddon? I think you would have a lot of your own people disagreeing with you. It's amazing what desperate people will say or do. At least most of us can collect full PBGC to supplement our next job if the place folds. Is that your position or the official ALPA response? Since they could be construed as one and the same.

 

[end_of_alpa]

It’s interesting. Besides 5 people twisting and using misinformation to suit their point no one has had a rational, non-emotional argument....

Ever tried to have that "rational, non-emotional arguement" in a brawl? Tried it your way for several months. When all you get here is "final and binding" as the only answer I get. All I can come up with in response is Death (taxes seem moot at that point). That's the only final and binding argument I can answer. Everything in between is negotiable. Try explaining that "ad infinitum" day in and day out and see where that gets you.

And there you have it...Bob's you're uncle!

 

[PHLBUS]

Point well taken. However, have you ever been in a bar-brawl and not gotten arrested or kicked out of the bar. It doesn't matter who started or who is right, you are never going to win the argument and you are probably never going to drink there again. Just remember, all we are saying is that we will change the award and all they are saying is that we can't cause its "final and binding." Well, in a way it is. That part of the process is over, what can we do now? Can we come up with a rational argument to work with the west so we can get our point across and mitigate the award? I hope this answer is YES!!!!!!!

 

[exB717Flyer]

That part of the process is over, what can we do now? Can we come up with a rational argument to work with the west so we can get our point across and mitigate the award? I hope this answer is YES!!!!!!!

The Steering Committee is meeting to determine just that. Remember, however, a negotiation involves give-and-take -- something the East has thus far not shown any interest in.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Just remember, all we are saying is that we will change the award and all they are saying is that we can't cause its "final and binding. "Well, in a way it is. That part of the process is over, what can we do now? Can we come up with a rational argument to work with the west so we can get our point across and mitigate the award? I hope this answer is YES!!!!!!!

Excuse me? You had me for a few seconds. Then the ALPA buzzwords from the ACPC just happened to pop in there. I would like nothing better than to work with the west under USAPA. It will be up to them individually if they want to participate or not. Nice try though.

 

[Phoenix]

Here let me break it down for you since want to play all stupid! In the west if I had a list LIKE USAPA DID of pilots who had not submitted cards I could log on to maestro and see their entire line for the month and could have my people in place LIKE USAPA DID before or after their trip to guilt them into signing a card JUST LIKE USAPA DID!! Now one of you man up and say you didn't use this dirty tactic, put it in print PLEASE!!!

This amounts to nothing more than a divorce lawyer asking the husband when he stopped beating his wife.

 

[Rico]

Call me lazy, but I don't feel like looking through 38 pages of posts to see if this was already mentioned,

But the argument of pro ALPA vs. Pro USAPA should come down to one important point. What union will best protect your interests in the very likely event of a future merger event.

And ALPA is no longer that union.

Being as if US Airways merges with another ALPA represented airline, then you have to follow the oh so flawed ALPA merger policy, but if ALPA is voted off the property, then you MUST MERGE at Date of Hire. It is now Federal Law (as of DEC07).

So vote to retain ALPA if you like the thought of falling further down the list, or vote in USAPA if you would prefer to merge with a Date of Hire instead.

Here's the Law that ALPA really does not want you to know about (to the point of censoring it off their own webboard).

Enjoy:

SEC. 117. LABOR INTEGRATION. (a) LABOR INTEGRATION. -With respect to any
covered transaction involving two or more covered air carriers that results
in the combination of crafts or classes that are subject to the Railway
Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 151 et seq.), sections 3 and 13 of the labor protective
provisions imposed by the Civil Aeronautics Board in the Allegheny-Mohawk
merger (as published at 59 C.A.B. 45) shall apply to the integration of
covered employees of the covered air carriers; except that- (1) if the same
collective bargaining agent represents the combining crafts or classes at
each of the covered air carriers, that collective bargaining agent's
internal policies regarding integration, if any, will not be affected by and
will supersede the requirements of this section; (i.e., if a pilot belongs
to ALPA merger policy will be one that disregards longevity entirely) and
(2) the requirements of any collective bargaining agreement that may be
applicable to the terms of integration involving covered employees of a
covered air carrier shall not be affected by the requirements of this
section as to the employees covered by that agreement, so long as those
provisions allow for the protections afforded by sections 3 and 13 of the
Allegheny- Mohawk provisions (i.e., "fair and equitable" language which
historically uses date of hire as a starting point.)

(B) DEFINITIONS. -In this section, the following definitions apply:

(1) AIR CARRIER.-The term ''air carrier'' means an air carrier that holds a
certificate issued under chapter 411 of title 49, United States Code.

(2) COVERED AIR CARRIER.-The term ''covered air carrier'' means an air
carrier that is involved in a covered transaction.

(3) COVERED EMPLOYEE.-The term ''covered employee'' means an employee
who-(A) is not a temporary employee; and (B) is a member of a craft or class
that is subject to the Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 151 et seq.).

(4) COVERED TRANSACTION. -The term ''covered transaction' ' (A) a transaction
for the combination of multiple air carriers into a single air carrier; and
which means- (B) involves the transfer of ownership or control of- (i) 50
percent or more of the equity securities (as defined in section 101 of title
11, United States Code) of an air carrier; or (ii) 50 percent or more (by
value) of the assets of the air carrier.

H. R. 2764-540

© APPLICATION. -This section shall not apply to any covered transaction
involving a covered air carrier that took place before the date of enactment
of this Act.

(d) EFFECTIVENESS OF PROVISION.-This section shall become effective on the
date of enactment of this Act and shall continue in effect in fiscal years
after fiscal year 2008.

 

[Leonidas]

Call me lazy, but I don't feel like looking through 38 pages of posts to see if this was already mentioned,

But the argument of pro ALPA vs. Pro USAPA should come down to one important point. What union will best protect your interests in the very likely event of a future merger event.

And ALPA is no longer that union.

Being as if US Airways merges with another ALPA represented airline, then you have to follow the oh so flawed ALPA merger policy, but if ALPA is voted off the property, then you MUST MERGE at Date of Hire. It is now Federal Law (as of DEC07).

So vote to retain ALPA if you like the thought of falling further down the list, or vote in USAPA if you would prefer to merge with a Date of Hire instead.

Here's the Law that ALPA really does not want you to know about (to the point of censoring it off their own webboard).

Enjoy:

SEC. 117. LABOR INTEGRATION. (a) LABOR INTEGRATION. -With respect to any
covered transaction involving two or more covered air carriers that results
in the combination of crafts or classes that are subject to the Railway
Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 151 et seq.), sections 3 and 13 of the labor protective
provisions imposed by the Civil Aeronautics Board in the Allegheny-Mohawk
merger (as published at 59 C.A.B. 45) shall apply to the integration of
covered employees of the covered air carriers; except that- (1) if the same
collective bargaining agent represents the combining crafts or classes at
each of the covered air carriers, that collective bargaining agent's
internal policies regarding integration, if any, will not be affected by and
will supersede the requirements of this section; (i.e., if a pilot belongs
to ALPA merger policy will be one that disregards longevity entirely) and
(2) the requirements of any collective bargaining agreement that may be
applicable to the terms of integration involving covered employees of a
covered air carrier shall not be affected by the requirements of this
section as to the employees covered by that agreement, so long as those
provisions allow for the protections afforded by sections 3 and 13 of the
Allegheny- Mohawk provisions (i.e., "fair and equitable" language which
historically uses date of hire as a starting point.)

(B) DEFINITIONS. -In this section, the following definitions apply:

(1) AIR CARRIER.-The term ''air carrier'' means an air carrier that holds a
certificate issued under chapter 411 of title 49, United States Code.

(2) COVERED AIR CARRIER.-The term ''covered air carrier'' means an air
carrier that is involved in a covered transaction.

(3) COVERED EMPLOYEE.-The term ''covered employee'' means an employee
who-(A) is not a temporary employee; and (B) is a member of a craft or class
that is subject to the Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 151 et seq.).

(4) COVERED TRANSACTION. -The term ''covered transaction' ' (A) a transaction
for the combination of multiple air carriers into a single air carrier; and
which means- (B) involves the transfer of ownership or control of- (i) 50
percent or more of the equity securities (as defined in section 101 of title
11, United States Code) of an air carrier; or (ii) 50 percent or more (by
value) of the assets of the air carrier.

H. R. 2764-540

© APPLICATION. -This section shall not apply to any covered transaction
involving a covered air carrier that took place before the date of enactment
of this Act.

(d) EFFECTIVENESS OF PROVISION.-This section shall become effective on the
date of enactment of this Act and shall continue in effect in fiscal years
after fiscal year 2008.

What kind of drugs are you on? where does the new law say doh? oh yeah it does say "binding arbitration"