Aircraft maint issues

[MetalMover]

Comparable in some areas. The bonus is not in the same area code, however the circumstances are different. UAL deal has language keeping them 2% above AA/DAL. I believe it looks back every 24 months. UAL also provides for converting unused sick time to bridge the gap to medicare. I believe the formula was 11 hours buys 1 month of medical insurance. So 660 hours buys you 5 years. On an hourly basis, Delta is still paying a bit more. Just some random thoughts. I will reserve judgement until we get a full text deal to look at. I attached the UAL wage information for the AMT group. Happy Easter.

Ok, how about this...What if we truly got the best ever offer from the company in the industry uncluding pension and medical BUT the company wants the outsourcing numbers of DL and US.....Would everyone here still consider it an INDUSTRY LEADING CONTRACT?
When the company first said ILC, didn't everyone realize they wanted the scope like the others?

 

[Bob Owens]

Seems to me that AA getting forced into the IAMNPF was not true. Looks like AA doesn't even want any part of it.

Who said the company wants it? The Association wants it.
Look, DB Pensions sound great, and they can be great, but what the IAMNPF is really isn't a DB Pension fund guaranteed by the Employer, what it is basically is where your income gets diverted into an investment plan and you are promised a benefit down the road thats probably better than you would get if you stuck that money into an IRA or 401K plan. Its a DB only in as far as telling us the max monthly benefit we could possibly get. BUT there are several catches, one is that ii is not guaranteed, they can cut your benefits after you retire, also the money you put in is no longer yours, if you contribute $100000 over your lifetime and it earns another $10000 in interest and you die before you retire all that money is lost, its used to pay for those who survive, and under the IAMNPF when they cut your benefits you cant go back to work, they only pay you if you are not working. This is where we come in. The IAMNPF needs more people paying into the plan, they need our money, without a growing base of contributors these plans fail, as this one inevitably will. That's why the IAM wants us, a cash infusion. Another benefit to the Association of the pension is that the promise of a pension is very effective at locking people into a sinking ship until its too late. Look at how many workers stayed with dying companies because of their pensions. Look at all the concessions we were convinced to give to save the pension. Unfortunately we don't learn. Now instead of being locked into a company we would be locked into a union, or in our case an Association. Its the Association that wants the IAMNPF, not the company.

 

[The Watcher]

The Association stated they would like it as an option.

Boogeyman

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Ok, how about this...What if we truly got the best ever offer from the company in the industry uncluding pension and medical BUT the company wants the outsourcing numbers of DL and US.....Would everyone here still consider it an INDUSTRY LEADING CONTRACT?
When the company first said ILC, didn't everyone realize they wanted the scope like the others?

Everyone has their own go-no-go criteria. Personally I`m no fan of the sacrificing money/benefits for jobs routine. We all know how that works out. I pretty much saw the writing on the wall for overhaul some time ago. Same for the overhaul base shutdown. We have liked amongst ourselves for the last 4 years that it is going away. The LUS guy that was running DWH could not understand it. Much like he could not understand Skyball. That clown tried having us work airplanes out on a taxiway while the hangar was used for Skyball.

As I said, we will all have to make a choice. Jobs are going away one way or the other. I`m in favor of the absolute best language we can get. Along with industry leading pay and benefits.

 

[paul1]

$hit Bob owens out from under the rock! What is it 2010 all over again! Thanks for that! I agree with dvlhog212! Get absolute best language we can get i.e use man hours for scope! Not total cost!

Happy Easter!

 

[WeAAsles]

Who said the company wants it? The Association wants it.
Look, DB Pensions sound great, and they can be great, but what the IAMNPF is really isn't a DB Pension fund guaranteed by the Employer, what it is basically is where your income gets diverted into an investment plan and you are promised a benefit down the road thats probably better than you would get if you stuck that money into an IRA or 401K plan. Its a DB only in as far as telling us the max monthly benefit we could possibly get. BUT there are several catches, one is that ii is not guaranteed, they can cut your benefits after you retire, also the money you put in is no longer yours, if you contribute $100000 over your lifetime and it earns another $10000 in interest and you die before you retire all that money is lost, its used to pay for those who survive, and under the IAMNPF when they cut your benefits you cant go back to work, they only pay you if you are not working. This is where we come in. The IAMNPF needs more people paying into the plan, they need our money, without a growing base of contributors these plans fail, as this one inevitably will. That's why the IAM wants us, a cash infusion. Another benefit to the Association of the pension is that the promise of a pension is very effective at locking people into a sinking ship until its too late. Look at how many workers stayed with dying companies because of their pensions. Look at all the concessions we were convinced to give to save the pension. Unfortunately we don't learn. Now instead of being locked into a company we would be locked into a union, or in our case an Association. Its the Association that wants the IAMNPF, not the company.

Bob it should be obvious now to everyone that the Company wants to get out of the continuation of funding the IAMPF. Even in their propaganda video they mention the cuts in Benefits that the Pension went through in a roundabout way.

But the truth is that trading it out completely for only a 9% total that many members will not take full advantage of anyway is a sup par offer.

16% is what the Pilots get and 16% is the ask from our Negotiators. And it’s absolutely reasonable if it’s not a full on contribution but maintains a percentage that has to be matched.

But again I don’t see any of us being “forced” into the IAMPF because on this one it’s ultimately the “Company” who could get its way keeping us out of it.

Besides you’re really flip flopping here. You came back the other day and said you really like the guys leading the TWU now but in the same breath you expect that they’re going to screw you?

 

[Bob Owens]

I agree 16% should be the bare minimum, after all 16% of our pay is much less than 16% of a pilots pay. They can easily afford it and we need it to have any chance of retiring comfortably at an age younger than Al Blackman.

I said they weren't like Little's team, there is a huge spectrum between "really like" and how I felt about Little. I am disappointed in these guys as well, but like I said I don't think they are being paid off with a padded pension and A5 travel passes. I don't see them screwing us on behalf of the company, but I could see them screwing us by trying to keep us in this Association. Their failure to address this whole Association BS, blocking Title II members from switching over to Local 591 (when even their Local President was OK with it) and, to make any attempt to align with the Pilots and correct the way Airlines Workers are treated in Bankruptcy were major factors in my decision to no longer run for office.

 

[Duke787]

$hit Bob owens out from under the rock! What is it 2010 all over again! Thanks for that! I agree with dvlhog212! Get absolute best language we can get i.e use man hours for scope! Not total cost!

Happy Easter!

If we only knew what we were asking for. I say trust in the NC !!!

 

[swamt]

OMG are you really that stupid?

It can’t be lost by law. If you have more than five years your vested.

Less than five years, you get a lump sum payment.

The plan would freeze and no further contributions would be accepted and a new plan would have to be negotiated with the company.

Educate yourself.

No you need to educate yourself. The 2 unions set out to fear mongering the membership into "thinking" they would have a vote on the asso. and the loss of the pension was top dog on the list that the IAM said they would lose, lose watcher not freeze or frozen "LOSE"

Six years, maybe you can all set the record for the longest Section 6 negotiations.

Use this

https://www.tickcounter.com/countup/57067/my-count-

At least my union is putting up a fight for our members instead of just agreeing to concessions. Sometimes it takes that long when you are willing to fight for something. Remember the company started out wanting a little over 50% more to go outsourced now scope is done and they removed all the ask of scope and scope will remain at book. I appreciate our NC and the membership for hanging in there for the long run. I still hope you guys will keep your scope also, but it sounds as if the asso. has already agreed to some outsourcing already. That's the differences watcher. And look you guys are not done yet either. Some are saying that your nego's will go beyond the amendable date of Sept 18, the question is how long past since the company moved way back kikn their last nego's sessions.

 

[The Watcher]

At the road shows it was clearly explyand letters sent out to all participants.

They can’t lose it by law.

How many times must the same topic be covered?

Welcome to IAMNPF remedial education

 

[WeAAsles]

I agree 16% should be the bare minimum, after all 16% of our pay is much less than 16% of a pilots pay. They can easily afford it and we need it to have any chance of retiring comfortably at an age younger than Al Blackman.

I said they weren't like Little's team, there is a huge spectrum between "really like" and how I felt about Little. I am disappointed in these guys as well, but like I said I don't think they are being paid off with a padded pension and A5 travel passes. I don't see them screwing us on behalf of the company, but I could see them screwing us by trying to keep us in this Association. Their failure to address this whole Association BS, blocking Title II members from switching over to Local 591 (when even their Local President was OK with it) and, to make any attempt to align with the Pilots and correct the way Airlines Workers are treated in Bankruptcy were major factors in my decision to no longer run for office.

Trying to keep who in the Association? You? Mechanics? All of us? This isn’t going to be that very old sales pitch for (ahem) that has nothing to do with me again is it?

As far as getting out of it if that’s where you’re headed, you do understand there are Lawyers and Courts that will Body Slam us in that area like Andre the Giant taking on a midget if we tried. Legally it’s not happening. Gary tried and yet here we still are. And you also know some other people tried as well.

The rest Title 2 and hanging out with the Pilots I’m not exactly sure about?

 

[conehead777]

777, I have to admit I was getting impatient, but when I started comparing what SWA was saying, and then AMFA the people actually explaining what the company really wanted. I am glad they have held firm for our scope.When you work line maintenance and not overhaul, you tend to focus on what affects you. Now as far as you guys , how much patience do you have to hold out?

This might be my last contract before retirement, my health issues might not give me any choice. So I will be patient to get the best contract . We have gave to much up it is time to get it all back and more

 

[Buck]

Ok I am voting Yes, as long as Avionics gets $75.00/HR and Generals $65.00/HR plus $5.00/HR for Crew Chief. and the Line can have $2.00/HR.

 

[WeAAsles]

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Ya beat me to it Weez!