Aircraft maint issues

[WeAAsles]

Maharis grew up flying remote-controlled airplanes and said he knew from childhood that he wanted to work in aviation. He said he's considering going to college online but is so far holding off.

Maharis is a graduate of Aviation High School in the Long Island City section of Queens. The school has been training students to become aircraft mechanics since the 1930s, and puts students on track to receive licenses required by the Federal Aviation Administration to fix engines and airframes. Some students stay on for a fifth year.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/03/air...|finance|headline|story|&par=yahoo&yptr=yahoo

 

[topDawg]

It’s been said before, AA is in the airline business, not the MRO business. According to Parker.

Look at the labor cost of an airline mechanic as opposed to a MRO mechanic, there’s a significant difference. That’s just the differences that you learn in an aviation management course. Now think what you learn from the AFW/TAESL mechs around the system. None of that info is, we were so efficient. It’s more in the ways of, we choked every last golden egg out of that chicken.

You keep beating this drum and beating this drum

But Delta is the largest MRO in North America and pays more than you get from American.

But hey, keep on trying to cut your own throat for whatever reason you do that. Once Parker guts base maintenance guess who he will be coming for next? Your beloved line. AAR and HAECO do line work too.

 

[bigjets]

You keep beating this drum and beating this drum

But Delta is the largest MRO in North America and pays more than you get from American.

But hey, keep on trying to cut your own throat for whatever reason you do that. Once Parker guts base maintenance guess who he will be coming for next? Your beloved line. AAR and HAECO do line work too.

AA farms out less then any other airline.

In a perfect world and if every CEO operated the way you think they should, all airlines would operate like they did in the 80s and 90s. Everybody got paid the same and all airlines did their own maint. We have new realities post 9/11 post 2008 recession. That reality is we work for America West under the name of AA. Our CEO doesn’t believe in doing ALL OUR OWN OH. I wish we did but we don’t. Tulsa screwed us all in 95 by agreeing to the SRP program when they took all the ship work from all stations like ORD SFO LAX DFW and moved the work to Tulsa and given to SRPs cutting the heads from those stations. But don’t worry I’m sure Tulsa will be fine.

Knowing what the ceo has said about OH maint isn’t beating a drum.

 

[topDawg]

AA farms out less then any other airline.

today. get back to me when you get a JCBA and Joint scope.

In a perfect world and if every CEO operated the way you think they should, all airlines would operate like they did in the 80s and 90s. Everybody got paid the same and all airlines did their own maint. We have new realities post 9/11 post 2008 recession. That reality is we work for America West under the name of AA. Our CEO doesn’t believe in doing ALL OUR OWN OH. I wish we did but we don’t. Tulsa screwed us all in 95 by agreeing to the SRP program when they took all the ship work from all stations like ORD SFO LAX DFW and moved the work to Tulsa and given to SRPs cutting the heads from those stations. But don’t worry I’m sure Tulsa will be fine.

two things, one good lord move on from what happened in 1995. Work moves. It moves all the time. Shops open. Shops close.
I'm going to make an educated guess that moving whatever was moved to Tulsa probably cut cost. In general it is insanely stupid to operate multiple shops across multiple locations unless you have a ton of volume, American doesn't have that volume.
I like how you lecture me on the "realities post 9/11 post 2008 recession" but then complain about something that happened in 1995 that was probably a significant cost saving for your maintenance department. Oh but "Tulsa terk er jerbs"! Welcome to the airline industry.

second, none of that has anything to do with what you said. You said "
Look at the labor cost of an airline mechanic as opposed to a MRO mechanic, there’s a significant difference."
that is simply bull crap. Fact is Delta is a perfect example of why that quote is bull crap. As a matter of fact most of the largest MROs in the world are airline MROs with airline mechanics.

but it also shows your lack of general understanding of what is happening in the marketplace. Mechanics are drying up and we haven't even hit the big retirement bubbles for the big three. MROs are consolidating like mad and costs are going up. Capacity is also coming OUT of the MRO marketplace as the MROs consolidate down.
This isn't 2005. Labor costs are sky rocketing with no end in sight.

Knowing what the ceo has said about OH maint isn’t beating a drum.

Your CEO and your president have been feeding you all a bunch of crap hoping that your union and the mechanics at American will be stupid enough to buy it, vote for it and own it.
They want you all on the streets and are feeding you all kinds of questionable (at best) numbers to get you to cut your own throat.

 

[bigjets]

today. get back to me when you get a JCBA and Joint scope.


two things, one good lord move on from what happened in 1995. Work moves. It moves all the time. Shops open. Shops close.
I'm going to make an educated guess that moving whatever was moved to Tulsa probably cut cost. In general it is insanely stupid to operate multiple shops across multiple locations unless you have a ton of volume, American doesn't have that volume.
I like how you lecture me on the "realities post 9/11 post 2008 recession" but then complain about something that happened in 1995 that was probably a significant cost saving for your maintenance department. Oh but "Tulsa terk er jerbs"! Welcome to the airline industry.

second, none of that has anything to do with what you said. You said "
Look at the labor cost of an airline mechanic as opposed to a MRO mechanic, there’s a significant difference."
that is simply bull crap. Fact is Delta is a perfect example of why that quote is bull crap. As a matter of fact most of the largest MROs in the world are airline MROs with airline mechanics.

but it also shows your lack of general understanding of what is happening in the marketplace. Mechanics are drying up and we haven't even hit the big retirement bubbles for the big three. MROs are consolidating like mad and costs are going up. Capacity is also coming OUT of the MRO marketplace as the MROs consolidate down.
This isn't 2005. Labor costs are sky rocketing with no end in sight.

Your CEO and your president have been feeding you all a bunch of crap hoping that your union and the mechanics at American will be stupid enough to buy it, vote for it and own it.
They want you all on the streets and are feeding you all kinds of questionable (at best) numbers to get you to cut your own throat.

Are you saying AAR and TIMCO are paying $48 an hour?

I guess you don’t know anyone that works in aviation outside of aa. Don’t believe in your own rhetoric so much that you lose site of reality. I suggest you look up what Senator Inhoff of OK is doing with aircraft maint. And how they’re trying to make it easier for companies.

With all the recent attacks on foreign trade and tariffs, there has been no talk of stopping the outsourcing to S America or stopping USA airlines from outsourcing to other USA MROs.

Just a fact.

 

[Rogallo]

Your CEO and your president have been feeding you all a bunch of crap hoping that your union and the mechanics at American will be stupid enough to buy it, vote for it and own it.
They want you all on the streets and are feeding you all kinds of questionable (at best) numbers to get you to cut your own throat.

 

[Buck]

First the

AA farms out less then any other airline.

In a perfect world and if every CEO operated the way you think they should, all airlines would operate like they did in the 80s and 90s. Everybody got paid the same and all airlines did their own maint. We have new realities post 9/11 post 2008 recession. That reality is we work for America West under the name of AA. Our CEO doesn’t believe in doing ALL OUR OWN OH. I wish we did but we don’t. Tulsa screwed us all in 95 by agreeing to the SRP program when they took all the ship work from all stations like ORD SFO LAX DFW and moved the work to Tulsa and given to SRPs cutting the heads from those stations. But don’t worry I’m sure Tulsa will be fine.

Knowing what the ceo has said about OH maint isn’t beating a drum.

Tulsa stays open for different reasons. If the discussion is only about wages and other labor costs, then there would be a point concerning the existence of keeping the Overhaul in-house. Actually, the Mechanic at half wages was introduced in the 1983 contract, if not before. This was called the "B-Scale and year over year the "C-Scale" was introduced etc.. Then your 1995 SRP was introduced and I really wish you would change the structure of your Tulsa statement to something similar to the TWU at Tulsa and the International. The company prior to your American West has always had the TWU membership fighting against and amongst each other. Yes, there are still Idiots that have to yell at the CEO and his team about saving Tulsa at the behest of the Line. The amount of work in-house is beneficial to the company in a few ways. Having more control over the parts and their repair, but that has been drastically farmed out. Having a half paid workforce and not paying them License Premiums and the fact that the state of Oklahoma and the city of Tulsa renew funding through tax legislation. If Tulsa were to close the equivalent of Owasso and a good chunk of Broken Arrow would be decimated, which stops Labor paid taxes, let alone a Bankruptcy figure of 13:1 of Mom and Pop business disappearing. In other words "Tulsa" is practically free to the company. But we do not have the cost of Fleet Service.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

First the


Tulsa stays open for different reasons. If the discussion is only about wages and other labor costs, then there would be a point concerning the existence of keeping the Overhaul in-house. Actually, the Mechanic at half wages was introduced in the 1983 contract, if not before. This was called the "B-Scale and year over year the "C-Scale" was introduced etc.. Then your 1995 SRP was introduced and I really wish you would change the structure of your Tulsa statement to something similar to the TWU at Tulsa and the International. The company prior to your American West has always had the TWU membership fighting against and amongst each other. Yes, there are still Idiots that have to yell at the CEO and his team about saving Tulsa at the behest of the Line. The amount of work in-house is beneficial to the company in a few ways. Having more control over the parts and their repair, but that has been drastically farmed out. Having a half paid workforce and not paying them License Premiums and the fact that the state of Oklahoma and the city of Tulsa renew funding through tax legislation. If Tulsa were to close the equivalent of Owasso and a good chunk of Broken Arrow would be decimated, which stops Labor paid taxes, let alone a Bankruptcy figure of 13:1 of Mom and Pop business disappearing. In other words "Tulsa" is practically free to the company. But we do not have the cost of Fleet Service.

Correction, you don't have the cost of Fleet Service anymore.

 

[UPNAWAY]

AA farms out less then any other airline.

In a perfect world and if every CEO operated the way you think they should, all airlines would operate like they did in the 80s and 90s. Everybody got paid the same and all airlines did their own maint. We have new realities post 9/11 post 2008 recession. That reality is we work for America West under the name of AA. Our CEO doesn’t believe in doing ALL OUR OWN OH. I wish we did but we don’t. Tulsa screwed us all in 95 by agreeing to the SRP program when they took all the ship work from all stations like ORD SFO LAX DFW and moved the work to Tulsa and given to SRPs cutting the heads from those stations. But don’t worry I’m sure Tulsa will be fine.

Knowing what the ceo has said about OH maint isn’t beating a drum.

The 80's-90's does not equal the good old days.
That was a bloodbath of job loses and companies folding up shop permanently.

There probably has never been a better time to just starting an aviation career than right now.

 

[bigjets]

The 80's-90's does not equal the good old days.
That was a bloodbath of job loses and companies folding up shop permanently.

There probably has never been a better time to just starting an aviation career than right now.

Don’t let anybody tell you different, working at an airline is the top of the heap as far as A&P work goes. That’s why all those mechs from PIT MCO AFW and TAESL scattered through out AAs system and commute to Texas and Kansas City. They would rather have have a part time home life in Texas and work in Philidalphia Miami Chicago LA. Then leave the airline industry.

Of course they complain like liberals that they’re owed something because they chose to commute.

 

[bigjets]

The 80's-90's does not equal the good old days.
That was a bloodbath of job loses and companies folding up shop permanently.

There probably has never been a better time to just starting an aviation career than right now.

It was a time where all airlines did there own maint yes laidoff but they all came back.

I wish we had the AFW guys work somewhere else other then aa, then they would realize how good they had it.

There are some guys that complain about the TWU but I doubt they could have kept their jobs other wise. Look at the biggest complainers and think “ would I pay that guy to work for me?”

 

[bigjets]

First the


Tulsa stays open for different reasons. If the discussion is only about wages and other labor costs, then there would be a point concerning the existence of keeping the Overhaul in-house. Actually, the Mechanic at half wages was introduced in the 1983 contract, if not before. This was called the "B-Scale and year over year the "C-Scale" was introduced etc.. Then your 1995 SRP was introduced and I really wish you would change the structure of your Tulsa statement to something similar to the TWU at Tulsa and the International. The company prior to your American West has always had the TWU membership fighting against and amongst each other. Yes, there are still Idiots that have to yell at the CEO and his team about saving Tulsa at the behest of the Line. The amount of work in-house is beneficial to the company in a few ways. Having more control over the parts and their repair, but that has been drastically farmed out. Having a half paid workforce and not paying them License Premiums and the fact that the state of Oklahoma and the city of Tulsa renew funding through tax legislation. If Tulsa were to close the equivalent of Owasso and a good chunk of Broken Arrow would be decimated, which stops Labor paid taxes, let alone a Bankruptcy figure of 13:1 of Mom and Pop business disappearing. In other words "Tulsa" is practically free to the company. But we do not have the cost of Fleet Service.

It’s unfortunate that there are so many voices from TUL saying, if you don’t like it move to Tulsa. But we should all get over it including me. We all are in a different airline world now.

 

[Buck]

It’s unfortunate that there are so many voices from TUL saying, if you don’t like it move to Tulsa. But we should all get over it including me. We all are in a different airline world now.

Yes, it would be difficult to pinpoint individuals although I see one or two ever so often.
Most of the rhetoric coming out of TULE during a company Town Hall is usually those that cannot leave to work the Line. Many years ago a contract under Article 15 Reduction in Force laid out the movement. The Machinist (a non-mechanic and qualified on one or more machines) has the ability to bump A&P's and vice-versa, however, there are not too many A&P's that are machine qualified, Basically a one-way move. This group are usually vocal at the town hall and making comment about the Line. I knew one of the Shop stewards that is a mechanic was one that made the "Keep Tulsa open" remark. Point being that it is the union reps that were the noisemakers encouraging the Industrial Unionists to reduce the Line to keep TULE open ( I want to clear up something. TUL is the customer side, TULE is the Maintenance side. Anyway if worked properly the Line is bigger than TULE.
I have wondered if mechanics working directly on the aircraft would get Line pay. Then there may be regional compensation.

 

[2ndGENAMT]

Just noticed the Title1 seniority list has an AMT hired on 9/04 in TULE.
You see the occasional CL hire in TULE but it's been a VERY long time since an AMT was hired.

 

[1AA]

Another issue we have. No scheduled negotiations for the month of September.
So what's the plan now from the Association? We are just going to sit and wait for? How much longer is this pathetic pace of negotiations going to continue for the AMT'S? I'm not interested in anything fleet service or stores. I want to see progress in our group. Three years of hello and see ya next time negotiations at the round table have got to come to an end.