Al Gore

delldude said:
Calculate to some approximation the total thermal signature put out by mankind via autos,factories,etc.

Calculate the total volume of earth's oceans.....

Now figure out how many BTU's it would take to raise that volume of ocean one degree and see where mankind's input falls and get back to me about man causing GW.
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I am pretty sure that is not the way it works. Everything I have read reffers to the upper layer of the oceans waters top 200 +/- feet. The life sustained below that level is not nearly as dependant on plankton, alge and the other microrganisms. IIRC there are currents at deeper levels where the temp change is dramatic (I think subs use it for cloaking their signatures). The minor temp fluctuations on the surface of the ocean can have dramatic affects on the alge blooms which are basis for huge feeding cycles for the food chain. There was a chapter in the Discovery Earth series that described/showed it quite well.

I have been looking into starting up a marine aquarium and everything I have read indicates that temperature fluctuations are one of the primary concerns.

I am not so certain than you can just look at the output of a site as your sole determination. What about the forests that have been clear cut. What about all the concrete laid out for roads? What about the pollutants put in the waters and the grounds? What about all the animals that have been eliminated due to loss of habitat or hunting? There are so many other factors that have an effect on our environment.

When you look at nearly any animal (human included) there seem to have evolved to function with in a very narrow spectrum. Humans can only see a narrow band of light, survive with in a narrow temp range (with out needing additional protection)….etc. The same can be said of most animals on the planet. I think an argument could be made that the planet could be viewed the same way. The sea-saw we call the eco-system may have evolved to operate under a somewhat narrow scope. If that equilibrium is disturbed beyond its ability to compensate, it could knock the entire cycle off and send it into a tail spin. The planet will survive. And in all likely hood life will survive as well albeit in a quite limited state and only the most hardy would make it. Eventually in a few thousand years or so the planet might repair its self or other life forms may evolve to the new conditions. Either way, we may or may not make it.

Like I said before, are we so sure that the GW folks are wrong? Are we willing to stake our survival as a species on it?
 
signals said:
One more note:Humans can naturally adapt to the changing weather condition. Those who can't are meant to be extinct according to the natural order of things. Too hot, use an ac. Too cold, turn on the heat. I dream of the day that NY weather is bright and sunny and in the 80s year round!
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On a frigid day in Chicago, like today, I cannot help but agree. One more of those volcanos though may put us in parkas during August.
 
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Garfield1966 said:
I am pretty sure that is not the way it works. Everything I have read reffers to the upper layer of the oceans waters top 200 +/- feet. The life sustained below that level is not nearly as dependant on plankton, alge and the other microrganisms. IIRC there are currents at deeper levels where the temp change is dramatic (I think subs use it for cloaking their signatures). The minor temp fluctuations on the surface of the ocean can have dramatic affects on the alge blooms which are basis for huge feeding cycles for the food chain. There was a chapter in the Discovery Earth series that described/showed it quite well.

I have been looking into starting up a marine aquarium and everything I have read indicates that temperature fluctuations are one of the primary concerns.

I am not so certain than you can just look at the output of a site as your sole determination. What about the forests that have been clear cut. What about all the concrete laid out for roads? What about the pollutants put in the waters and the grounds? What about all the animals that have been eliminated due to loss of habitat or hunting? There are so many other factors that have an effect on our environment.

When you look at nearly any animal (human included) there seem to have evolved to function with in a very narrow spectrum. Humans can only see a narrow band of light, survive with in a narrow temp range (with out needing additional protection)….etc. The same can be said of most animals on the planet. I think an argument could be made that the planet could be viewed the same way. The sea-saw we call the eco-system may have evolved to operate under a somewhat narrow scope. If that equilibrium is disturbed beyond its ability to compensate, it could knock the entire cycle off and send it into a tail spin. The planet will survive. And in all likely hood life will survive as well albeit in a quite limited state and only the most hardy would make it. Eventually in a few thousand years or so the planet might repair its self or other life forms may evolve to the new conditions. Either way, we may or may not make it.

Like I said before, are we so sure that the GW folks are wrong? Are we willing to stake our survival as a species on it?
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Ok,then calculate it with only 200 foot volume.....

You know every foot one goes up in altitude there is a corresponding temp drop just like inversely in the ocean....wow,see how complex its getting already?
And these clowns are correct-a-mundo?
Its still a crock.

Thermal workings in the mantle and solar radiation to the oceans.
 
So man is not having an affect on the earth? It is all theoretical since present technology cannot take into account all the variables. To say that what ever mans affect on the planet is what it is and we should make no attempt to contain or reverse is foolish. I do not know if the scientists are right or not. If they are wrong and we make attempts to clean up our planet the only thing that can happen is we have a cleaner planet. If they are right and we do nothing we may be signing our death warrant. Personally I would find it embarrassing to have to look future generations in the eye and tell them tat due to our stupidity and greed we just really did not care what happened to them.

Aside from the warming issue there is also the issue of clean water, clean air, and availability of food. These issues are all interrelated with each other. If one breaks down they all do. I was watching a Discovery program and the most pressing issue facing the planet today is clean water.

If we continue destroying our home at the present rate, we will not have to worry about warming as we will all likely be dead anyway.
 
Garfield1966 said:
Personally I would find it embarrassing to have to look future generations in the eye and tell them tat due to our stupidity and greed we just really did not care what happened to them.

Aside from the warming issue there is also the issue of clean water, clean air, and availability of food. These issues are all interrelated with each other. If one breaks down they all do. I was watching a Discovery program and the most pressing issue facing the planet today is clean water.

If we continue destroying our home at the present rate, we will not have to worry about warming as we will all likely be dead anyway.
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Amen, amen AMEN. Does man play a role in global warming? Maybe, maybe not. But man plays a very large role in polluting this planet..as well as using up resources as if we were the last generation to need them.
 
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Garfield1966 said:
So man is not having an affect on the earth? It is all theoretical since present technology cannot take into account all the variables. To say that what ever mans affect on the planet is what it is and we should make no attempt to contain or reverse is foolish. I do not know if the scientists are right or not. If they are wrong and we make attempts to clean up our planet the only thing that can happen is we have a cleaner planet. If they are right and we do nothing we may be signing our death warrant. Personally I would find it embarrassing to have to look future generations in the eye and tell them tat due to our stupidity and greed we just really did not care what happened to them.

Aside from the warming issue there is also the issue of clean water, clean air, and availability of food. These issues are all interrelated with each other. If one breaks down they all do. I was watching a Discovery program and the most pressing issue facing the planet today is clean water.

If we continue destroying our home at the present rate, we will not have to worry about warming as we will all likely be dead anyway.
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You know Gar....I remember as a little boy going up to Lake Erie and catching fish with growth's and
what not....the Cuyahoga river actually caught fire....dust in the air from Pittsburgh's slag dumps and mills....not to mention the 20's and 30's.They got on the steel industry for thermal pollution into the local rivers here.....so big steel spent all this friggin' money and in the 70's the rivers all froze and marine traffic came to a halt.Everybody dropped a load.(they bring alot of gas and oil via barge not to mention coal and such for power plants)
So our country is leading the world in pollution control technology...yes we may use more energy than other countries but we produce alot too.
So go look into the Kyoto accords and see what restrictions they want on US while most of the other countries get a free pass to pollute and destroy only while we're penalized.
Capitalistic growth in the third world is the most dangerous form of pollution today.Your gov't makes all these rules and reg's,so the businessman does whats more prudent....finds lax laws,cheap labor...WTF do you expect?
Yes we should live on this earth and respect it and limit our footprint.....but just remember,every living thing, no matter how big or small has some impact on this environment.
 
Since I haven't got the hang of this board, yet, let me quote something from my response at #118!

Well, well, looks like I might have actually hit the nail on the head in a sense...

I wrote: Let's say, for the sake of arguement, that MAN is at total fault for global warming, and YOU truly believe it. Why are you working in the airline industry? I say planes and jets are the main culprits to global warming. Let's talk about the clean air jet fuel causes. Why don't NASA scientists give us the figures reguarding shuttle launches and other 'clean' global warming fuels? It would seem hypocritical to target certain causes and conveniently leave out others. The causes they target become less efficient and cost us more in the long run. Did it ever occur to people that in the long run, your cause costs peoples' jobs and is why most industries move to China where pollution is common? Remember that a scientist that endorses gw isn't going to want to lose that billion dollar grant to prove his point.

So check this out! :blink:
 
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When I was in the Jet engine repair business....I remember the PWA JT8's 9A or 13 or 15...I don't exactly remember now,but they had improved fuel nozzles and higher temperature hot sections to reduce the signature dirty exhaust plume.
Also,the high bypass ratio engines used almost exclusively provide more thrust and less fuel usage and lower air pollution.
 
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Curious...no North Pole ice....why isn't the eastern seaboard under 20 foot of water,Al?

Duh,Al....


Somebody's full of hot air and it isn't the planet..... :eek:
 
Seatacus said:
Global Cooling?????

Can someone please make a decision. Is it warming or cooling? :unsure:
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global-jan-dec-error-bar-pg.gif
 
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