More On 9/28 Alpa Proposal

[BoeingBoy]

fatherabraham,,

Should have added....

Assuming your guess about the PHL F/O reps age is accurate (and not saying that it is ), personal interest would dictate advocating major changes in the DC plan - such as accepting the company proposal to go to a partial match 401K - in exchange for a lower pay cut. That would keep his pay as high as possible and have little or no effect on his retirement (assuming that this place lasts long enough for him to retire).

Since that has not been his position, I can only assume that he is trying to represent the PHL F/O's of all ages as he thinks best. Absent evidence (and not innuendo) to the contrary, I'll continue to believe that.

There are some on the MEC that would see their retirement account increase by agreeing to the partial-match 401K, and one in particular who has been very vocal in calling for a vote on the proposal containing that. Strange how some don't see a conflict of interest there.

Jim

 

[funguy2]

As High Iron said the other day... good hard-hitting posts!

 

[Borescope]

"The Debtors’ financial projections show that in order to avoid a cash crisis in early
2005, they must accrue roughly $200 million in additional cash over the next five months.
Even this $200 million figure is based on the assumption that there will be no unexpected drop in revenues or increase in fuel costs.
If either adverse event happens, the hole will only grow deeper."


The way oil has been lately and with the drop off in seasonal traffic, how can there be no drop in revenue or increase in fuel? It is a vicious cycle where they will be asking for more and more until there is nothing left to give. :down:

 

[funguy2]

True Borescope... Plus you have to consider the effect of increasing cost of oil and natural gas on family budgets in addition to the airline's costs...

As energy costs continue to increase, employment and salaries stagnate, disposable income in this country will begin to decline, and discretionary spending, like vacations, may feel the pinch. This is largely the economics behind why airlines can't seem to get a fare increase through even though fuel costs are escalating... The answer is that energy costs are already reducing demand and/or what people are willing to pay for travel, increasing the fares only adds to the exodus of revenue...

Therefore, not only does increasing fuel costs affect the airlines' costs, it will also affect demand (and revenue), until the economy begins to successfully cope with the increased cost of energy.

 

[BoeingBoy]

borescope,

Short of Jed discovering black gold (crude, that is) while out hunting and lots of folks deciding to travel in the traditionally slow season, you are probably correct. The big question is will the creditors give enough time for "asking more and more".

I'll leave it up to others to say if what's happening is normal, but the trickle of creditors seeking money has started. Although individually small, it's up to over $500,000 so far. Could this trickle be the start of a flood?

Jim

 

[mwereplanes]

Jim:

Cogent, unemotional and factual posts. Far from the bedwetters frightened, childlike outbursts and skewing of facts. They won't evern acknowledge the recall attempt in PHL because they lost. And now, they are going to try it again. And again it will be defeated.

The 4 brave men who represent the 1852 pilots of PHL and PIT deserve our thanks. The bedwetters would have had us voting on company proposal 1. What we end up with, IF the 4 brave men decide to put it out for a vote, will be better than ANY of the company proposals. That is, if the company wants to continue in business as a 279 plane airline. If they do not, then all bets are off the table.

Personally, I believe Bronner (he is calling the shots, not Lakefield) has his sights set on 150 jets. With an armada of contracted out RJ's feeding a substantially smaller domestic operation and a substatially larger international operation. Our good buddy will be jerking gear for us because he has no skills outside this business. If WE choose to stay. For me, that is doubtful at this point. That is why he is so easily convinced by an inept management that the employees wages and work rules must be decimated for us to survive. Not adjusted mind you. Decimated. Well below Southwest's contract.

The brave men who represent the majority still control this union. If the company doesn't understand what they will do with a TA that is crap they will be finding out shortly. That I can promise you.

mr

 

[BoeingBoy]

fatherabraham,

After a little sorting of the database, here's the general ages broken down by position. Note that these are for pilots who held a position on the last bid, and does not include non-line pilots (furloughed, LTD, personal/military leave, supervisory). As before, the ages are as of the end of this year.

55 and older:

557 C/O
296 F/O

50 but not 55:

593 C/O
480 F/O

45 but not 50:

295 C/O
570 F/O

40 but not 45:

29 C/O
263 F/O

Under 40:

1 F/O

I'll leave it up to someone else to come up with rough average ages for the two groups.

Jim

 

[fatherabraham]

Jim,

1314 f/o (<55) vs 296 F/o (>55)

917 Capt (<55) vs 557 Capt (>55)

or 2231 Pilots (<55) vs 853 Pilots (>55)

Shall be interesting to see if majority get what they consider a fair shake considering history does not bode well for this to happen.

Thanks again for info...still gotta wonder from these #'s how the Phl FO rep is justifying his position?

 

[USA320Pilot]

BoeingBoy & Mwereplanes:

BoeingBoy said: “You blame the RC4 for this BK?â€

USA320Pilot comments: When did I say that? It is widely accepted within ALPA that if the pilot’s had obtained a new agreement this summer, the AFA, TWU units, and the CWA would have too. Bruce Lakefield told the ALPA MEC that if this occurred, management would have come to the union’s with agreements and then discussed avoiding bankruptcy without the IAM’s participation. Apparently, the company had ways to reduce IAM employee costs without filing for a formal reorganization.

Did the RC cause the bankruptcy petition to be filed? No, but they were a major contributor.

Mwereplanes said: “The bedwetters would have had us voting on company proposal 1. What we end up with, IF the 4 brave men decide to put it out for a vote, will be better than ANY of the company proposals.â€

USA320Pilot comments: Does it make you feel important to insult people hiding behind your PC? I have asked you on multiple occasions to meet and discuss the issues, but you’re afraid to identify yourself, which I believe is cowardly. It’s clear you have no idea of what caused the 12-0 vote to unleash the ALPA NC’s shackles and why the parties are now close to a TA, without the majority of the DC Plan. The NC expects a company counterproposal tonight and the MEC will convene tomorrow, where the body could decide to send out a TA for membership ratification.

Finally, David Bronner and Bruce Lakefield are not running the company, it’s the ATSB, GE, and the other creditor’s who are demanding US Airways change to become competitive in the marketplace with the profitable airlines.

Meanwhile, I find it interesting that the RC4 hand picked NC now has agreed to give up the DC Plan. How can that be and why did that change from ALPA's September 10 resolution?

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[PITbull]

USA320,

AFA would not have captitulated, we don't care what the hell ALPA does.

We ran a scientific poll in May, and by majority, our members told us to discuss further negotiations. Pittsburgh Pres. ran the AFA International poll twice to make sure that the first poll assertion was correct. (PIT was polled and it was "NO" opening the cotract no matter what the threat, and the Pres, voted that at the table on a "roll call".)

There is no way AFA would have come to a T/A before Sept 15. Period.

I know!

 

[BoeingBoy]

BoeingBoy said: “You blame the RC4 for this BK?â€￾

USA320Pilot comments: When did I say that?

[post="186028"][/post]​

If you'll look at my post again, you'll see that it was addressed to UseYourHead, who did say that. However, from sections of your post that I deleted from the quote above it's possible to infer that you share UYH's belief. I guess Pollock and Lakefield are less than truthful - at least in the opinions of you and UYH.

Jim

 

[TheLarkAscending]

USA320Pilot comments: Does it make you feel important to insult people hiding behind your PC? I have asked you on multiple occasions to meet and discuss the issues, but you’re afraid to identify yourself, which I believe is cowardly.

This is complete and utter nonsense. You've insulted several people on here by calling them "old" and for having a legitimate concern regarding the pension issue.

People can only communicate on this forum by sitting in front of the PC and that is not hiding.

Just because you have sought, requested, and failed to achieve a new avenue of communication with several individuals here, in an effort to convince them to see things from your vantage point, does not constitute fear on their part.

Rejection can be a tough thing to handle for some individuals. Your belief system may need realignment -- there is nothing cowardly about not wanting to meet with someone, especially when every single post that is exchanged appears to be in direct opposition to what the other posts. It makes little sense to agree to meet with an established antagonist -- why badger this person for making an intelligent decision to avoid additional, obvious conflict?

 

[mwereplanes]

320:

How intelligent would it be to identify oneself to one who has stated on many ocassions that out of seniority furloughs would be based on malcontents and disgruntled employees? I imagine our resident "company man" would bolt to CCY with those identities gleefully hoping against hope he could help rid the company of the employees who fully understand where the failure of this company lies. Yeah, I'm going to tell you who I am. Just as soon as you are assigned as my F/O after getting called out on your days off to fill out your reserve time.

If the ATSB and GE are running this company then my name is Mel Brooks. Again, a showing of a lack of understanding of the corporate world and how it works. Bronner is running this company. No doubt about it. How many times has the ATSB changed the loan covenants at his request? Yeah, they are running the show. And there is not one pilot on this property that does not understand things have to change. You won't even acknowledge that fact. Jeeeeez!

The 1852 pilots represented by 4 brave men have NOT agreed to give up the DC plan. That is the germaine point. Do you have a TA in front of you for your yes vote? I didn't think so. I notice you said "the body could send out a TA for membership ratification." You sure do use that word "could" an awful lot. It is pervasive in all your posts. Watch what happens Sparky. For some strange reason you think my representative has lost his resolve. I hope Glass doesn't think the same thing. If he does, you will NEVER get a chance to vote. And we will be working under what a judge decides. Correction, you will.

For the record, the MAJOR contributor to the BK filing was the pension funding requirements. Put the blame where it belongs. The pilots had NOTHING to do with it. U was going into C11 with or without a pilot agreement. For you to pretend otherwise again shows your credibility. But most here in this forum understand where you are coming from.

I haven't decided whether to leave U yet. A lot depends on our working conditions after the judge figures all this out. But I tell you I am tempted to stay just to allow you the opportunity to fly as my First Officer. I could teach you a thing or two about being a Captain. And what it means to stand up for the employees of a company that WE built and THEY have torn apart.

mr

 

[700UW]

Very well said mr!

 

[NeedForSpeedNFS]

The NC expects a company counterproposal tonight and the MEC will convene tomorrow, where the body could decide to send out a TA for membership ratification.


Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="186028"][/post]​

People bash 320 constantly, but this quote was yesterday, what did we hear today in the news????? Hey, kids....can you say, ALPA????? T/A?????