Alpa Merger Seniority Integration

[exB717Flyer]

A question for the US West guys, why are you against DOH with fences?

One main reason: furloughs. Furloughs go in reverse-seniority order, no exeptions. DOH makes over three-quarters of the AWA pilots furlough-fodder. Sure, this is a worst-case scenario but being former TWA I can attest to the possiblility becoming reality.

 

[BottomFeeder]

20 year pilot of what?...
10 year pilot of what?...

What did the 10 year AWA captain do prior to that? Maybe flew jets for another airline? A charter? Maybe large military transports?

As so many keep pointing out, there is no more USAir and there is no more AWA. There is only the New US Airways. So by some accounts you can all be considered 1st year pilots for the new company.

This idea that one guys 20 years is worth more than another guys 10 is a one sided argument. Of course 20 years with US is worth something, but in this game there is no perfect answer and years of flying is not a relevant criteria. Sure, it's not your "fault" that USAir was going out of business. It's not your fault that you were once a captain and now you're not. Conversely, it's not the AWA 10 year captain's fault that he progressed quicky at his company and did not get downgraded.

Some could even argue that had you left USAir 10 years ago and hired on with AWA, you'd be a captain today. Whose fault is it that that didn't happen?

My point is that you come to the table with what you have and go from there. Everything else is speculation on what "coulda" or "shoulda" happened in a different world.

767jetz,

I knew that I would see you ,the UAL's Mr. Know It All, sticking your better than you nose in the other peoples affairs.

Why don't you take your own advice and stay off the boards of others airlines.

We don't need your version of everything is a rule unless it is UAL's, then of course, it is a different story.

I would hate to have to go back to your prior posts and cut and paste them here to show how you really are!

Remember those who stick their nose in others affairs usually have it cut off or it ends up brown and stinky.

Go back to your train wreck, as you call it.

 

[N924PS]

Okay.

All of you out there that believe that the USAir pilots are the losers and have no career expectations, and thus should be mostly stapled behind the winning team of AWA pilots - stand up.

Wow! There are a lot of you!

I guess that settles it. USAir pilots to the back of the line please.

See? We don't need no stinkin' PID.

Too bad. PID is October 24,2005.

 

[aquagreen73s]

One main reason: furloughs. Furloughs go in reverse-seniority order, no exeptions. DOH makes over three-quarters of the AWA pilots furlough-fodder. Sure, this is a worst-case scenario but being former TWA I can attest to the possiblility becoming reality.

That's just one reason. The other is this idea that 2000+ pilots on the Uair side get credit for not being employed. It strains credulity to think that DOH is ok when it's not used in the seniority list itself, for pay purposes, vacation, bidding...you name it. Longevity determines seniority; if there's never been a furlough, then DOH and longevity are equal. But thousands of U pilots have been furloughed and in every case it's been furloughes measured in years. Some have accrued nearly a decade of furlough time. Now, if there was a sizable precentage of AWA pilots who likewise were furloughed for years, then the application of DOH would benefit both groups. But that clearly is not the case. THe most an AWA pilot has ever been furloughed is three to four years. What the pure actual date DOH folks at U are asking for is the application of a method which benefits them and not AWA, and then also has a sever discriminatory effect on AWA. And what's most absurd is the simplistic and self-serving attempt to legitimize the actual date DOH argument just because it's applied uniformly. Sure. And black people had the same laws applied to them in the deep South a hundred years ago as whites. Jim Crow laws were fair because each got what the other got. Again...it's all fair, right? Not trying to be bombastic, but there is nothing ever useful in trivializing logic. It's a slippery slope which time and time again has shown that it only makes things worse.

 

[corl737]

Why don't you take your own advice and stay off the boards of others airlines.

Now, now boys. Play nice. This board is open to everyone worldwide, even those with no affiliation to any airline or anything to do with aviation. Although there are separate sections named, no entity pays for exclusive use of a section. Besides, it's really boring to always have to argue amongst your own family members!

 

[767jetz]

767jetz,

I knew that I would see you ,the UAL's Mr. Know It All, sticking your better than you nose in the other peoples affairs.

Why don't you take your own advice and stay off the boards of others airlines.

I would hate to have to go back to your prior posts and cut and paste them here to show how you really are!

Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. Temper, temper Bottom feeder.

What's the matter? A little reasonable debate doesn't sit well with you if it goes against your personal opinions?

Spare me the tantrum, please. My points are valid, and only an attempt to interject another point of view.

I happen to share the same opinion as others here who disagree with a DOH integration, so go cry a river.

I sure don't remember ever telling anyone with a reasonable opinion to stay off anyone's board. Only those who badger, bait, and inflame. What exactly did I say to get your panties bunched up anyway? Looks like you're the only one who's offended.

I would love for you to go back and paste some of my posts here to "show how I really am ." You are full of bull$h--.

And by the way, with possible further industry consolidation on the horizon, the US/AWA integration and any precedent it sets is certainly everyone's interest. Did ya ever think of that?

 

[BottomFeeder]

Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. Temper, temper Bottom feeder.

What's the matter? A little reasonable debate doesn't sit well with you if it goes against your personal opinions?

Spare me the tantrum, please. My points are valid, and only an attempt to interject another point of view.

I happen to share the same opinion as others here who disagree with a DOH integration, so go cry a river.

I sure don't remember ever telling anyone with a reasonable opinion to stay off anyone's board. Only those who badger, bait, and inflame. What exactly did I say to get your panties bunched up anyway? Looks like you're the only one who's offended.

I would love for you to go back and paste some of my posts here to "show how I really am ." You are full of bull$h--.

And by the way, with possible further industry consolidation on the horizon, the US/AWA integration and any precedent it sets is certainly everyone's interest. Did ya ever think of that?

767jetz,

Flame bait, Inflame?

How is this not flame bait?

Sure, it's not your "fault" that USAir was going out of business. It's not your fault that you were once a captain and now you're not.

Yes you are a DH and that's not deadhead.

Go ahead MR STAPLE them all to the bottom of the UAL list. We all know how great UAL since you informed us so many times during the UAL/US.

 

[767jetz]

767jetz,

How is this not flame bait?

Sure, it's not your "fault" that USAir was going out of business. It's not your fault that you were once a captain and now you're not.

Go ahead MR STAPLE them all to the bottom of the UAL list. We all know how great UAL since you informed us so many times during the UAL/US.

Ummmmm... Still don't see what the flame was. Did you happen to read the whole post, or are you the type who just takes a few words out of context and derives some hidden meaning?
Here is the whole thought in context, DH:

"Of course 20 years with US is worth something, but in this game there is no perfect answer and years of flying is not a relevant criteria. Sure, it's not your "fault" that USAir was going out of business. It's not your fault that you were once a captain and now you're not. Conversely, it's not the AWA 10 year captain's fault that he progressed quicky at his company and did not get downgraded. "

I challenge you to post just one quote of mine where I supported stapling. Just one. And I absolutely NEVER said anything about stapling. I disagree with a staple job just as much as I oppose DOH. Get your facts straight.

 

[BottomFeeder]

Ummmmm... Still don't see what the flame was. Did you happen to read the whole post, or are you the type who just takes a few words out of context and derives some hidden meaning?
Here is the whole thought in context, DH:

"Of course 20 years with US is worth something, but in this game there is no perfect answer and years of flying is not a relevant criteria. Sure, it's not your "fault" that USAir was going out of business. It's not your fault that you were once a captain and now you're not. Conversely, it's not the AWA 10 year captain's fault that he progressed quicky at his company and did not get downgraded. "

I challenge you to post just one quote of mine where I supported stapling. Just one. And I absolutely NEVER said anything about stapling. I disagree with a staple job just as much as I oppose DOH. Get your facts straight.

767jetz,

Everyone knows you are the UAL version of 320. Go ahead and keep flaming. No one will ever be able to show you anything. Your twisted logic gives you the right to belittle all of those that speak up their views that don't fall into the box you have already made up. Glad your at UAL and not here!!!

What will the reply be next?

We are waiting 320jetz

 

[767jetz]

767jetz,

Go ahead and keep flaming.

What will the reply be next?

You crack me up BF! You and your buddie 320 do have two interesting traits in common... a penchant for making false statements and offering no proof, and shear hatred and contempt for anyone who disagree's with your point of view.

Sorry if you are SO offended with something I've said. Funny thing is, you seem to be the only one who was offended. Hmmm... what does that tell you?

The comment you referred to was simply stating the position of the generic US captain and the generic AWA captain in order to show that while both sides have valid concerns, DOH and the staple job are both unfair solutions. You see, objective people can see both sides of a debate, regardless of the side they're on.

Anything else you read into it is your bad.

But go ahead. You can have the last word. It's OK.

peace,
767jetz

 

[TheLarkAscending]

767jetz,

Everyone knows you are the UAL version of 320.

E-v-e-r-y-o-n-e? Really? Now that is one mighty huge exaggeration. I don't think you'll be able to find anyone here that would agree with that. No offense, but you sure seem like you need a warm cup of cocoa and a big hug!

 

[BottomFeeder]

E-v-e-r-y-o-n-e? Really? Now that is one mighty huge exaggeration. I don't think you'll be able to find anyone here that would agree with that. No offense, but you sure seem like you need a warm cup of cocoa and a big hug!

LARK

A-N-Y-O-N-E, Could that be an exaggeration?

Sorry I will refuse the HUG offer. I don't go that way.

Nice Try

You crack me up BF! You and your buddie 320 do have two interesting traits in common... a penchant for making false statements and offering no proof, and shear hatred and contempt for anyone who disagree's with your point of view.

Sorry if you are SO offended with something I've said. Funny thing is, you seem to be the only one who was offended. Hmmm... what does that tell you?

The comment you referred to was simply stating the position of the generic US captain and the generic AWA captain in order to show that while both sides have valid concerns, DOH and the staple job are both unfair solutions. You see, objective people can see both sides of a debate, regardless of the side they're on.

Anything else you read into it is your bad.

But go ahead. You can have the last word. It's OK.

peace,
767jetz

767jetz,

Common traits? Like being hired by UAL? Worked for another carrier prior?

Cheers

 

[BottomFeeder]

You crack me up BF! You and your buddie 320 do have two interesting traits in common... a penchant for making false statements and offering no proof,

and shear hatred and contempt for anyone who disagree's with your point of view.

peace,
767jetz

767jetz,

SO what is my point of view since you seem to already know it. Please post my views on the this for us to see.

Then when you can't, would that be a false statemnet and offering no proof.

Funny how you describe your self so well!!!!!!

peace,
767jetz

767jetz,

You read very slow. You have been on this "reading this topic" for 10 mins or more and no replys yet.

What gives?

 

[BottomFeeder]

Too bad. PID is October 24,2005.

N924PS,

Why is the Oct 24,2005 date not good for the PID? What are the advantages/ disadvantages to an earlier date or a later date?

Thanks

 

[N924PS]

N924PS,

Why is the Oct 24,2005 date not good for the PID? What are the advantages/ disadvantages to an earlier date or a later date?

Thanks

I am delighted with the October 24 PID. My "too bad" was intended for CapnCockroach's post, who was obviously not in favor of an early PID.

A later PID would allow AW pilots more time to get as many pilots as possible into Captain seats prior to a merged list.