ual747mech
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- Nov 26, 2002
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Bob
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All UAL wants for Christmas is Labor Agreements
- Thread starter UnitedChicago
- Start date
OP
UnitedChicago
Veteran
- Aug 27, 2002
- 756
- 0
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #35
Bob:
If you had your way, you wouldn't take a step back or forward, you'd fall on your ass and spin around like a turtle turned on its shell.
If you had your way, you wouldn't take a step back or forward, you'd fall on your ass and spin around like a turtle turned on its shell.
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/23/2002 10:44:43 AM UnitedChicago wrote:
Bob:
If you had your way, you wouldn't take a step back or forward, you'd fall on your ass and spin around like a turtle turned on its shell.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Here in NY that's called Break-Dancing. What's the point? Still trying to talk UA workers to work for less in the hopes that your ticket prices go down?
----------------
On 12/23/2002 10:44:43 AM UnitedChicago wrote:
Bob:
If you had your way, you wouldn't take a step back or forward, you'd fall on your ass and spin around like a turtle turned on its shell.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Here in NY that's called Break-Dancing. What's the point? Still trying to talk UA workers to work for less in the hopes that your ticket prices go down?
OP
UnitedChicago
Veteran
- Aug 27, 2002
- 756
- 0
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #38
Bob:
Yes of course, that's why I want labor to agree to concessions - so I can pay less for a ticket.
Get real. I want the opportunity to continue purchasing tickets at United. And for that to occur, labor must make concessions. Yes...including the mechanics.
Yes of course, that's why I want labor to agree to concessions - so I can pay less for a ticket.
Get real. I want the opportunity to continue purchasing tickets at United. And for that to occur, labor must make concessions. Yes...including the mechanics.
ual747mech
Senior
- Nov 26, 2002
- 279
- 0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/22/2002 8:02:06 PM Bob Owens wrote:
[blockquote]
----------------
The problem with the concessions was the fact that they were to last until 2008.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Hey Bob!! Now that we are in bankruptcy the company is proposing to us the mechanics 13% and other hard cash plus drastic benefit changes that will last until 2009. We got till mid February to work things out or risk our contract getting voided.
Now do you know why I would rather work things out outside of bankruptcy court? I want to minimize the paycut as much as possible you idiot!!
----------------
On 12/22/2002 8:02:06 PM Bob Owens wrote:
[blockquote]
----------------
The problem with the concessions was the fact that they were to last until 2008.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Hey Bob!! Now that we are in bankruptcy the company is proposing to us the mechanics 13% and other hard cash plus drastic benefit changes that will last until 2009. We got till mid February to work things out or risk our contract getting voided.
Now do you know why I would rather work things out outside of bankruptcy court? I want to minimize the paycut as much as possible you idiot!!
ual747mech
Senior
- Nov 26, 2002
- 279
- 0
Bob
Tim Thorpe
Member
- Aug 20, 2002
- 53
- 0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/21/2002 1:28:49 AM Boomer wrote:
The point is that a bandaid was never gonna fix the problems.
What is the purpose of going through all the bs and drama of voting yourself concessions that are not going to fix anything?
Is this really just a pavlovian reflex exercise in which management just keeps shocking the workers until whatever they want to do becomes OK?
----------------
[/blockquote]
Yes it is. Only the union is also involved. You are correct.
----------------
On 12/21/2002 1:28:49 AM Boomer wrote:
The point is that a bandaid was never gonna fix the problems.
What is the purpose of going through all the bs and drama of voting yourself concessions that are not going to fix anything?
Is this really just a pavlovian reflex exercise in which management just keeps shocking the workers until whatever they want to do becomes OK?
----------------
[/blockquote]
Yes it is. Only the union is also involved. You are correct.
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/23/2002 4:42:02 PM ual747mech wrote:
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/22/2002 8:02:06 PM Bob Owens wrote:
[blockquote]
----------------
The problem with the concessions was the fact that they were to last until 2008.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Hey Bob!! Now that we are in bankruptcy the company is proposing to us the mechanics 13% and other hard cash plus drastic benefit changes that will last until 2009. We got till mid February to work things out or risk our contract getting voided.
Now do you know why I would rather work things out outside of bankruptcy court? I want to minimize the paycut as much as possible you idiot!!
----------------
[/blockquote]
If you agree to changes, in effect, you are agreeing to void the contract anyway. What guarantee do you have that two months down the road they dont come back for a little more, like USAIR is doing? At what point do you say NO? In the end you will end up losing it all in dribs and drabs. Its like they say about a frog in a pot of water, if you put it in the water when its cool and turn up the heat it will stay in till it dies but if you try to throw it in boiling water it will jump out. Well if the company tried to take it all back in one shot, they would probably face a strike, and extinction, but if they take it all back a little at a time they will likely avoid a confrontation.
Lets say UAL does get the contract abrogated, what are they likely to go after? More than likely rule changes and more layoffs. If you vote in the concessions they will also get the rule changes, just wait a few months. How far would they push it? As far as they can. They will keep using the threat of abrogating the agreement in its entirety while they end up getting everything they really want anyway. Whatever they get they will keep till 2009 if you freely give it to them. Right now they are holding the gun to your head, you have the same weapon in yours, you can either drop it or use it to make a standoff. Concessions to get the company back on its feet is one thing, concessions for 7 years is another. You can give them 7 more years of your life at a discount and still find yourself starting over somewhere else. In 94 you gave them a concessionary deal, they went on to make record profits, when your contract became amendable they managed to drag talks out until they were losing money. Now they want another long term concessionary contract. Once they get it, if they turn around and start making profits again you are stuck with the deal till 2009.
The fact is that once they impose their contract you can strike at any time. So you go out tomorrow or you can wait six months, or any time between now and 2009 and get back whatever they take. Even if the economy rebounds the Airline still could not weather a strike, why do you think all the other big airlines are pushing for S-1327?
----------------
On 12/23/2002 4:42:02 PM ual747mech wrote:
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/22/2002 8:02:06 PM Bob Owens wrote:
[blockquote]
----------------
The problem with the concessions was the fact that they were to last until 2008.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Hey Bob!! Now that we are in bankruptcy the company is proposing to us the mechanics 13% and other hard cash plus drastic benefit changes that will last until 2009. We got till mid February to work things out or risk our contract getting voided.
Now do you know why I would rather work things out outside of bankruptcy court? I want to minimize the paycut as much as possible you idiot!!
----------------
[/blockquote]
If you agree to changes, in effect, you are agreeing to void the contract anyway. What guarantee do you have that two months down the road they dont come back for a little more, like USAIR is doing? At what point do you say NO? In the end you will end up losing it all in dribs and drabs. Its like they say about a frog in a pot of water, if you put it in the water when its cool and turn up the heat it will stay in till it dies but if you try to throw it in boiling water it will jump out. Well if the company tried to take it all back in one shot, they would probably face a strike, and extinction, but if they take it all back a little at a time they will likely avoid a confrontation.
Lets say UAL does get the contract abrogated, what are they likely to go after? More than likely rule changes and more layoffs. If you vote in the concessions they will also get the rule changes, just wait a few months. How far would they push it? As far as they can. They will keep using the threat of abrogating the agreement in its entirety while they end up getting everything they really want anyway. Whatever they get they will keep till 2009 if you freely give it to them. Right now they are holding the gun to your head, you have the same weapon in yours, you can either drop it or use it to make a standoff. Concessions to get the company back on its feet is one thing, concessions for 7 years is another. You can give them 7 more years of your life at a discount and still find yourself starting over somewhere else. In 94 you gave them a concessionary deal, they went on to make record profits, when your contract became amendable they managed to drag talks out until they were losing money. Now they want another long term concessionary contract. Once they get it, if they turn around and start making profits again you are stuck with the deal till 2009.
The fact is that once they impose their contract you can strike at any time. So you go out tomorrow or you can wait six months, or any time between now and 2009 and get back whatever they take. Even if the economy rebounds the Airline still could not weather a strike, why do you think all the other big airlines are pushing for S-1327?
ual747mech
Senior
- Nov 26, 2002
- 279
- 0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/24/2002 1:18:05 PM Bob Owens wrote:
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/23/2002 4:42:02 PM ual747mech wrote:
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/22/2002 8:02:06 PM Bob Owens wrote:
[blockquote]
----------------
The problem with the concessions was the fact that they were to last until 2008.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Hey Bob!! Now that we are in bankruptcy the company is proposing to us the mechanics 13% and other hard cash plus drastic benefit changes that will last until 2009. We got till mid February to work things out or risk our contract getting voided.
Now do you know why I would rather work things out outside of bankruptcy court? I want to minimize the paycut as much as possible you idiot!!
----------------
[/blockquote]
If you agree to changes, in effect, you are agreeing to void the contract anyway. What guarantee do you have that two months down the road they dont come back for a little more, like USAIR is doing? At what point do you say NO? In the end you will end up losing it all in dribs and drabs. Its like they say about a frog in a pot of water, if you put it in the water when its cool and turn up the heat it will stay in till it dies but if you try to throw it in boiling water it will jump out. Well if the company tried to take it all back in one shot, they would probably face a strike, and extinction, but if they take it all back a little at a time they will likely avoid a confrontation.
Lets say UAL does get the contract abrogated, what are they likely to go after? More than likely rule changes and more layoffs. If you vote in the concessions they will also get the rule changes, just wait a few months. How far would they push it? As far as they can. They will keep using the threat of abrogating the agreement in its entirety while they end up getting everything they really want anyway. Whatever they get they will keep till 2009 if you freely give it to them. Right now they are holding the gun to your head, you have the same weapon in yours, you can either drop it or use it to make a standoff. Concessions to get the company back on its feet is one thing, concessions for 7 years is another. You can give them 7 more years of your life at a discount and still find yourself starting over somewhere else. In 94 you gave them a concessionary deal, they went on to make record profits, when your contract became amendable they managed to drag talks out until they were losing money. Now they want another long term concessionary contract. Once they get it, if they turn around and start making profits again you are stuck with the deal till 2009.
The fact is that once they impose their contract you can strike at any time. So you go out tomorrow or you can wait six months, or any time between now and 2009 and get back whatever they take. Even if the economy rebounds the Airline still could not weather a strike, why do you think all the other big airlines are pushing for S-1327?
----------------
[/blockquote]
Hey Bob!! It's not that simple as you make it seem to be!
The best thing to do is to wait and see what the Unions and the company works out and see what they have to say about whatever agreement they work out. They're the ones who can best look at the matters in front of us. They have their attorneys and financial advisers looking at whether what the Company is proposing to us is fair and necessary.
----------------
On 12/24/2002 1:18:05 PM Bob Owens wrote:
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/23/2002 4:42:02 PM ual747mech wrote:
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/22/2002 8:02:06 PM Bob Owens wrote:
[blockquote]
----------------
The problem with the concessions was the fact that they were to last until 2008.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Hey Bob!! Now that we are in bankruptcy the company is proposing to us the mechanics 13% and other hard cash plus drastic benefit changes that will last until 2009. We got till mid February to work things out or risk our contract getting voided.
Now do you know why I would rather work things out outside of bankruptcy court? I want to minimize the paycut as much as possible you idiot!!
----------------
[/blockquote]
If you agree to changes, in effect, you are agreeing to void the contract anyway. What guarantee do you have that two months down the road they dont come back for a little more, like USAIR is doing? At what point do you say NO? In the end you will end up losing it all in dribs and drabs. Its like they say about a frog in a pot of water, if you put it in the water when its cool and turn up the heat it will stay in till it dies but if you try to throw it in boiling water it will jump out. Well if the company tried to take it all back in one shot, they would probably face a strike, and extinction, but if they take it all back a little at a time they will likely avoid a confrontation.
Lets say UAL does get the contract abrogated, what are they likely to go after? More than likely rule changes and more layoffs. If you vote in the concessions they will also get the rule changes, just wait a few months. How far would they push it? As far as they can. They will keep using the threat of abrogating the agreement in its entirety while they end up getting everything they really want anyway. Whatever they get they will keep till 2009 if you freely give it to them. Right now they are holding the gun to your head, you have the same weapon in yours, you can either drop it or use it to make a standoff. Concessions to get the company back on its feet is one thing, concessions for 7 years is another. You can give them 7 more years of your life at a discount and still find yourself starting over somewhere else. In 94 you gave them a concessionary deal, they went on to make record profits, when your contract became amendable they managed to drag talks out until they were losing money. Now they want another long term concessionary contract. Once they get it, if they turn around and start making profits again you are stuck with the deal till 2009.
The fact is that once they impose their contract you can strike at any time. So you go out tomorrow or you can wait six months, or any time between now and 2009 and get back whatever they take. Even if the economy rebounds the Airline still could not weather a strike, why do you think all the other big airlines are pushing for S-1327?
----------------
[/blockquote]
Hey Bob!! It's not that simple as you make it seem to be!
The best thing to do is to wait and see what the Unions and the company works out and see what they have to say about whatever agreement they work out. They're the ones who can best look at the matters in front of us. They have their attorneys and financial advisers looking at whether what the Company is proposing to us is fair and necessary.
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