ALPA Poll for East Furloughees in Email Today

[Furloughedagain]

Yeah, forgot about that. They wouldn't even talk to me until I left the carrier I was flying for.

ALPA really seems to have trouble figuring out how to deal with members who are claiming "dual citizenship" (so to speak).

 

[careerfurloughee]

Yeah, forgot about that. They wouldn't even talk to me until I left the carrier I was flying for.

ALPA really seems to have trouble figuring out how to deal with members who are claiming "dual citizenship" (so to speak).

Until they want something from you.

 

[Furloughedagain]

True. In all seriousness though, the association needs to sit down and come up with a policy regarding how to deal with furloughed members who accept employment elsewhere.

There is obviously a need for continued access to resources and information available to furloughed pilots regardless of where they currently work.

When will they learn? If one day the furloughees return, what kind of taste will they have for the association?

Being a castaway for 4 years has definately left me with a bad taste.

 

[ItsJustAJob]

I agree....I've been "cast away" for 10 of the last 16 years. I'm now flying for PSA. Even here I have no representation. The MEC wants me out of here, so they don't represent me. The mainline MEC doesn't represent me because I don't work there anymore. So even though I pay my dues every month, I have no one in the organization working for me. Yeah, gotta love ALPA.

On the other hand, it's my own fault for sticking with this dispicable horrendous industry.

 

[pilot]

Your handle as well as your last sentence says it all.

It's not a "job", it's a profession. Management and ALPA has turned you into thinking it's "just a job". And you have fallen for it.

I apologize for my fellow aviatiors selling you down the street. Personally I voted NO but to no avail.

You have the ability to make substantial sums of money outside of this industry. But you must CHOOSE to do so. Look inside yourself and decide if you want to continue allowing management to expoloit your skills for peanuts or if you want to start building a future for yourself in a different business.

There is only one person in charge of your future. You'll see him in the mirror tonight while you're brushing your teeth.

pilot

 

[Furloughedagain]

No. It is a job. We are blue-collar workers who punch a time-clock and are paid accordingly.

We operate machinery. Nothing more. If we were to disappear tomorrow there would be thousands more machine operators lining up to do the same job -- for less pay.

The minute you get too emotionally attached to a single employer, you will find yourself bound by golden handcuffs unable - or unwilling - to look for alternatives.

 

[WSurf]

BTW, do you know a NetJet G-V Captain makes more than our 320 Captains? And a NetJet BBJ Captain makes more than me.

pilot

Chew on this too!

12 Year Captain US Airways 330---> Tops 160.00hr
12 Year Captain Delta Boeing 777-->Tops 186.00hr

Now the kicker!!
12 Year Captain SWA on a lil' Old 737--> 190.00

Hmmm, half the size.... way more money!!

 

[pilot]

No. It is a job. We are blue-collar workers who punch a time-clock and are paid accordingly.

We operate machinery. Nothing more. If we were to disappear tomorrow there would be thousands more machine operators lining up to do the same job -- for less pay.

The minute you get too emotionally attached to a single employer, you will find yourself bound by golden handcuffs unable - or unwilling - to look for alternatives.

The reason you are correct is because YOU and the thousands you speak of don't recognize what you do for a living. You truly believe it's a "job".

This "job" you speak of involves total responsibility for a "machine" worth (in my case) nearly 100 million dollars. Then they fill it with 266 people that you cannot put a price tag on. Then they pump about 25000 gallons of jet fuel into it and tell me to take the whole shebang across the North Atlantic and find Rome. Yeah, just a regular machine operator.

Of course the 4 year degree, countless hours of flight and ground insturction for the ratings, apprenticing as a freighter jock or flight instructor, the physicals, checkrides etc....... do indeed put the "job" on par with any other "blue collar" worker.

You don't get it and never will. And the boys in Tempe love guys like you.

However, your last paragraph is right on. You just don't understand the difference between a guy who drives a bulldozer and an airline pilot.

pilot

 

[careerfurloughee]

You don't get it and never will. And the boys in Tempe love guys like you.

However, your last paragraph is right on. You just don't understand the difference between a guy who drives a bulldozer and an airline pilot.

pilot

I think you both get it. The problem is that you live in two different worlds in terms of where you both were on the hiring wave. It is a career that has been prostituted down to a job. Supply and demand and all that. Pilot your seniority has just kept you insulated from the economic truth that it in the eyes of mangement it is indeed now just a job. Pilot if you believe you can't be replaced you are wrong. There are many waiting that would do your job just as safely and proficiently as you do it but for even less money. When does a career become just a job? If you had been hired in oh say 1988 or 1989 you would know the answer to that.

 

[USCREW]

[....Thanks for the well-wishes. First baby is due in less than 3 weeks, so things are going pretty well.

-FurloughedAgain...


It will be the most beautiful day of your life. Congrats

 

[pilot]

I think you both get it. The problem is that you live in two different worlds in terms of where you both were on the hiring wave. It is a career that has been prostituted down to a job. Supply and demand and all that. Pilot your seniority has just kept you insulated from the economic truth that it in the eyes of mangement it is indeed now just a job. Pilot if you believe you can't be replaced you are wrong. There are many waiting that would do your job just as safely and proficiently as you do it but for even less money. When does a career become just a job? If you had been hired in oh say 1988 or 1989 you would know the answer to that.

Insulated? How do you figure? My pension is gone, my pay is drastically recduced, my benefits are absurd. Insulated? No one in this profession is insulated. Because we, as a whole, won't stand for the profession. I fully agree my seniority has mitigated my circumstances as opposed to junior pilots, but my point is simply that the reason for the carnage is because those pilots, as well as some in my seniority refuse to stand for the profession.

Replaced? In a heartbeat. And certainly seniority has nothing to do with proficiency or safety. Although I could argue experience but that is a different subject. I know when this career became a "job". And I blame ALPA national for lacking the leadership and guts to do what needs to be done. But the union is only as strong as it's members. And 57% of the U membership won't make a stand. There is plenty of blame to go around.

Unless and until pilots stop looking at this as a "job" and make a stand for the profession, the pay and working conditions will continue to erode and selling cars or driving a bulldozer will be more lucrative than being an airline pilot.

Hell, in many cases, those two jobs are a better deal right now. And it's not management's fault. It's ours.

pilot

 

[careerfurloughee]

Pilot,

Reality is that it has become just a job. I understand what you are saying about the profession. Me and my family have sacrificed more that we should have for the proffesion. I am currently furloughed and doing very well in another field other than aviation. I doubt I would return if called back to the JOB that would be waiting. Until more pilots start voting with thier feet it will remain just a job. We are saying the same thing. I love the profession I hate the job. What would you estimate the odds are that U ALPA will ever stand up for the proffession?

 

[pilot]

Pilot,

Reality is that it has become just a job. I understand what you are saying about the profession. Me and my family have sacrificed more that we should have for the proffesion. I am currently furloughed and doing very well in another field other than aviation. I doubt I would return if called back to the JOB that would be waiting. Until more pilots start voting with thier feet it will remain just a job. We are saying the same thing. I love the profession I hate the job. What would you estimate the odds are that U ALPA will ever stand up for the proffession?

Unless they have the balls to do what you did, walk, the odds are slim to nil. It is truly a shame to hear guys I fly with tell me "this is all I know how to do". That is total bull****. What they are really saying is "this is all I want to do".

I will continue to fight the fight and try to make pilots understand they don't HAVE to work for peanuts. But until they grow some gonads I don't hold out much hope.

Good luck to you. I hope you make enough money to buy a Citation and fly it yourself. That would be the best non-reving in the world.

pilot

 

[careerfurloughee]

Unless they have the balls to do what you did, walk, the odds are slim to nil. It is truly a shame to hear guys I fly with tell me "this is all I know how to do". That is total bull****. What they are really saying is "this is all I want to do".

I will continue to fight the fight and try to make pilots understand they don't HAVE to work for peanuts. But until they grow some gonads I don't hold out much hope.

Good luck to you. I hope you make enough money to buy a Citation and fly it yourself. That would be the best non-reving in the world.

pilot

Pilot,

We are on the same page. Good luck to you as well.