ALPA/USAPA Topic for week of 1/24 to 1/31

[sharktooth]

Your assumption that the company would agree to disregard the Nicolau award and negotiate a list with DOH is critical to your whole argument for usapa. Do you not recall past events? Doug specifically stated that the company would not accept an integrated seniority list that they thought was not fair and equitable. The company has already accepted the Nic award and knows if they disregard it the west would sue.

End never said the company would agree to disregard the Nicolau award. Contrary to your assertions about Dougies comments, the company has no say in any ordering of the list. Dougie must accept any list, whether he thinks it fair or not. He knows this. I cannot figure out why the few of you cannot. After years of stealing from the employees of AWA/US, you guys still do not get it and like battered spouses, keep making excuses for management's bad behavior.

The second part of your first sentence is equally silly. A union does not "negotiate" with a company over seniority lists, period. It is purely an "internal" union matter, between two groups of pilots, in this case, and the governing union.

and, if the company uses a list that does not include Nicolau, what are you going to sue the company over? Since the company can only use "the list" after a merger agreement is concluded, and no merger agreement can be concluded that contains the "nic", your lawsuit would be laughable. Sue away!

 

[AAA73Pilot]

There is no incentive for the company to negotiate a new transition agreement with U-SAPs since they have the majority of the synergies they were seeking. If they agree that the current transition agreement has expired, they need only open bases for each side in the opposing hubs and balance their fleet and staffing needs that way, should U-SAPs win.

Might I suggest you rethink this. In the current air of merger mania, do you really think Doug would let this failure continue? He has to prove he can pull off a successful merger before anyone would give him money to join the merger fray again. Besides, right now there are quite a few unhappy investors.

Finally, if they have the synergies you say, why would they want to add to their costs by running parallel bases? To quote another poster, a never ending source of amusement. Keep trying, by then we'll be ready to vote.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

73pilot,
Yes it is interesting. There are two separate groups with separate contracts that have to be administered and represented. You see the ALPA MEC may go away, but the identity of the group and associated rights does not. And that is where the problem remains with the proposed theories. The change in representation does not alter or merge the two groups. Just like under ALPA there will be two identifiable and separate groups with separate contracts that need to be represented and administered and ultimately merged together.

While I agree things won't happen overnight, Doug is on record as saying he will "Negotiate with whoever the bargaining agent" is. If he truly wants to merge the 2 groups, then I will proffer a new renegotiated TA would be the first order of business. At least the pilots will have the right to vote on it this time.

 

[Leonidas]

While I agree things won't happen overnight, Doug is on record as saying he will "Negotiate with whoever the bargaining agent" is. If he truly wants to merge the 2 groups, then I will proffer a new renegotiated TA would be the first order of business. At least the pilots will have the right to vote on it this time.

BTW besides DOH, what kind of contract is usapa going to deliver, after all what good is seniority when you are living under loa 93?

 

[Low&away]

East annual dues to ALPA national 10 million.

Amount back to East to run MEC 4 million.

These are round numbers but accurate. Now I imagine USAPA will be able to run the union just fine on dues coming in and will certainly decrease the percentage when compared to ALPA.

As far as how much they have at this moment: Let's just say more than enough to get the union up and running. This election will be very interesting. ALPA is in very deep crap on this property and knows it. USAPA has a very solid chance at becoming the new agent on the property.

And make no mistake, USAPA will represent the pilots, ALL pilots, of US Airways with dignity and professionalism and retake the profession on this property. When you see who will be involved on the committees the East will feel very comfortable with what has taken place and continues to take place as USAPA takes form and structure.

This should have happened a long time ago and it will be a blueprint for the pilots of this country who are tired of the chicken**** representation they receive from ALPA.

pilot

A buddy of mine is a LEC ALPA rep for another carrier. We started talking about ALPA National pro's and con's. He said to understand ALPA you have to realize its not a union but a bank. However they take in more than they pay out. Not a good Bank mind you but a Bank none the less. He said that an in house union would be far more efficient and you would control the Bank. He also said there is no downside to leaving ALPA because once you leave you can always go back the way Continental did. And ALPA will lick your boots and forget the past because money is what they are there for. ALPA is a poorly run Bank.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

BTW besides DOH, what kind of contract is usapa going to deliver, after all what good is seniority when you are living under loa 93?

hhmmm my crystal ball says........whatever gets negotiated and then ratified. Lots of previous posts about seniority and LOA93. I can live with it for as long as it takes. So back at you.......What kind of contract can ALPA deliver?

 

[88 B.T.D.]

......What kind of contract can ALPA deliver?

Speaking of ALPA, I got the call from Wilson today with data for the BRC to use in negotiations/discussions. After finishing I was asked for my opinions of ALPA. One thing I told them was that I am currently disenfranchised by ALPA. Due to military leave status, ALPA won't let me vote, but the NMB will.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

ALPA won't let me vote, but the NMB will.

The most important vote. What a novel concept.

 

[luvn737s]

Might I suggest you rethink this. In the current air of merger mania, do you really think Doug would let this failure continue? He has to prove he can pull off a successful merger before anyone would give him money to join the merger fray again. Besides, right now there are quite a few unhappy investors.

Doug has already stated that future mergers will be equity rather than debt based. If it continues to make money, he'll do whatever it takes to keep costs where they are.

 

[luvn737s]

While I agree things won't happen overnight, Doug is on record as saying he will "Negotiate with whoever the bargaining agent" is. If he truly wants to merge the 2 groups, then I will proffer a new renegotiated TA would be the first order of business. At least the pilots will have the right to vote on it this time.

Doug wouldn't have bothered with a TA to begin with except that it was necessary to begin the process which would yield the promised synergies. Now he has them. And what will USAPA promise Doug to get him to come back to the table?

I'm sure he sees through USAPA. Everyone else does.

 

[luvn737s]

Speaking of ALPA, I got the call from Wilson today with data for the BRC to use in negotiations/discussions. After finishing I was asked for my opinions of ALPA. One thing I told them was that I am currently disenfranchised by ALPA. Due to military leave status, ALPA won't let me vote, but the NMB will.

What's USAPA's stand on non-working, non-dues-paying members voting?

 

[Low&away]

Nicolau won't stand where? And what does an election have to do with our combined seniority list? Do you actually believe you can just vote away an arbitrated decision? (That last one is a yes/no question.)


I don't know I am not clairvoyant. Sorry! I do not possess the powers to see the future. But I too have a question.
The Nicolau award is a product of a union resolution process right. Are there not four parties which codify that process. USAirways, ALPA National, AWA and AAA. Each party must uphold the award and are bound by it if all parties sign off on what is essentially a binding contract.
I think thats correct. After all this binding award is not yet binding because there is not total agreement. So here is my question. If the award is not triggered by necessary agreement and one of the parties has been rejected in a representational election who has the authority to impose a seniority contract that was never codified? This I do know. When your are on short side of redefined seniority there is no downside in removing the party which agrees to the redefinition.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

What's USAPA's stand on non-working, non-dues-paying members voting?

Asked and answered over and over and over. I am curious though, why do you keep asking? You can't be that forgetful, can you?

It just seems that you are working from a revolving script and this question just seemed to come around again.

 

[Phoenix]

MEC Chairman’s message.

In summary, the Blue Ribbon committee (comprised of three pilots each from AWA and AAA) is preparing the “magic fix†by negotiating to amend the contract, and supposedly Nicolau too, into one pretty new counter proposal to the company. (ALPA did not attach the company proposal they speak of for our consideration. Perhaps ALPA has us negotiating with ourselves again?)

No need to read the details because ALPA has started using all the important buzzwords that tell us exactly what is up.

These are the important telltale phrases when YOU are about to be bent over the chair for ALPA:

1) “This may very well be our last chance…â€

2) “There is no doubt that things could unfold rather quickly…â€

3) We are “in uncharted watersâ€â€¦





So I gather that:

1) ALPA is in a panic that time is running out and thinks we should be in a panic along with them.
2) They are going to move out quickly, with or without us, or even in opposition of themselves (Remember they passed a unanimous resolution that they won't engage in negotiations until pay parity right?)
3) And they admit they have no clue of where the heck they are going...supposedly. (These are not unchartered waters. ALPA has sent us down this river toward Niagara Falls in a canoe without a paddle many times before. How come ALPA keeps calling these same waters "unchartered waters"? They look very familiar to us! Niagara dead ahead!

ALPA is like a one trick mechanical pony at the fair. After awhile one looses interest in shoving more quarters in the slot.

 

[nostradamus]

Thanks for the chart. AWA was the airline in the past that was keeping wages depressed but now we can thank US Airways East for leading the charge to the bottom. So Nos exactly when does it become a "crime" then if 20 years qualifies but 2 years does not? The worst part is that the Easties aren't even negotiating to raise that number. Thnx for taking the torch from the West and running with it.

BTW if you work for LCC then unfortunately ole Doug is your leader too.

AWA pilots have worked for nothing for 20 years. Their pilots flew innocent passengers while they were legally drunk. At one time your director of ops, chief pilot and others flew drugs. doug parker has at least four alchohol incidents in the last 15 years.

By the way, doug parker is not my leader. doug parker is a drunk who jeopardized the lives of innocent citizens and their children that work hard and abide by the law on a daily basis.

If any one would like to dispute my claim, I will be glad to back this up with links to their crimes. Just ask.