Aircraft maint issues

[bob@las-AA]

Given your statement, why would you be on the Aircraft Maintenance thread reading comments much less posting?

I see you add lies to justify your post. I have never seen anyone claim to be the most important cog in the machine. On a thread titled "Aircraft Maintenance issues" imagine an AMT defending his trade - not really a stretch. Most of us have seen the tactics employed by the industrial unions to prevent the AMFA representing AMTs from becoming like the ALPA is for the pilots around the industry. Your chosen tactic, the guilt trip accusation. Usually followed up by the elitist accusation.

Try sticking to the Fleet Service thread if you don't like AMTs bitching. I stay off the FSC thread, and have never posted on it. I don't presuppose to tell you how you should think or vote. Much less, tell you how much you should make, and post unrelated salary charts like some of your comrades do.

Stay Off????
NEVER!

 

[Vortilon]

Vort this is the reality I see when I look over at that group over there. They outsource between 75 to 80% of their Maintenance spend. Yea I get the point that guys here don't want to be a bunch of Socialists and support jobs for everyone who wants to pick up a nut and a bolt out of an old coffee can, but they're ridiculous over there with the lack of jobs they got.

And SWA management wants even more of their jobs cause they feed on the greed the higher up guys go on that totem pole.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business...ill-negotiating-new-contract-four-years-talks

They have never known any other way. That goes back to the days when they were represented by the IBT. At least with the AMFA, they are adding to their in house heavy check capability. You might have a point if they had a high percentage of in-house heavy maintenance early on, and somehow managed to lose it. That's not the case though.

 

[WeAAsles]

They have never known any other way. That goes back to the days when they were represented by the IBT. At least with the AMFA, they are adding to their in house heavy check capability. You might have a point if they had a high percentage of in-house heavy maintenance early on, and somehow managed to lose it. That's not the case though.

You're right and I'm not going to argue the point but what have the people who took over really done then to make any dramatic improvements besides a small handful of jobs that the Company agreed to for whatever reason?

How did the AMFA (And I'm not trying to be a wise ass) make any dramatic improvements since they got in with a company that's never lost money, never filed BK and the last contract was negotiated by a different Union?

Ok without all of our particulars in the conversation that last contract (IBT) put them out ahead of you (Just like the TWU Fleet contracts put them ahead of me too for years BTW) but now again 4 and half years after talks started they have squat. And you're pulling ahead of them now?

At least right now you got both the jobs and the money. And how much of your maintenance work can be outsourced (contractually)?

A whole hell of a lot less than SWA.

 

[WeAAsles]

Vortilon go over to the SWA thread and look at what SWAMT himself wrote.

Does that REALLY sound like a guy that's ecstatic about the performance of his Union?

And then go back and read some of the other things he wrote. He may be blowing smoke on this thread but he isn't blowing smoke over there.

 

[Vortilon]

You're right and I'm not going to argue the point but what have the people who took over really done then to make any dramatic improvements besides a small handful of jobs that the Company agreed to for whatever reason?

How did the AMFA (And I'm not trying to be a wise ass) make any dramatic improvements since they got in with a company that's never lost money, never filed BK and the last contract was negotiated by a different Union?

Ok without all of our particulars in the conversation that last contract (IBT) put them out ahead of you (Just like the TWU Fleet contracts put them ahead of me too for years BTW) but now again 4 and half years after talks started they have squat. And you're pulling ahead of them now?

At least right now you got both the jobs and the money. And how much of your maintenance work can be outsourced (contractually)?

A whole hell of a lot less than SWA.

We haven't pulled ahead of anybody. It's nothing more than a pipe dream. I prefer in house maintenance, but the days of us accepting less to maintain headcount are over. We have done it the TWU way for all of my 31 years, and we are still stuck with the worst benfits in the industry,\and until recently - among the lowest paid. Not our job to sacrifice, if the company wants to reduce headcount, they are gonna do it. Hopefully they offer a non contractual "non divisive" early out package to ease the pain. Even the contractors are having trouble finding people to work for them. There is only so much a company can contract out,before they lose their identity & reputation. I see two Spirit A-319s sitting broke down on the ramp at DFW for the last week. That's what a shitty maintenance program looks like.

Yeah, we have jobs and money, but is that where we should set the bar? I think not, the company is making money hand over fist, and we should say "hey Doug, just give us what you think is fair" and we will be content with that? Industry leading contract, that was what uncle Doug promised, and that is what is expected. Hell, we have already paid for it by waiting so long - the joke will be on us - since there will be no retro.

 

[MetalMover]

Good because I'm not interested in hearing from MX the same, tired, whining crap that MX is the most important cog of this machine called AAL.

Bob, do you truly believe that the purpose of this forum is to discuss all the warm, fuzzy good things that have happened to us? And I mean ALL of us. All airline workers. Tell me, what is that great thing you think we should be applauding here that has happened to us since 2003? The only decent thing was the raise last year. Aside from that, what else? Should we be happy ONLY to have a job? Our numbers once were in the mid 12000 range. We are close to 7000 now and that is not just mechanics. Should we be happy that fleet is taking more mechanic work? Should we be happy they are outsourcing more and more to SA? Asia? Central America? Oh wait they are only building a hangar in SA to do oil changes, I'm sorry. Remember this Bob, NO ONE IS EXEMPT FROM OUTSOURCING!
BTW, don't accuse us mechanics of being the only whiners here. You guys in fleet do a pretty good job of it yourselves on your board.

 

[MetalMover]

Vort this is the reality I see when I look over at that group over there. They outsource between 75 to 80% of their Maintenance spend. Yea I get the point that guys here don't want to be a bunch of Socialists and support jobs for everyone who wants to pick up a nut and a bolt out of an old coffee can, but they're ridiculous over there with the lack of jobs they got.

And SWA management wants even more of their jobs cause they feed on the greed the higher up guys go on that totem pole.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business...ill-negotiating-new-contract-four-years-talks

WeAAz, the difference is that SWA was built with that concept. Big difference than a legacy airline losing decades a work. LAA once did 100% in house work. We are at 35% of the "SPEND" which equates to a higher number of outsourced man hours. So don't be fooled by the 35%. So since we used to have mechanics numbering in the mid 12000 range and we're are in the low 7000 range and we outsource more, should we have not been at a higher salary than we are now since this all started?

 

[WeAAsles]

Bob, do you truly believe that the purpose of this forum is to discuss all the warm, fuzzy good things that have happened to us? And I mean ALL of us. All airline workers. Tell me, what is that great thing you think we should be applauding here that has happened to us since 2003? The only decent thing was the raise last year. Aside from that, what else? Should we be happy ONLY to have a job? Our numbers once were in the mid 12000 range. We are close to 7000 now and that is not just mechanics. Should we be happy that fleet is taking more mechanic work? Should we be happy they are outsourcing more and more to SA? Asia? Central America? Oh wait they are only building a hangar in SA to do oil changes, I'm sorry. Remember this Bob, NO ONE IS EXEMPT FROM OUTSOURCING!
BTW, don't accuse us mechanics of being the only whiners here. You guys in fleet do a pretty good job of it yourselves on your board.

Oh dear God the amount of whiners in Fleet can fill an empty Walmart warehouse. Thankful after the money came in it's down to a KMart warehouse now but, yep we have plenty of whiners still.

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAz, the difference is that SWA was built with that concept. Big difference than a legacy airline losing decades a work. LAA once did 100% in house work. We are at 35% of the "SPEND" which equates to a higher number of outsourced man hours. So don't be fooled by the 35%. So since we used to have mechanics numbering in the mid 12000 range and we're are in the low 7000 range and we outsource more, should we have not been at a higher salary than we are now since this all started?

Technically absolutely if the Company we worked for (Our house) had been generating the revenue and profits of say a FedEx, UPS or even a SWA. If it had then the more jobs we lost or gave to the Company should have given us raises at least close to match what they were now saving in cost.

Using the house analogy if we keep taking lines of credit and home equity loans eventually it's going to be difficult if not impossible to be able to keep up to trying to pay it down or off. (Thanks again Jimmy Carter)

NOW though and finally we "should" be in a different position where returns on "our" investments in the old AA pay off?

No NONE of us should sacrifice any more to begin to live in comfort. And for those guys who don't have enough time left to see those investments pay off I'd love to see a 100k package like the one that was offered over at UAL for their Mechanics?

You ALL absolutely deserve it.

 

[bigjets]

You should head over to SWA and try to get in there? They don't seem to care too much how many jobs they have?

Oh and wait a minute. Aren't you now making more money than them anyway?

Nah I think you're better off staying here with us.

I know several mechs that went over there, one happy go lucky guy, he liked AA he likes SWA, another guy who was lazy and a whiner (but blamed AA for his attitude) he's lazy and a whiner at swa. The company doesn't change who you are.

One common theme, they enjoy working one type of AC. They work the 737, while I work the S80 A320 737 757 767 777 787. They say they're more proficient and get the work done faster because of that factor.

 

[bigjets]

WeAAz, the difference is that SWA was built with that concept. Big difference than a legacy airline losing decades a work. LAA once did 100% in house work. We are at 35% of the "SPEND" which equates to a higher number of outsourced man hours. So don't be fooled by the 35%. So since we used to have mechanics numbering in the mid 12000 range and we're are in the low 7000 range and we outsource more, should we have not been at a higher salary than we are now since this all started?

And we all sacrificed to save those jobs only to see them go away. I say no more of that kind of contract.

 

[bob@las-AA]

Bob, do you truly believe that the purpose of this forum is to discuss all the warm, fuzzy good things that have happened to us? And I mean ALL of us. All airline workers. Tell me, what is that great thing you think we should be applauding here that has happened to us since 2003? The only decent thing was the raise last year. Aside from that, what else? Should we be happy ONLY to have a job? Our numbers once were in the mid 12000 range. We are close to 7000 now and that is not just mechanics. Should we be happy that fleet is taking more mechanic work? Should we be happy they are outsourcing more and more to SA? Asia? Central America? Oh wait they are only building a hangar in SA to do oil changes, I'm sorry. Remember this Bob, NO ONE IS EXEMPT FROM OUTSOURCING!
BTW, don't accuse us mechanics of being the only whiners here. You guys in fleet do a pretty good job of it yourselves on your board.

Deleted

 

[WeAAsles]

Deleted

Sorry Bob but on that one I agree with MetalMover.

 

[swamt]

I wouldn't mind lingering on with SWA current pay and benefits. It's a lot harder when your union is doing ALL the heavy lifting raising the bar for AMTs - AMFA. On the other hand, you have the "all inclusive, one size fits all" unions like the TWU, IAM, and IBT lowering the bar. There is a Huuuge difference when you're on top with pay and benefits negotiating, than when you're working under a contract negotiated while in bankruptcy. Take their time and get it done right.

You are correct. And this is why we have not just gave into the co's demands they are demanding. AMFA has shown some movement and some smart compromises where the co. absolutely says it will not move. Until the mediators step up and do their jobs to bring the 2 sides together and meet somewhere willingly then we will just stay where we are at. The members at SWA has instructed the nego cmte not to cave to SWA's demands, they were also instructed not to fall for the "here's a big raise for you all if you would vote this contract in" With the co. not moving an inch I just don't expect anything any time soon. At least this time we are NOT so far behind the curve as far as pay and bennies go as we were 10-15 years ago so we don't have to jump on the first offer from the co. as you stated we can comfortably wait it out. April and May are set for week long (5 days) nego's where they were only scheduling 2-3 days per week before and always having the co. cancel at least one of those days each and every time. Hopefully there will be some movement some time this year but we do not EXPECT anything from the co. anytime this year. Heck at one year in the co. was saying we are getting close we should have something by the end of this first year. And we heard that each and every year since. I have heard mechanics say they are willing to wait 10 years if we have to, so not just cave to the unrealistic demands they are asking for.

 

[bob@las-AA]

Sorry Bob but on that one I agree with MetalMover.

Don't care, applaud surviving, and move on,

Bob, do you truly believe that the purpose of this forum is to discuss all the warm, fuzzy good things that have happened to us? And I mean ALL of us. All airline workers. Tell me, what is that great thing you think we should be applauding here that has happened to us since 2003? The only decent thing was the raise last year. Aside from that, what else? Should we be happy ONLY to have a job? Our numbers once were in the mid 12000 range. We are close to 7000 now and that is not just mechanics. Should we be happy that fleet is taking more mechanic work? Should we be happy they are outsourcing more and more to SA? Asia? Central America? Oh wait they are only building a hangar in SA to do oil changes, I'm sorry. Remember this Bob, NO ONE IS EXEMPT FROM OUTSOURCING!
BTW, don't accuse us mechanics of being the only whiners here. You guys in fleet do a pretty good job of it yourselves on your board.

Try applauding surviving, you and all groups will never recover from past sacrifice, NEVER, and most of you now, suffering from ulcers worrying when that restore and more day will come, might want to start thinking about moving on, you just might gain you health back if nothing else.