AFA''s CHAOS, its just wrong.

[FA Mikey]

This seems to be a job action idea for a union who doesn't believe they can hold enough members on the line to make a difference.

 

[KCFlyer]

Mike, CHAOS can be effective against smaller companies that may not be able to withstand a prolonged general strike. CHAOS can still cause passengers to book away until the dispute is settled. Hopefully, this will propel the company to come back to the table and reach a settlement witht the union.

I flat out don't understand this booking away in this economic climate. The second best care in the air, or even the third best care in the air beats the hell out of NO care in the air.

 

[CALFLYBOY]

----------------
On 9/3/2002 5:52:01 PM

CAL,


<The company gains no leverage against the FA's CHAOS action with an injunction...>


Not sure what you mean.




----------------

well, why should the company pursue injunctive relief against the FA's when they have been released to self help under the RLA, and there is a decision that protects the FA's employment while participating in CHAOS actions?

Mike, CHAOS can be effective against smaller companies that may not be able to withstand a prolonged general strike. CHAOS can still cause passengers to book away until the dispute is settled. Hopefully, this will propel the company to come back to the table and reach a settlement witht the union.

 

[JS]

WHAT IS CHAOS(tm)?
(snip)

Periodic mass strikes will drive away wary passengers, even if we come back to work after a day or a week.

Straight from the horse's mouth -- CHAOS says to customers **** you.

 

[Cart Pusher]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 9/4/2002 212 PM JS wrote:

Straight from the horse's mouth -- CHAOS says to customers "**** you".
----------------
[/blockquote]

Actually - that would be managements voice you hear saying that. If management cared about their customers AND employees, they would reach a reasonable agreement that all could agree with.

 

[KCFlyer]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 9/4/2002 2:52:43 PM Cart Pusher wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 9/4/2002 212 PM JS wrote:

Straight from the horse's mouth -- CHAOS says to customers "**** you".
----------------
[/blockquote]

Actually - that would be managements voice you hear saying that. If management cared about their customers AND employees, they would reach a reasonable agreement that all could agree with.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Actually, that's not quite right either. It would be nice if management and the FA's could reach a reasonable agreement that all could agree with, but from everything I've read, the AFA started out with a 9.5% increase with a 3% raise on the anniversary date, and that's where they remain. I'm not much of a negotiator, but it would seem to me that in order to reach a reasonable agreement, both parties need to be reasonable. Standing firm means that AFA gave their best and final offer a year ago. All that shows is that AFA needs to learn how to negotiate, and perhaps the FA group at Midex would have been better served to vote in a different union.

 

[CALFLYBOY]

----------------
On 9/4/2002 424 PM

[blockquote]

----------------

On 9/4/2002 2:52:43 PM Cart Pusher wrote:


[blockquote]

----------------

On 9/4/2002 212 PM JS wrote:


Straight from the horse's mouth -- CHAOS says to customers "**** you".

----------------

[/blockquote]


Actually - that would be managements voice you hear saying that. If management cared about their customers AND employees, they would reach a reasonable agreement that all could agree with.

----------------

[/blockquote]


Actually, that's not quite right either. It would be nice if management and the FA's could reach a reasonable agreement that all could agree with, but from everything I've read, the AFA started out with a 9.5% increase with a 3% raise on the anniversary date, and that's where they remain. I'm not much of a negotiator, but it would seem to me that in order to reach a reasonable agreement, both parties need to be reasonable. Standing firm means that AFA gave their "best and final" offer a year ago. All that shows is that AFA needs to learn how to negotiate, and perhaps the FA group at Midex would have been better served to vote in a different union.
----------------

If AFA was asking 9.5% for the first year, and 3% the year after that, then what was MidEx's last and final offer??? They obviously low balled the union's proposal.

 

[KCFlyer]

----------------
On 9/5/2002 2:43:54 AM

If AFA was asking 9.5% for the first year, and 3% the year after that, then what was MidEx's last and final offer??? They obviously low balled the union's proposal.
----------------

Since you've asked:

the company said it was offering flight attendants a 2.5 percent pay increase when the contract is signed. Flight attendants would also receive a 3 percent raise at the end of the first year of the contract, followed by a 2 percent increase at the end of 2-1/2 years and a 3 percent raise at the end of four years.

The company also has offered to raise per-diem pay and restore wage increases that were frozen in October, the letter said.

Flight attendants had requested a 9.5 percent raise that would take effect immediately, a 3 percent pay raise in the second year of the contract and a 5 percent increase in the third year of the contract, Skornicka said.

But let me ask you this...if you go to a car dealer to buy a car and the sticker says $35,000 and you offer $30,000 and the dealer comes back with $35,000, do you really feel like he's negotiating with you, or is he just being a hard ass? And would you be willing to dicker for a year when the only response from the other party is the same as it was when you first started?

 

[CALFLYBOY]

[[But let me ask you this...if you go to a car dealer to buy a car and the sticker says $35,000 and you offer $30,000 and the dealer comes back with $35,000, do you really feel like he's negotiating with you, or is he just being a hard ass?  And would you be willing to ****er for a year when the only response from the other party is the same as it was when you first started?]]

LOL, point taken! I would always lowball what I am willing to pay hoping to settle somewhere in the middle. BUT, in defense of AFA, if the company can not up their offer to a point where I am willing to settle then I would walk away. Anyway, let's see what happens.

 

[KCFlyer]

does anyone else think the profanity filter is going to extremes here??? I mean, d-i-c-k-e-r is a bad word?????? Say goodnight ****.

 

[aislehopper]

The AFA has set up a website for the flight attendants [A href=http://www.afanet.org/me/]http://www.afanet.org/me/[/A] We can check on the status of chaos there.

 

[s80dude]

Can't the AFA just up and call a 1 day strike, or a 2 day strike on all flights. They can do it at the last minute to have their CHAOS (tm) factor, and it prevents supervisors from manning flights as they can't man all of them?

 

[KCFlyer]

Just read this in today's KC Star:
[blockquote]They wouldn't be fired, said Carol Skornica, senior vice president and general counsel of Midwest Express. They just wouldn't be able to return and earn any money.

Midwest Express also has filed a lawsuit in federal court seeking a ruling that the union's CHAOS tactics are illegal.[/blockquote]

Looks to me like they found their loophole - selective lockouts. Seems fair to me...if FA's can selectively walk off flights, the company ought to be able to lock them out without pay, until the contract is resolved. Interesting little twist it seems. I wonder who the sacrificial lambs are going to be. All is fair in love and war.

 

[N464AT]

Well I would say that C.H.A.O.S. has worked, and workes very well as MidEx has announced a tentitive agreement. Bottom line is that only the union mebers of the Midex local have the best voice in there direction of negoations. AFA does not control negotiations nor do they negotiate for the union membership. Instead they advise the local leadership on their best course of action and actions based upon the local membership's wishes.