ALPA BOS F/o Rep. Update - June 25

[pilot]

We all know how 320 and his ilk play the game. Yeah, I'm gonna give my name and employee number to a guy like this who will then run it to management in hopes of another feather in his cap exposing a "disgruntled" pilot. What a moron.

And moron is not as an insult. It is a factual opinion of someone who has seen the likes of you and your ilk (again a factual opinion) whose primary goal is to save their job while disregarding the entire profession. Character indeed. Boeing Boy has it right. Slandering the PHL reps who are more than willing to take on Glass, Hemmenway and Parker to bring this pilot group to where it belongs.

And why air the "dirty laundry" in public if the purpose was not to slander? Simply because the fear is starting to rise in these cowards (factual opinion) throats once again. God forbid we have pilots willing to go to the wall to improve the pay and working conditions of the U pilots.

Everyone on this website knows about 320. And I will make sure all the AWA guys know about him and his GAG.

pilot

 

[mlt]

I believe when people get emotional they say and do things they would otherwise not do, especially when sitting behind a computer screen, but their lack of decorum and lack of respect speaks loudly about their character.

Do you remember the night you implied that an airplane would meet the pavement because the pilots lost their pension? Did your lack of decorum and lack of respect speak loudly about your character?

 

[USA320Pilot]

700UW:

700UW said: "And why did you change your US Aviation name a couple of years back?"

USA320Pilot answers: You know why, but just try to be argumentative, like so many other disgruntled employees who luckily are in the minority. For a refresher, US Airways' ethics manual prohibits employees from posting their name on the internet according to Human Resource and Chief Pilot personnel.

I believe those who insult others and hide behind a computer screen are the people who are cowardly and yellow...plain and simple.

In regard to this topic it is once again about PHL MEC Representative misrepresentation. Former MEC Chairman Bill Pollock and current MEC Chairman Jack Stephen (as the previous Communications Committee Chairman); along with other MEC Representatives, have publicly written about PHL Rep. misrepresentation multipe times -- not me -- but ALPA leaders.

That's the issue and personal attacks, drifting from the subject, or shooting the messenger is an attempt to divert attention from the issue because a lack of character cannot be defended. In my opinion, those who argue otherwise are bitter people who cannot get over the fact the industry/company has changed and are the people truly being hurt by being the one's who carry the anger day-to-day. I pity these bitter people...life is too short.

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[700UW]

And ones who lie, post misinformation and ones who don't have a backbone to stand up to the company are the worst kind of cowards.

 

[USA320Pilot]

MLT:

MLT said: "Do you remember the night you implied that an airplane would meet the pavement because the pilots lost their pension? Did your lack of decorum and lack of respect speak loudly about your character?"

USA320Pilot comments: This is a typical comment to divert attention from the topic at hand due to bitterness. The information I posted came from ALPA International bankruptcy attorney Richard Seltzer, the Duane Woerth the ALPA president, Bruce York the ALPA director of representation, Mike Abram ALPA's legal counsel, Jeff Small ALPA's attorney and contract administrator, Michael Glanzer ALPA's financial banker, Amy Alperi from ALPA's Economic & Financial Analysis Department, Rick Moseley ALPA R&I Committee Chairman, all 3 MEC Officers, and two-thirds of the MEC.

In their opinion US Airways did not have the hundreds of millions of dollars to make the retirement plan whole and emerge from bankruptcy. Without Congressional pension relief or hundreds of millions of dollars invested into the retirement plan US Airways' creditors committee and bankruptcy court would not have approved the POR.

If I am not mistaken, the same issue holds true and UAL and DAL, among other's, who either have or will terminate their pension plans.

Do I like this? No, of course not, but I understand the economics. In prior years we witnessed a "perfect storm" where a convergence of events like the fall in bond market interest rates and the bear stock market eroded pension fund market values. Market conditions caused fund meltdowns, which is why the Bush Adminstration and Congress are working on pension relief.

What's interesting about this is about 7 or 8 year's ago I sat in a MEC meeting where Negotiating Committee member Donn Butkovic and Negotiating Committee Chairman Rick Moseley saw the pension train wreck headed right at US Airways. These two men recommended that ALPA negotiate to terminate the DB Plan and replace it using funds from the DB Plan to a DC Plan. Each pilot would have received a lot of money that could have been placed in a tax free account in their name.

At the time the MEC was controlled by irrational hardliners lead by John Davis who would hear nothing about it because they wanted their $1.0 to $2.0 million lump sum retirement payments.

What happened instead? As Butkovic and Moseley suggested the retirement fund collapsed and the pilot's will receive hundred's of millions of dollars less in payments.

Another short-sighted decision by ALPA's hardliners, which once again hurts fellow pilot's due to emotion and anger versus logic.

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

_________________________________________________________

Pilot said: “Boeing Boy has it right. Slandering the PHL reps who are more than willing to take on Glass, Hemmenway and Parker to bring this pilot group to where it belongs.â€

USA320Pilot comments: Anger and bitterness by BoeingBoy, Pilot, and people like they support such as the PHL Reps. has done nothing, nothing except give an airline management a concession greater than the “askâ€. This is the first time in the history of ALPA that an MEC via “roll call†vote, which was done more than 50 times during LOA 93 discussions, gave the company a concession more than the company wanted.

I know for fact that ALPA International looks at the so called “hardline†Reps as morons because you simply cannot “just say No†during bankruptcy proceedings. The creditors committee will not allow, which is why GECAS came in and forced removal of US Airways aircraft.

The ALPA advisor’s said each time the MEC rejected a company offer the next offer would be worse. Guess what? The Advisor’s batted 100% and the RC4 batted zero – that’s a fact.

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[hp_fa]

pilot group to where it belongs.â€￾

USA320Pilot comments: Anger and bitterness by BoeingBoy, Pilot, and people like they support such as the PHL Reps. has done nothing, nothing except give an airline management a concession greater than the “askâ€￾.
Best regards,

USA320Pilot

I'm sorry, but I have never seen anything but class escape from Boeing Boy's keyboard. I know he can defend his opinions. Can you?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Interesting glimpses into the mind....and character of individuals.

What to make of someone who consistently labels those who disagree with his opinions with such derogatory traits as angry, bitter, etc?

What to make of someone who lobbies for concessions "far in excess" of the "ask", votes for concessions believing they're in excess of the "ask", and then immediately seeks to cast blame for the result (assuming for a moment that the "give" was, if fact, greater than the "ask)?

Probably be interesting fodder for analysis.....

Jim

 

[PITbull]

USA320Pilot comments: Anger and bitterness by BoeingBoy, Pilot, and people like they support such as the PHL Reps. has done nothing, nothing except give an airline management a concession greater than the “askâ€￾. This is the first time in the history of ALPA that an MEC via “roll callâ€￾ vote, which was done more than 50 times during LOA 93 discussions, gave the company a concession more than the company wanted.


Best regards,

"USA320Pilot

C'mon 320, grow up already, for crying out loud. Every group gave more than the company asked originally. Why? Because we were in BK and the company knew they could. Every time any group came and countered the company, the "ask" increased and became a demand.

I wish my group would have voted down the agreement. But they didn't. The only thing that passed our AFA contract was a provision that gave 1200, or more if they wanted, a way out of this industry. There was only a 9% pass margin, and only approx 4,800 eligible voters. So those 1,200 who knew for sure thely wanted out...pushed it to a "ratified" contract. Otherwise, I am sure it would have failed and we would definitely had struck the airline...I would have ensured it.

What you have today with this management is the same old manuevering with Jerry Glass still leading the transition agreements. This managment will NOT negotiate with any union or group for improvements. They will just continue to use the investor monies, drive the stock up with hype and exaggerations, until they all cash-in, then the investors will look to merge again and again. Its a great racket, merging, every 5-6 years. Produces great stock pay days...just on pure speculation. DP was just talking about possible consolidation again. He's going to be looking for his big pay day too. Heck, as long as you have employees that percieive themselves as walmart workers to foot the fuel and subsidizing ticket prices,and think they are lucky to have a job, your in business.

These kinds of managments are not in business to operate a business other than to run it as a vehicle for their stock payout and then move on to the next company. The stock is where their incentive is and brainwashing is their business, from the employees to the wallstreet analysts and traders. BOD's are investors too and the payout is on the stock trade; not on company performance. So, company performance only matters to the worker, a pipe-dream, hoping for their pay day that never comes.

As long as you keep the rank and file down, brain wash them to believe they couldn't do any better any where ( and they're stupid enough to believe it), have the unions fight each other from within, there will be no improvements, ever.

That's how Jerry Glass did it, and he was pretty damn successful in bringing you up the ranks as the #1 Company cheerleader.

 

[supercruiser]

USA320Pilot posts some OPINIONS of another rep(a known outspoken member of the GAG who has probably never had an original thought) who he happens to agree with(big surprise), then takes offense when everyone piles on him. What did he expect, someone to agree with him (notice no one has or will)?

It really is laughable that he or anyone else that voted for the agreement that put them at the very bottom of pay and benefits for almost any airline left flying, has the stones to blame the harder line faction of the union for his misfortune. Talk about twisted logic. The really sad part is he and his buddies would have accepted even LESS!

If I was Jerry Glass, I'd just dig in my heels and wait for the next implosion; maybe throw out some offers that were worse than the previous ones. Worked like a charm last time.

 

[700UW]

Another short-sighted decision by ALPA's hardliners, which once again hurts fellow pilot's due to emotion and anger versus logic.
_________________________________________________________
USA320Pilot comments: Anger and bitterness by BoeingBoy, Pilot, and people like they support such as the PHL Reps. has done nothing, nothing except give an airline management a concession greater than the “askâ€￾. This is the first time in the history of ALPA that an MEC via “roll callâ€￾ vote, which was done more than 50 times during LOA 93 discussions, gave the company a concession more than the company wanted.
USA320Pilot

Gee I guess you forgot that Pollack and the MEC during the first bankruptcy and after two rounds of concessions already, they gave the company your pension, without a vote and that was greater then the ASK.

Dont let the facts get in your way.

 

[Freighterguynow]

this pilot group stands together and DEMANDS improvements while fully supporting a stoppage of work if it doesn't happen.


pilot

I didn't think a strike was allowable when combining the two contracts? Or, since the AWA folks would be starting section 6 without the merger - is it?

 

[700UW]

A strike is permissible when a federal judge declares a major dispute.

 

[Bear96]

USA320Pilot answers: You know why, but just try to be argumentative, like so many other disgruntled employees who luckily are in the minority. For a refresher, US Airways' ethics manual prohibits employees from posting their name on the internet according to Human Resource and Chief Pilot personnel.

Is that the only reason?

Only a coward would blindly obey a silly rule like that.

C'mon -- be a man! Post your name / payroll number / phone number / address for all here to see! Show us what it's like to be so brave and stand behind your words!

 

[USA320Pilot]

PITBull:

PITBull said: "Every group gave more than the company asked originally. Why? Because we were in BK and the company knew they could. Every time any group came and countered the company, the "ask" increased and became a demand."

USA320Pilot comments: You're right, which is why the ALPA Financial and Legal Advisor's, 100% of the MEC Officers, and two-third's of the MEC wanted to approved the company's first offer, which in the case of the pilots was the America West contract.

Every company counter got worse and you're right in your viewpoint. It's too bad the ALPA RC4 did not listen to every key ALPA official/advisor and now the pilot group is stuck trying to get the America West contract now plus some other benefit(s).

It's really a shame that the RC4 and their supporters hurt the pilot group so bad, but that is history.

Regardless, this topic is not about previous contracts, it's about the PHL Reps. posting misinformation again.

By the way, what would you do as a MEC president if an AFA LEC president was dishonest with their communications?

Separately, if my memory serves me correctly, this is at least the fifth time the PHL Reps. have posted misinformation. Three times they were publicly corrected for their purposeful mistakes by Jack Stephen, one time by Bill Pollock, and now one time by Garland Jones.

When would now be a good time for the PHL Reps. to be honests?

As William Shakespeare said, "No legacy is so rich as honesty."

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[BoeingBoy]

"USA320Pilot comments: You're right, which is why the ALPA Financial and Legal Advisor's, 100% of the MEC Officers, and two-third's of the MEC wanted to approved the company's first offer, which in the case of the pilots was the America West contract."

Interesting "twist" of history.....

The company made offers on 7/7/04, 7/22/04, 8/4/04, 8/6/04, 8/17/04, 8/22/04, 8/29/04, 8/31/04, 9/4/04, 9/6/04, revised 9/6/04, 9/10/04, 9/20/04, and 9/29/04.

So where is the proof that "the ALPA Financial and Legal Advisor's, 100% of the MEC Officers, and two-third's of the MEC wanted to approved the company's first offer".

Instead, we had this about 8/22-23:

"WHEREAS the MEC is supportive of the Negotiating Committee's August 21, 2004 proposal..."

Whoops, guess everyone wasn't ready to take "the company's first offer" yet.

Then on 9/12/04, in a letter to Bruce Ashby, there's this:

"Attached is a resolution passed by the MEC at a Special MEC Meeting today, Sept. 10, 2004. As stated in the resolution, the MEC believes that we made a good-faith effort to meet the Company’s concerns with our proposal of August 28, 2004."

Whoops, what happened to all those voices calling for accepting "the company's first offer"?

Talk about misinformation.....

Jim