ALPA/USAPA Topic for week of 1/24 to 1/31

[Elevation]

AWA pilots have worked for nothing for 20 years. Their pilots flew innocent passengers while they were legally drunk. At one time your director of ops, chief pilot and others flew drugs. doug parker has at least four alchohol incidents in the last 15 years.

By the way, doug parker is not my leader. doug parker is a drunk who jeopardized the lives of innocent citizens and their children that work hard and abide by the law on a daily basis.

If any one would like to dispute my claim, I will be glad to back this up with links to their crimes. Just ask.

Do we really need to point out the truly low points of the late USAir? A sad history filled with spots of tragedy. Move on.

 

[nostradamus]

Do we really need to point out the truly low points of the late USAir? A sad history filled with spots of tragedy. Move on.

Point them out please, this message board allows free thinking. Please provide links.

 

[end_of_alpa]

End,

Your assumption that the company would agree to disregard the Nicolau award and negotiate a list with DOH is critical to your whole argument for usapa. Do you not recall past events? Doug specifically stated that the company would not accept an integrated seniority list that they thought was not fair and equitable. The company has already accepted the Nic award and knows if they disregard it the west would sue.

Now, considering the above, is it really believable that the company would say to usapa “sure lets ignore the Nic and the west pilots, and merge the former west pilot group seniority list into the former east seniority list by DOHâ€￾?

The company will tell usapa that the seniority issue has already been settled through a process both pilot groups agreed to and that the Nicolau seniority arbitration award will determine seniority at the new US Airways. The company will do this to remain fair and equitable to ALL of the pilot group or for fear of liability if nothing else, and will not renegotiate DOH.

Why not have Bradford and Seham meet with the company and get a Memorandum of Understanding that if usapa should be successful in a representation election that the Nicolau award is not valid and will not be used for the pilot seniority list in a joint contract?

Present your legal argument to them stating it is a critical issue that the pilot group needs if a representation election is triggered to make an informed vote. That would eliminate any speculation.

Explained this all to you before. I'm not taking the bait any longer. We're having an election, we're negotiating a contract and your going to sue. We're confident our legal position will carry the day.

Let's vote.

 

[end_of_alpa]

73pilot,

Yes it is interesting. There are two separate groups with separate contracts that have to be administered and represented. You see the ALPA MEC may go away, but the identity of the group and associated rights does not. And that is where the problem remains with the proposed theories. The change in representation does not alter or merge the two groups. Just like under ALPA there will be two identifiable and separate groups with separate contracts that need to be represented and administered and ultimately merged together.

Uh, actually, it does merge the two groups. No more East/West. One craft and/or class. NMB rules. We're now single carrier since the NMB ruled last week.

"The Board finds that East and West are operating as a single transportation system for representation purposes under RLA. Accordingly, USAPA's application in File No. CR-6926 is converted to NMB Case No. R-7147."

Separate operations as required under ALPA merger policy. Single operations under single certificate and NMB ruling of single carrier status last week.

So sorry you guys don't read this stuff. Guess who's coming to dinner?

 

[Leonidas]

Uh, actually, it does merge the two groups. No more East/West. One craft and/or class. NMB rules. We're now single carrier since the NMB ruled last week.



Separate operations as required under ALPA merger policy. Single operations under single certificate and NMB ruling of single carrier status last week.

So sorry you guys don't read this stuff. Guess who's coming to dinner?

Thanks for acknowledging the obvious, usapa will inherit one airline. It's a shame seniority was decided months before you showed up.

 

[prechilill]

Uh, actually, it does merge the two groups. No more East/West. One craft and/or class. NMB rules. We're now single carrier since the NMB ruled last week.



Separate operations as required under ALPA merger policy. Single operations under single certificate and NMB ruling of single carrier status last week.

So sorry you guys don't read this stuff. Guess who's coming to dinner?

End, you are confused regarding the NMB ruling. The NMB stated that we are one pilot group. They did not, however, say that we only have one pilot contract nor did they say our two current contracts will be merged into one. The NMB stated that for representation purposes we are a single pilot group- just like under the ALPA representation yesterday, today and tomorrow, we have the same bargaining agent. If your illegitimate union is voted in, nothing will change. We will still be one pilot group with two different contracts. Hope this helps clear things up.

 

[end_of_alpa]

End, you are confused regarding the NMB ruling. The NMB stated that we are one pilot group. They did not, however, say that we only have one pilot contract nor did they say our two current contracts will be merged into one. The NMB stated that for representation purposes we are a single pilot group- just like under the ALPA representation yesterday, today and tomorrow, we have the same bargaining agent. If your illegitimate union is voted in, nothing will change. We will still be one pilot group with two different contracts. Hope this helps clear things up.

Tell you what. You believe what you believe and I believe what I believe.

I spoke with the ALPA attorneys last week as I already said in a previous post and asked them. You don't believe me. You think I'm a liar. OK. Call Cohen, Weiss and Simon. I WAS THERE!

Look, we're voting. I found out that the card count as of friday was over 2,500 HARD (no dupes) resubmitted. Their still coming in from the calling and mailing. Some don't resubmit because if they sent a hard card in and are sure they did then there is no need to resubmit.

Guys, we're having an election and according to the NMB we only need 2657 ballots for a representational vote. We'll have that and several hundred more. With the +3,100 already in the box it is a foregone conclusion.

If you do not believe these pilots won't vote their cards when the election comes you better think again.

Hopefully, USAPA will win. If ALPA remains, we'll DEFINITELY be the pariah of the industry.

The election will tell. No more debate. You think what you want. Pay parity in the East will be retroactive to last september.

 

[prechilill]

Tell you what. You believe what you believe and I believe what I believe.

I spoke with the ALPA attorneys last week as I already said in a previous post and asked them. You don't believe me. You think I'm a liar. OK. Call Cohen, Weiss and Simon. I WAS THERE!

WHere did you post that you spoke to ALPA attornerys? BTW, I never said I do not believe you spoke to ALPA attorneys.

 

[end_of_alpa]

WHere did you post that you spoke to ALPA attornerys? BTW, I never said I do not believe you spoke to ALPA attorneys.

here is the link in this thread.

http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...st&p=566050

 

[luvn737s]

WHere did you post that you spoke to ALPA attornerys? BTW, I never said I do not believe you spoke to ALPA attorneys.

But he didn't speak to Abrams, and evidently, neither did Seham. I would be interested to hear Jeff Freunds response to those same questions. (I'm sorry, he didn't say he spoke to Abrams).

 

[Phoenix]

here is the link in this thread.

http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...st&p=566050

One pilot group. One vote on the new contract. Secret ballot.... True red, white, and blue democracy.

Excellent sir.

 

[prechilill]

One pilot group. One vote on the new contract. Secret ballot.... True red, white, and blue democracy.

Excellent sir.

One pilot union, two pilot groups voting on a new contract (according to our transition agreement). Nothing changes in a union except the name and the leaders. Feel free to believe otherwise...

 

[Phoenix]

One pilot union, two pilot groups voting on a new contract (according to our transition agreement). Nothing changes in a union except the name and the leaders. Feel free to believe otherwise...

Dear friend,

In the representational election you will not be voting on "changing a name or the leaders." You are first and foremost voting on the legal instrument that establishes the union name and authorizes your leaders to exist---namely the constitution and bylaws.

Your friend,

Phoenix

 

[prechilill]

Dear friend,

In the representational election you will not be voting on "changing a name or the leaders." You are first and foremost voting on the legal instrument that establishes the union name and authorizes your leaders to exist---namely the constitution and bylaws.

Your friend,

Phoenix

You must be talking to End of ALpa because he seems to believe a "vote" is going to change everything. I agree with you, however, a vote for USAPA is simply a vote on the "legal instrument that establishes the union name and authorizes our leaders to exist". Phoenix, you are absolutely 100% correct. The work we have to reconcile the two pilot groups still remains after the vote. Finally, one of you easties is getting it!

 

[Phoenix]

You must be talking to End of ALpa because he seems to believe a "vote" is going to change everything. I agree with you, however, a vote for USAPA is simply a vote on the "legal instrument that establishes the union name and authorizes our leaders to exist". Phoenix, you are absolutely 100% correct. The work we have to reconcile the two pilot groups still remains after the vote. Finally, one of you easties is getting it!

The constitution and bylaws that is selected by the pilots in the representational election (in addition to settling the name of the union and the authorization of leaders) will also determine the rights and responsibilities of the pilots in the ratification of any pilot contract.