Furloughees Standby for Letter From Capt. Hogg

[pilot]

You guys can blame me if you want. Plenty of blame to go around. But I know a lot of guys who make a hell of a lot more money than I do who don't fly airplanes. I started a business when I flew through Dallas the morning after BNF went belly up. I was a reserve copilot. I saw the handwriting on the wall. I am not a former BNF pilot. I spent a career preparing for what you guys are going through now. Still preparing for it. Luckily, and I mean luckily, it didn't happen to me.

Seniority is a random thing. Luck of the draw. Right place at the right time. Who hired me. Etc...........

I freely admit I was lucky. Still am. But also realistic. Ergo the other business. My job can disappear tomorrow. Just like yours did. Position on retirement age? Simple. They changed the rules by taking our pension, I support changing the rules and working longer. Delays everyones plans for 5 years. Everyone should have that option.

As far as getting to be super senior. This company is going to fly boatloads of wannabe jets feeding an extremely small number of larger jets. If you're young enough you'll get to the larger jets. If not, you won't. And the seniority integration will delay it even more.

Clinging to driftwood? Yeah, right.

Nowhere in any of my posts did I criticize anyone. Opining can be taken as criticism if what is said hits a sore spot. I imagine that is what is happening. You want to come back, have at it. I only asked why.

And the whiners berate me for even asking the question. And giving reasons why I don't think it's a good idea. My point is that we have sold you down the river. ALPA, the company, and your fellow LCC pilots.

And you are coming back for more? That's just plain stupid.

And THAT is a criticism.

pilot

 

[nostradamus]

Pilot quote

"Because my seniority number allows me to fly a schedule that fits around the business, in a heavy jet, on European routes, and all the other benefits of having seniority. If flying interfered, in the least, with what I had to do in my other endeavors I'd leave in a New York minute."

My question

Is it possible that someone who enters aviation as a pilot will eventually get to your seniority and that is what they are aspiring to?

"Because my seniority number allows me to fly a schedule that fits around the business, in a heavy jet, on European routes, and all the other benefits of having seniority. If flying interfered, in the least, with what I had to do in my other endeavors I'd leave in a New York minute."

My question

What is your position on raising the retirement age, which the previous age 60 rule helped you out greatly?

Answer my questions that I asked, we heard enough preaching from you.

 

[luvn737s]

How's that Open Time treating you mr. pilot? "One for all..." and all that crap. I think the only thing dumber than accepting a recall might be bidding international and having to listen to constant complaining about how hard it is to find good help to keep the sailboat going.

As long as the Open Time trough is open, the furloughees need not wait by the phone.

 

[careerfurloughee]

Position on retirement age? Simple. They changed the rules by taking our pension, I support changing the rules and working longer. Delays everyones plans for 5 years. Everyone should have that option.

Pilot,

You lost me there big boy. If you have done so well with your business why would you want to cling on to your airline job for another five years? I smell a hypocrit with an agenda. A few months back I said we were on the same page. Color me wrong. :down:

 

[nostradamus]

Position on retirement age? Simple. They changed the rules by taking our pension, I support changing the rules and working longer. Delays everyones plans for 5 years. Everyone should have that option.

Pilot,

You lost me there big boy. If you have done so well with your business why would you want to cling on to your airline job for another five years? I smell a hypocrit with an agenda. A few months back I said we were on the same page. Color me wrong. :down:

Good job and post. You pegged this gentleman correctly.

 

[nostradamus]

"There are plenty of "jobs" out there man. You come back here and you are setting yourself up for more heartache and crap.

And when I say "jobs" I'm not talking about flying airplanes. Do yourself a huge favor and put this piece of crap company and union out of your mind. Move on to either a different flying job or something outside of flying.

LCC ain't worth it pal."

pilot quote


Pilot,

What have you done to help younger pilots to making it better for them in the future? None. You have the I have got mine attitude that brought things down. Arrogant attitude.

 

[autofixer]

I just flew with the most junior Capt. at LCC; he is a May 1986 DOH (DCA 737).

Don't give pilot such a hard time, if I were in his shoes I would ride the gravy airbus as long as I could too. There are reasons to stay, such as: medical insurance. I paid $1,200 per month (family) on my leave of absence.

To those returning, just know LCC is still a big pile of it and 1/3 of the pilots (The Westies)are making more money than you and management plans to keep whip-sawing the groups and run the airline as two seperate entities(despite what they and ALPA say). LCC East ALPA will continue to screw you, unless you are a block holding Captain, always has, always will. It still barely bets working in a coal mine, but not by much!

 

[nostradamus]

How's that Open Time treating you mr. pilot? "One for all..." and all that crap. I think the only thing dumber than accepting a recall might be bidding international and having to listen to constant complaining about how hard it is to find good help to keep the sailboat going.

As long as the Open Time trough is open, the furloughees need not wait by the phone.

luv 737 quote above

Nostradamus says
You have an I got mine attitude too. You make fun of anyone wanting to get in this business, while sucking the breasts of aviation all your life, not trying to make anything better for the younger folks. You sir are a phoney.



QUOTE(nostradamus @ Sep 19 2006, 03:58 PM) *
It never ceases to amaze me the arrogance and hypocrisy of people like you. When you came into this business you started out with a low wage riding the coattails of people that fought for quite a lot to make this a profession easy to enter for you. They did not tell you to sit back and do not take flying jobs, then sit back and hope this solved the problem. They fought for the people that had no say. Now you turn around and complain about and berate younger people trying to make it.


LUV 737
"Nope, wrong again. When I started there was NO overlap between the lousy entry-level jobs and the coveted mainline ones. I had 12 interviews before I finally landed a job with a major carrier, not because my qualifications were lacking, but because it was that competitive. And it rightly should have been. Now a 500 hour pilot can apply to fly a jet and then complains that the pay is so low while ignoring the caustic effects his career choice has on the rest of the profession."


Above is the luv 737, I have got mine attitude.

 

[luvn737s]

luv 737 quote above

Nostradamus says
You have an I got mine attitude too. You make fun of anyone wanting to get in this business, while sucking the breasts of aviation all your life, not trying to make anything better for the younger folks. You sir are a phoney.

So you can't see the difference between someone (me, a junior puke at a no-name airline who has no access to open time) who encourages someone to participate in changing the industry by refusing to accept it's exploitative wages and an arrogant I-got-mine who brags about all they have to someone who has nothing? You can't see the difference between advocating change versus advocating self-aggrandisement? You can't grasp the difference between honor and haughtiness?

You'll never get to be Chief Justice of your own Moral Supreme Court that way Nostrilreamus.

P.S.
Give us the CV of your entire contribution to establishing and maintaining a new high-water mark for the piloting profession.

Go for it.

 

[john john]

You guys can blame me if you want. Plenty of blame to go around. But I know a lot of guys who make a hell of a lot more money than I do who don't fly airplanes. I started a business when I flew through Dallas the morning after BNF went belly up. I was a reserve copilot. I saw the handwriting on the wall. I am not a former BNF pilot. I spent a career preparing for what you guys are going through now. Still preparing for it. Luckily, and I mean luckily, it didn't happen to me.

Seniority is a random thing. Luck of the draw. Right place at the right time. Who hired me. Etc...........

I freely admit I was lucky. Still am. But also realistic. Ergo the other business. My job can disappear tomorrow. Just like yours did. Position on retirement age? Simple. They changed the rules by taking our pension, I support changing the rules and working longer. Delays everyones plans for 5 years. Everyone should have that option.

As far as getting to be super senior. This company is going to fly boatloads of wannabe jets feeding an extremely small number of larger jets. If you're young enough you'll get to the larger jets. If not, you won't. And the seniority integration will delay it even more.

Clinging to driftwood? Yeah, right.

Nowhere in any of my posts did I criticize anyone. Opining can be taken as criticism if what is said hits a sore spot. I imagine that is what is happening. You want to come back, have at it. I only asked why.

And the whiners berate me for even asking the question. And giving reasons why I don't think it's a good idea. My point is that we have sold you down the river. ALPA, the company, and your fellow LCC pilots.

And you are coming back for more? That's just plain stupid.

And THAT is a criticism.

pilot

We all should have learn a lesson each time one of the big boys went out of business each one (PA EA TW BN) should have been an lesson to labor unions and airline people still hanging around. It took a lifetime for some of us to get were we are now regarding seniority. Seniority is just about all we have now it means so much in this business. It's nice being the top of the heap. ALL YOU NEWBIES BETTER HAVE A "B" PLAN

 

[pilot]

Position on retirement age? Simple. They changed the rules by taking our pension, I support changing the rules and working longer. Delays everyones plans for 5 years. Everyone should have that option.

Pilot,

You lost me there big boy. If you have done so well with your business why would you want to cling on to your airline job for another five years? I smell a hypocrit with an agenda. A few months back I said we were on the same page. Color me wrong. :down:

Assuming things aren't you?

I didn't say I wanted to work past 60. 58 is my limit. The guys who haven't planned and counted on the CONTRACTUALLY agreed to retirement that is now gone should have the OPTION to continue working to make up for the lost retirement. Some will and some won't. Not our decision anyhow. Congress will decide.

Hypocrite? Certainly not. Opinionated about guy coming back to a piece of crap? Absolutely.

Agenda? You bet. Planning for the future without the airline job was my agenda beginning in 1982. Still is. From what I'm reading here others didn't have that agenda.

I'll color you any way you like pal. But you come back to work at LCC and I'll color you foolish.

pilot

 

[exusflyer]

We all should have learn a lesson each time one of the big boys went out of business each one (PA EA TW BN) should have been an lesson to labor unions and airline people still hanging around. It took a lifetime for some of us to get were we are now regarding seniority. Seniority is just about all we have now it means so much in this business. It’s nice being the top of the heap. ALL YOU NEWBES BETTER HAVE A “Bâ€￾ PLAN

A good reason why myself included on why we would possibly come back is.
1 I believe everyone at US east will be retired, if they
not change age 60, within the next 10-12 years?
2 If you are young enough like myself we will retire in
the top 20 of the senority for quite some time.

Just my two cents.

 

[careerfurloughee]

I didn't say I wanted to work past 60. 58 is my limit. The guys who haven't planned and counted on the CONTRACTUALLY agreed to retirement that is now gone should have the OPTION to continue working to make up for the lost retirement. Some will and some won't. Not our decision anyhow. Congress will decide.

Some counted on the CONTRACTUALLY agreed to no furlough clause. Look where that got them. Any pilot that has been making the big bucks for all these years and failed to prepare for retirement is just as foolish. Now you think the junior guys should just suck it up for another five years? Color me stupid, just not that stupid pal.

 

[fatherabraham]

All,

Interesting thread. If a Baby Boomer (BB) pilot you have a more than likely benifited in most financial aspects of living as well as piloting. To add insult to the younger are post such as "pilot" and advice from a group of BB that over and over has hindered your career by the " I've got mine , screw you " attitude . The younger generation will @ some point gain momentum and level the playing field via retribution to past inequities. Hence the reason the BB want another 5 years to rule.

I assume those wanting to return know the mess the BB have created and are willing to behave like union folk and right the wrongs. I am rooting for the younger generations as I have a son entering this pathetic economy and the less exposure he has to the BB , the better he will fair.

FA

 

[nostradamus]

So you can't see the difference between someone (me, a junior puke at a no-name airline who has no access to open time) who encourages someone to participate in changing the industry by refusing to accept it's exploitative wages and an arrogant I-got-mine who brags about all they have to someone who has nothing? You can't see the difference between advocating change versus advocating self-aggrandisement? You can't grasp the difference between honor and haughtiness?

You'll never get to be Chief Justice of your own Moral Supreme Court that way Nostrilreamus.

P.S.
Give us the CV of your entire contribution to establishing and maintaining a new high-water mark for the piloting profession.

Go for it.

Why do you not "refuse to accept it", like you say, by putting your money where your mouth is and quit?

I do not sit there like a hypocrite and tease furloghees and new people trying to enter aviation, tell them to stay out, like you are, while you are staying and giving everything away.

If you would like to see LUV 737 previous posts click on his name, then upper right profile options, then click find members posts. Please do the same with mine. He is a bipolar phoney. See for yourself

Assuming things aren't you?

I didn't say I wanted to work past 60. 58 is my limit. The guys who haven't planned and counted on the CONTRACTUALLY agreed to retirement that is now gone should have the OPTION to continue working to make up for the lost retirement. Some will and some won't. Not our decision anyhow. Congress will decide.

Hypocrite? Certainly not. Opinionated about guy coming back to a piece of crap? Absolutely.

Agenda? You bet. Planning for the future without the airline job was my agenda beginning in 1982. Still is. From what I'm reading here others didn't have that agenda.

I'll color you any way you like pal. But you come back to work at LCC and I'll color you foolish.

pilot

What are you trying to do to make this a better place for the younger folks who will enter in the futute. Do you not think this is your responsibility? You are a arrogant, I have got mine fool. Lead follow or get the hell out of the way.