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Alpa Orders Nc To Obtain New Agreement
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
mwereplanes
Senior
- Jan 21, 2004
- 302
- 0
This thing was going to 150 jets from the start. IMHO. As I have mentioned many times 320 will be a reserve copilot by the time his management cronies get through with him. Sad thing is, he will accept the position because that is all he can do.
As for the representatives of the 1852 pilots of PIT and PHL, they are far from being irrelevant. The plan is to see just how bad the "TA" is that comes back from the company. To prove once and for all just what kind of people we are dealing with. At that point you will see just how insignificant the 4 brave men are. Remember the MEC must vote to send any TA out for ratification.
Out of seniority? Yeah, I'm really losing sleep over that one. 320 can't quite understand the resolve of some of us. Nor can his fellow bedwetters. The fact is that many of us will not be working here IF we survive. Regardless of what the judge imposes or doesn't impose. You see, some of us HAVE a bottom line. Others do not.
We all have choices to make. But to allow this management to rape our profession without a fight is disgraceful. And to continue to work here after the rape is pathetic. IMHO.
mr
As for the representatives of the 1852 pilots of PIT and PHL, they are far from being irrelevant. The plan is to see just how bad the "TA" is that comes back from the company. To prove once and for all just what kind of people we are dealing with. At that point you will see just how insignificant the 4 brave men are. Remember the MEC must vote to send any TA out for ratification.
Out of seniority? Yeah, I'm really losing sleep over that one. 320 can't quite understand the resolve of some of us. Nor can his fellow bedwetters. The fact is that many of us will not be working here IF we survive. Regardless of what the judge imposes or doesn't impose. You see, some of us HAVE a bottom line. Others do not.
We all have choices to make. But to allow this management to rape our profession without a fight is disgraceful. And to continue to work here after the rape is pathetic. IMHO.
mr
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #19
US10,
Lots of people like to think that Continental saved itself because it gouged its employees and shed lots of costs. The facts however are considerably different. CO survives today for one reason and one reason only – because it went after boatloads of NEW industry revenue which had never been tapped such as in EWR (without a doubt the highest margin hub in the US) and in IAH (a city that was more than capable of supporting a large hub but which had never been developed as such. US’ transformation plan is built on serving markets that are guaranteed to become less profitable due to the growth of low cost carriers – the complete antithesis of the scenario CO used to its advantage.
CO also bent over backwards (no pun intended) to re-engage the very alienated workforce and have done a splendid job of doing so. While US could well follow the same tack under a new administration, it is highly unlikely that it would be anywhere near as successful given that there is no successful legacy carrier US could emulate; in reality, CO’s new employee relations were designed by looking at Delta and Piedmont and adding performance-based principles from the non-airline world.
Finally, the airline industry is in far worse shape now than it was in the 90s when CO rebuilt itself and shows no sign of improving anytime soon. CO benefited from the very strong internet driven economy of the 90s – a phenomena that no one expects will be repeated.
Continental Airlines turnaround of the 90s was a once in an industry turnaround that was driven by a very unique set of circumstances that will not be repeated.
Lots of people like to think that Continental saved itself because it gouged its employees and shed lots of costs. The facts however are considerably different. CO survives today for one reason and one reason only – because it went after boatloads of NEW industry revenue which had never been tapped such as in EWR (without a doubt the highest margin hub in the US) and in IAH (a city that was more than capable of supporting a large hub but which had never been developed as such. US’ transformation plan is built on serving markets that are guaranteed to become less profitable due to the growth of low cost carriers – the complete antithesis of the scenario CO used to its advantage.
CO also bent over backwards (no pun intended) to re-engage the very alienated workforce and have done a splendid job of doing so. While US could well follow the same tack under a new administration, it is highly unlikely that it would be anywhere near as successful given that there is no successful legacy carrier US could emulate; in reality, CO’s new employee relations were designed by looking at Delta and Piedmont and adding performance-based principles from the non-airline world.
Finally, the airline industry is in far worse shape now than it was in the 90s when CO rebuilt itself and shows no sign of improving anytime soon. CO benefited from the very strong internet driven economy of the 90s – a phenomena that no one expects will be repeated.
Continental Airlines turnaround of the 90s was a once in an industry turnaround that was driven by a very unique set of circumstances that will not be repeated.
usfliboi
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 2,070
- 270
I disagree. The shedding of major labor cost was a huge reason cal is alive today. The morale and problems we have today, cal had then. To further show how the industry affects cal, they recently laid off, and are getting ready to make further cuts including, layoffs and paycuts....
TheDog2004
Senior
- Mar 26, 2004
- 267
- 0
I fail to see where 320pilot is gaining any pleasure from any of this.
dude is the messenger. That's it.
dude is the messenger. That's it.
mwereplanes
Senior
- Jan 21, 2004
- 302
- 0
TheDog2004 said:
If you believe that you are either not very observant, not reading between the lines or not very smart. Or possibly a combination of all three.
The "dude" has relished wearing the grim reaper's hood for a very long time. I truly have empathy and sympathy for all the U employees except one. His lack of regard for anyone except who he sees in the mirror each day is apparent to anyone who chooses to look. He has chosen to denigrate his fellow workers and continues to do so simply because they do not agree with his views. Once I saw that he became fair game for me.
DELETED His life is this airline and he will do anything possible to his fellow employees to attempt to save it. As if he could.
mr
mr
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #24
USFliBoi,
Have a look at CAL’s annual report for 1997 which contains financial data back to 1994.
http://www.continental.com/company/investo...tal_ar_1997.pdf
Note that between 1996 and 1997, CO’s passenger revenue increased 14% while labor expenses increased only 11%. That pattern continued throughout the 90s as CO improved its margins by 30% or more each successive year.
Continental Airlines succeeded in transforming itself because it went after new revenue, not because it went after the employee’s paychecks. Yes, CO used bankruptcy to shed costs under the former corporate structure but it took building a new revenue plan to turn the company around. USAirways’ plan is based totally on cutting costs, not on creating new revenue streams. Every airline that has increased its fortunes have created revenue, not just slashed costs in order to return to profitability.
Have a look at CAL’s annual report for 1997 which contains financial data back to 1994.
http://www.continental.com/company/investo...tal_ar_1997.pdf
Note that between 1996 and 1997, CO’s passenger revenue increased 14% while labor expenses increased only 11%. That pattern continued throughout the 90s as CO improved its margins by 30% or more each successive year.
Continental Airlines succeeded in transforming itself because it went after new revenue, not because it went after the employee’s paychecks. Yes, CO used bankruptcy to shed costs under the former corporate structure but it took building a new revenue plan to turn the company around. USAirways’ plan is based totally on cutting costs, not on creating new revenue streams. Every airline that has increased its fortunes have created revenue, not just slashed costs in order to return to profitability.
savyinvestor
Senior
- Jan 15, 2003
- 494
- 0
I see your relatively new so you don't know what your talking about or your him, or your related to him. You haven't followed his posts or read his OP ED piece in the newspaper. Believe me when he found out they may furlough out of seniority except for the A320"s he was jumping for joy. His job is saved at the expense of others. No problem there! Savy :down:TheDog2004 said:
jimntx
Veteran
usfliboi said:
The people laid off were not represented employees. Most of the layoffs came from management and headquarters staff. Over the past year, they have been reducing the size of their res staff, but even SWA has closed some of their res centers. More and more passengers are using the Internet to book--particularly on user-friendly, easy to understand websites like Continental's is.
Since 9/11, Continental has furloughed no flight attendants involuntarily, nor have they asked for a dime in concessions (not sure about the pilots).
I posted this yesterday in another thread:
Today USA320Pilot answered number 4 with:
And also answered #8, because this "plan" still has 50 seat RJs. If you are truly following jetBlue, you'd know that they don't even have any EMB 190s yet and thus have no idea if that part of a 'jetBlue business model' would even be successful because jetBlue has no idea if it will be successful. They don't even have those planes yet! And no CRJ700s/EMB-170s, let alone CRJ-200s.
USA320Pilot also posted today
If US is going to "fully emulate jetBlue" I suggest you provide evidence that US is going to eliminate all 10 characteristics of US Airways' operation that I listed above. As of right now you have only mentioned elimination of one of those attributes and have said US will continue to fly 50 seat RJs. Thus, this plan to fully emulate jetBlue is still nothing more than the same hybrid LCC/legacy business model, just with fewer planes.
Today USA320Pilot answered number 4 with:
And also answered #8, because this "plan" still has 50 seat RJs. If you are truly following jetBlue, you'd know that they don't even have any EMB 190s yet and thus have no idea if that part of a 'jetBlue business model' would even be successful because jetBlue has no idea if it will be successful. They don't even have those planes yet! And no CRJ700s/EMB-170s, let alone CRJ-200s.
USA320Pilot also posted today
If US is going to "fully emulate jetBlue" I suggest you provide evidence that US is going to eliminate all 10 characteristics of US Airways' operation that I listed above. As of right now you have only mentioned elimination of one of those attributes and have said US will continue to fly 50 seat RJs. Thus, this plan to fully emulate jetBlue is still nothing more than the same hybrid LCC/legacy business model, just with fewer planes.
RowUnderDCA
Veteran
- Oct 6, 2002
- 2,123
- 1
Well, maybe they're going to try something new. Like CO correctly predicted a way to increase revenues, with a degree of uncertainty, in the 90s. Maybe U is trying something new, if the creditors will let them. What do the readers of this board recommend?
TheDog2004
Senior
- Mar 26, 2004
- 267
- 0
savyinvestor said:
Do not confuse my lack of posts with being a newbie - I have lurked for several years.
I certainly feel your pain, but his posts are very much in line with what independent observers have been saying about US Airways for a VERY long time.
Santorum........are you kidding me? I'd love to be a fly on the wall during that meeting. Santorum is a joke of a politician. But then again, 320, you just love people in power..........Wolf, Siegel, Santorum, Pollack, Lakefield. You're a true soldier!
-fatburger-
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