ALPA/USAPA East Topic for week of 11/30-12/6

[AAA73Pilot]

It' s hard to argue with logic like that.

You can't, so why bother?

 

[exB717Flyer]

They profess uncertainty as to whether East and West US Airways might now be a single transportation system and would like a few weeks to study the issue. Their letter to the NMB is posted on the USAPA web site along with our attorney’s response. It’s a good read.

Your attorney responded, "ALPA's request is a transparent delaying tactic that only serves to subvert the pilots' right under federal labor law to select their union representative in a timely, democratic election." Of course it's a delaying tactic. Just like the AAA MEC's lawsuit against the AWA MEC is. Just like USAPA's goal regarding the implementation of the Nicoalu Award is. You don't get to claim any high-ground here. While Single Carrier Status is inevitable I have no problem with anything that (legally) delays and frustrates your malevolent efforts.

 

[EastUS]

.....I have no problem with anything that (legally) delays and frustrates your malevolent efforts.

OK. The "moral high ground's" firmly established then. Perhaps it's time to at least begin to consider methods by which to eventually work all this mess out.

 

[Elevation]

OK. The "moral high ground's" firmly established then. Perhaps it's time to at least begin to consider methods by which to eventually work all this mess out.

Amen brother.

 

[SegmentKing]

exB717, after what happened with you guys at TWA, i'm surprised you aren't more livid with ALPA than the East guys...

you've seen all of ALPA's incompetent moves yet you STILL support them?

I bet when the economy turns and ALPA gives up your benefits without a vote, you may change your tune a bit.

but then again, they already let you get pushed under a bus.

 

[exB717Flyer]

exB717, after what happened with you guys at TWA, i'm surprised you aren't more livid with ALPA than the East guys...

Then you haven't read anything else I've written. I'm a pragmatist. Even though I'm part of a class-action lawsuit against ALPA I rejoined upon getting hired at AWA. It would not have served my purposes not to. The vice-chair of the AWA Merger Committee is another ex-TWAer but he had gone into bad standing by stopping his ALPA dues. He rejoined ALPA (by paying back dues) so that he could be appointed to the Committee and did an outstanding job representing our interests.

you've seen all of ALPA's incompetent moves yet you STILL support them?

When one has two bad choices one chooses the lesser.

I bet when the economy turns and ALPA gives up your benefits without a vote, you may change your tune a bit.

I'll take your bet and win big. When the economy turns south no union will perform substantially better than the others. I've been an ALPA member at three different carriers, a Teamster, and an APA member, so I can safely say they're all equally screwed-up, none better that the next. Expecting an upstart union to solve all our profession's problems is pure wishful thinking. Even so, I might still be convinced to vote in another union if it weren't dedicated to screwing me. I'd be surprised if even 1% of the AWA pilots vote for USAPA. Would you bet against that?

 

[CapnCockroach]

..and I'm sure being pragmatic, you did not demand DOH in the AA/TWA seniority integration. (Not that it would have happened). So B717, what is your best guess when Prater will hand the Nic List to AWA? Are there any known plans to force the issue on behalf of the AWA MEC?

 

[exB717Flyer]

..and I'm sure being pragmatic, you did not demand DOH in the AA/TWA seniority integration. (Not that it would have happened).

We weren't in a position to demand anything. Our proposition was basically relative seniority which, owing to the demographics of both airlines, was fairly close to DOH. We would've loved for the integration to go to binding arbitration. I can't say whether we would've gotten anything better than what the APA saw fit to impose, but at least we would've had the satisfaction of a fair process.

So B717, what is your best guess when Prater will hand the Nic List to AWA? Are there any known plans to force the issue on behalf of the AWA MEC?

We have a resolution imploring Prater to present the list but my best guess is he's going to wait until we have a TA. In other words, no time soon.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Late last week the existing bargaining agent, the day after missing their NMB filing deadline, asked the board to delay the process a few weeks. They profess uncertainty as to whether East and West US Airways might now be a single transportation system and would like a few weeks to study the issue.

Perhaps there's another side to this story afterall. I quote this from the AWA ALPA message board with permission by the author:

"What actually happened was that National filed a request for an extension at the last minute of the deadline on the 29th only after reviewing the response that was filed by the company less than three hours earlier. ALPA noted some errors and questionable assumptions in the company filing and stated as much in their request for extension. USAPA's council ignored that and essentially stated in their objection to the extension that they thought ALPA was playing the delay game on purpose. The fact is that NMB disregarded USAPA's objections and granted ALPA an extension. The new deadline for ALPA legal's reply is December 17th.

"The truth is that ALPA did not profess uncertainty to the single carrier question at all. There are, as explained in ALPA's request for an extension, some questions about what was filed that same day by US Airways (LCC). Apparently USAPA's council failed to pick up on any of the errors in the company's eleven page filing.

"One has to wonder two things: who is controlling the USAPA spin machine, and just how good is the work product of the law firm that represents them?"

 

[nostradamus]

Prater in ALPA is worried about his job, below is a link to the benefits he has, he does not want to lose this.

"BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that ALPA shall obtain a new Lincoln LS (or similar cost American/North American made automobile) for the use of the President for a two-year period to be replaced with a similar vehicle for the subsequent two years of the term of office of the President. All costs for this automobile including acquisition costs (lease or purchase), maintenance, insurance, tags and vehicle-related taxes are to be paid by the Association. ALPA shall also reimburse fuel expense related to business use."

After 911 everyone had to adjust their income. The gentlemen at ALPA, while waving the red white and blue, voted themselves more.

"Should the sum of retirement benefits from the air carrier and ALPA result in the President's retirement being less than that he or she would have received at his or her own airline had he or she not served as President, the Executive Board will adjust the retirement benefit accordingly."


ALPA takes care of its own, National ALPA that is.

 

[CapnCockroach]

US Airways MEC: Nicolau case sent back to Superior Court
Lisa Treon
12/3/2007

US Airways pilots will have their day in Superior Court.

Arnie Gentile of the US Airways ALPA Master Executive Council said in a post to pilots Saturday, “We were informed by our outside legal counsel, Roland Wilder, that Judge Sullivan ruled in our favor and remanded the case from the Federal Court back to the Superior Court of the District of Columbia, where we first filed the suit and where it is more favorable to the US Airways pilot’s position.â€￾

The “Eastâ€￾ pilots’ motion to remand took the position that the Federal Court had no jurisdiction over their lawsuit to set aside the Nicolau Award. Now that the decision has been made to hold the case in Superior Court, the union will move forward in protesting the seniority list merger made by arbitrator George Nicolau.

The ALPA-sanctioned arbitrator ruled this year that America West pilots should be ranked higher in seniority than furloughed US Airways pilots who had many more years of experience. Nicolau reasoned that because America West pilots had far better career prospects prior to the merger, they were entitled to higher post-merger expectations than their counterparts at bankrupt US Airways. For background on the ruling, FLTops.com members can search our archives.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

..and I'm sure being pragmatic, you did not demand DOH in the AA/TWA seniority integration. (Not that it would have happened). So B717, what is your best guess when Prater will hand the Nic List to AWA? Are there any known plans to force the issue on behalf of the AWA MEC?

I guess that the word "pramatist" must mean that principles don't matter, it's "all about me".

It appeared to me that the ALPA documentation should have been independent of the company. Therefore, it appears that ALPA was absolutely unprepared for the rapid response by the company. For them to use any sort of errors by the company, which in fact may not be errors at all but rather items open for interpretation or discussion, is disingenuous at best. The way the legal system works, any errors would allow a possible appeal of an award, should one be made against them, not a means of stonewalling the process.

 

[exB717Flyer]

I guess that the word "pragmatist" must mean that principles don't matter, it's "all about me".

You guessed wrong.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

You guessed wrong.

Glad to hear it.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Perhaps there's another side to this story afterall. I quote this from the AWA ALPA message board with permission by the author:

"What actually happened was that National filed a request for an extension at the last minute of the deadline on the 29th only after reviewing the response that was filed by the company less than three hours earlier. ALPA noted some errors and questionable assumptions in the company filing and stated as much in their request for extension. USAPA's council ignored that and essentially stated in their objection to the extension that they thought ALPA was playing the delay game on purpose. The fact is that NMB disregarded USAPA's objections and granted ALPA an extension. The new deadline for ALPA legal's reply is December 17th.

"The truth is that ALPA did not profess uncertainty to the single carrier question at all. There are, as explained in ALPA's request for an extension, some questions about what was filed that same day by US Airways (LCC). Apparently USAPA's council failed to pick up on any of the errors in the company's eleven page filing.

"One has to wonder two things: who is controlling the USAPA spin machine, and just how good is the work product of the law firm that represents them?"

Extensions of time are standard practice. Don't worry, the election will be here soon enough.

No spin...just FACTS. I wouldn't rely on your legal "geniuses" from your web boards. You will soon find out what the meaning of "spin" is. If ALPA is voted off the property, then ALPA legal is gone too. Only one CBA allowed per company per craft or class.