AFA Labor Discussion (Work Conditions) 7-7 -

[ebwgs]

I was going to let this go, then I saw the "why do you care" inserted into the quote.

I am aware of the AFA seniority integration bylaw. But, you have not been integrated at LCC, and we are 5 years into this merger.

Why do I care? I care because It effects me and my job. It effects everything from crew interaction to inflight security. Call me selfish, but I want my job to be easier. The prolonged contract negotiations and integration does not make my job easier.

BTW, the pilot seniority has been resolved since May 2007. Come on over to the pilot labor thread and see for yourself.

Good Night.

NIC I'm happy to know you care as much as you say you do. Sadly, your seniority issue hasn't been resolved. Fix your broken workgroup. We're working on ours. I hope to get a greatly improved CBA that, among other things, includes an intact Me Too Clause, vacation and sick time restored as well as industry standard pay. When you get your situation worked out, coupled with an enhanced CBA for f/a then those issues you say you care about will be addressed by us all as one company, then all of our jobs will be easier.

 

[ebwgs]

You are exactly right. We should be paying attention to the big picture. The big picture of the Me-Too clause may become much clearer shortly.


PROMISES, PROMISES: FAA fatigue rules finally near

By JOAN LOWY (AP) – 15 hours ago

WASHINGTON — After a regional airliner crashed in western New York a year and a half ago, killing 50 people, the Obama administration promised swift action to prevent similar tragedies. High on the list: new rules governing the number of hours pilots may work, to prevent tired flight crews from making fatal errors.

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood wrote in June 2009 that the Federal Aviation Administration was in a hurry and wouldn't wait for Congress "to add mandatory layers to airline safety," nor even for crash investigators to complete their work, "because air passengers deserve action. And, they deserve it now."

It's taken 15 months and a half-dozen missed deadlines, but the FAA is finally about to propose new regulations on how many hours airlines can schedule pilots to be on duty or in the cockpit. A draft was submitted to the White House Office of Management and Budget for review last week, and a proposed rule is likely to be published within days, industry officials said. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to address the issue publicly. A House hearing on the proposal is scheduled for next week.

___

EDITOR'S NOTE — An occasional look at government promises and how well they are kept.

___

Even when the new rules are proposed, it will likely be months — possibly even a year or longer — before they take effect. Pilot unions and relatives of crash victims who have been campaigning for the new rules said they're troubled by the lengthy process when safety is at stake.

"You can't be anything but concerned about the delays. This is supposedly (Federal Aviation Administration chief) Randy Babbitt's No. 1 priority and something there has been a crying need for decades now," said Kevin Kuwik, a spokesman for relatives of the victims of Continental Connection Flight 3407, which crashed near Buffalo in February 2009. An NTSB investigation found that both pilots on the flight were probably suffering from fatigue, although fatigue wasn't a direct cause of the accident.

At a private meeting with White House officials in June, relatives were assured the issue is a priority, he said.

Transportation and FAA officials declined to discuss the reason for the delays. Transportation Department spokeswoman Olivia Alair said only, "We are working as quickly as possible to get the proposal out for comment."

Lawmakers, industry officials and union leaders familiar with the process say the difficulty is in demonstrating that the safety benefits of stricter rules on flight hours — lives saved and injuries avoided — would outweigh the cost of the rules to the struggling airline industry. Depending upon how they are written, new regulations could cost industry billions of dollars over the next decade.

The result, these insiders say, has been a monthslong back-and-forth between the government and industry.

Officials at airline trade associations say they haven't been lobbying to block or delay new regulations. But the cost estimates the airline industry has supplied the government amount to a kind of lobbying, said Rep. James Oberstar, D-Minn., chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee.

"I know for sure they are using the rulemaking process to make their case," said Oberstar, who has talked privately with Babbitt about the situation. He said one reason for the delay is that the FAA has been trying to "bulletproof" the proposal against possible challenges.

"The companies don't want any change that will cost them 10 cents," Oberstar said. "That's what it all comes down to."

Tom Hendricks, vice president for the Air Transport Association, an organization of major air carriers, said he hasn't seen either a draft proposal or cost estimates from the FAA. But he said, "We're always very concerned about added costs without a demonstrable safety benefit."

Current rules say pilots can be scheduled for up to 16 hours on duty — which means being at work, ready to fly — and up to eight hours of actual flight time in a 24-hour period, with a minimum of eight hours for rest in between. The rules don't take into account that it can be more tiring for regional airline pilots to fly five or six short legs in six hours than it is for a pilot with a major airline to fly eight hours across the Atlantic to Europe, say, with only one takeoff and landing. Takeoffs and landings are usually the most strenuous part of flying.

The rules also don't take into account pilots whose schedules put them in the cockpit during the period, typically 2 a.m. to 6 a.m., when people are more likely to become fatigued than if they were awake the same number of hours during the daytime. Cargo airlines — especially overnight package services — do much of their flying during those hours.

Major airlines have urged the FAA to balance a reduction in hours for pilots who fly more fatiguing schedules with an increase in hours for pilots who fly less taxing routes, which could offset much of the cost of new rules. Pilot unions oppose that approach.

Babbitt formed a committee of airline and labor officials last summer to make recommendations on new regulations. Instead of one set of recommendations, the committee produced separate proposals from cargo and charter airlines, commercial airlines and pilot unions.

Charter airlines — which fly 95 percent of U.S. troops and 40 percent of military cargo around the world — want to continue exceptions in current regulations that allow longer flight and duty hours for their pilots.

The military "is watching very closely what is going on with the flight and duty-time rulemaking because how that comes out that will affect their ability to move troops and their ability to move cargo," said Oakley Brooks, president of the National Air Carrier Association. "We're working closely with them."

Pilot unions oppose the exceptions, arguing that all airlines should be held to the same safety standards.

"Do we want pilots flying our troops around the world to be more tired than other pilots?" asked Lee Collins, secretary of the Coalition of Airline Pilots Associations.

The effort to overhaul the rules is also a victim of the aviation industry's safety success over the past decade, thanks primarily to better warning systems that help prevent planes from flying into the ground or colliding in midair. In some years, there have been no fatal airline crashes in the U.S.

Finding ways to prevent pilot fatigue has stymied federal regulators and the airline industry for decades. The National Transportation Safety Board has been urging since 1990 that rules be updated to reflect fatigue research.

The FAA proposed new rules in the late 1990s. The proposal lingered for more than a decade without further action, and agency officials cited an impasse between pilots and industry. The proposal was withdrawn last year when the agency began working on the issue again.

"I don't think there's anything hard about looking at what the science tells us and coming up with common-sense rules," said Russ Leighton, head of the Teamsters aviation division. "Getting people to wrap their minds around that change or to stop acting like that change is going to put every airline in the country out of business — that's the hard part."


P.S. - USAPA is reporting via a Government Affairs email that the NPRM may come out tomorrow, Sept. 10.

Here's a peek at what the MTC regarding rest will look like with the new regulations.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-10/u-s-airline-pilots-said-to-get-more-rest-under-faa-overhaul.html?cmpid=yhoo

 

[OP Taylor]

No hatred of pilots here. The issue is getting the door shut on time, early, shut shut shut shut shut shut shut the door now! There have been times where flight attendants have been denied a jumpseat because we have to shut shut shut shut shut shut the door early (not on time, EARLY) - and I have to agree with a previous poster's comments - the f/a probably wouldn't get the jumpseat if another warm body with bags stowed was already occupying said jumpseat.

That said, how do you guys feel about the company wanting a 35 / 40 minute boarding time (current West language)? READ: CONCESSION
How do the blockholders feel about having a holiday restriction? READ: CONCESSION
How do you feel about having to clean on all flight segments under 1000 NM? READ: CONCESSION
How do RSVs feel about having to take a 4 day trip, even if there are 3 days, 2 days, or 1 days available if "scheduling deems it necessary?" READ: CONCESSION
How do you feel about daily scheduling assigning trips in inverse seniority order? READ: CONCESSION
How do you feel about a 6 hour OPR stint? READ: CONCESSION
How do you feel about splittiing from the pilots? READ: CONCESSION
How do you feel about PREF BID preventing you from negotiating your own schedule so trips fall off etc and you can maximize time off? READ: CONCESSION

For PHL F/A's - How do you feel about the AFA office being $30,000 + in the hole regarding the budget?
How do you feel about not getting much communication from our elected officers?
How do you feel about having given to the company, once, twice, THREE times, only to have this GARBAGE presented to us at meetings where CAROL AUSTIN herself doesn't even bother to show up?
How do you feel about them collecting 105 hours of international pay? (and PBGC and pension for some...)
How do you feel about NO RESERVES on the JNC?

Here's a little tidbit for those of you who weren't in attendance at the most recent CLT AFA meeting. Rob Wessinger (Past LECP of LGA and current PHL F/A asked Mike some very pressing and relevant questions at the meeting. Mike's wife TRIED TO CLOSE the meeting to all F/A's that weren't based in CLT. It took Rob's reading the C&B regarding the meeting being open to EVERY F/A in good standing to get them to stop their madness. How do you feel about the MECP trying to shut flight attendants out of the meetings?

Can any one of you name a few things that are coming out of this 5 year negotiation meltdown from Flores & Austin that really benefit the F/A group at large? No, seriously... I'll wait...

Hey thanks for the update VAflyGal. This sounds like BK III contract. I must have missed something along the way but I didn't realize we were in bankruptcy again. I thought it was explained to us that in merging these two groups would give us the opportunity to negotiate improvements to our bankruptcy contract which will be up at the end of 2011. I guess I was naive in that I thought Flores meant the improvements were going to be for the AFA , NOT the company. Sounds like" Doogie" has got him wrapped around his finger. I wish I could have made the meeting in CLT but you know we have been very short in CLT so I had to fly. Isn't there anything that can be done in PHL? You mentioned $ 30,000 over budget? That is insane!!!! Why don't you guys call the International AFA office and ask for an audit? I haven't heard anything about any budget deficit in CLT. Maybe we should be checking here as well.

So is it true that our CLT AFA is closing our meetings to those that commute to PHL or DCA from the Charlotte area? They are going to have to commute to get information from their own bases? Does anyone know when the next meeting is scheduled for PHL? Will I be shut out of that meeting because I am based in CLT? I don't get it. All I ever hear from AFA is that nobody shows up at meetings. Maybe they TRULY don't want us to attend? It sure sounds like that was the case in CLT this last meeting.

Will Flores and the First Lady being flying on US ONE up to the PHL meeting or will Doogie be chartering a plane for his boy? Hopefully the First Lady will be WELL received by the PHL crew. I hear it is a whole different ballgame in PHL than the more passive crowd here in CLT. Thanks for the info VAflyGal. I feel like you have sifted through the BS and created the picture. By the way did you attend the CLT meeting and were you allowed to speak?

 

[airportman]

Alot of talk about pref bid.......it is currently in our contract yet has not been put in place because we dont have a "VENDOR" but on that same token they found a "VENDOR" for the merged agreement.


Our Mec is in violation of the afa constitution and can have charges filed:
FROM AFA CONT. AND BYLAWS:


A. Hearing of Membership Cases
1. Any member, regardless of membership status, may be fined, suspended, expelled or otherwise
disciplined for any of the following acts:

a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.
i. Acting in any manner to circumvent, defeat or interfere with collective bargaining
between the Union and an employer or with existing collective bargaining
agreements.
j. Doing any act contrary to the best interests of the Union or its members.


this is the same section our MEC uses against the west a bit back.




time for a change

 

[Zarah]

Our Mec is in violation of the afa constitution and can have charges filed:
FROM AFA CONT. AND BYLAWS:

You filed charges?

 

[2clippedwings]

Hey thanks for the update VAflyGal. This sounds like BK III contract. I must have missed something along the way but I didn't realize we were in bankruptcy again. I thought it was explained to us that in merging these two groups would give us the opportunity to negotiate improvements to our bankruptcy contract which will be up at the end of 2011. I guess I was naive in that I thought Flores meant the improvements were going to be for the AFA , NOT the company. Sounds like" Doogie" has got him wrapped around his finger. I wish I could have made the meeting in CLT but you know we have been very short in CLT so I had to fly. Isn't there anything that can be done in PHL? You mentioned $ 30,000 over budget? That is insane!!!! Why don't you guys call the International AFA office and ask for an audit? I haven't heard anything about any budget deficit in CLT. Maybe we should be checking here as well.

So is it true that our CLT AFA is closing our meetings to those that commute to PHL or DCA from the Charlotte area? They are going to have to commute to get information from their own bases? Does anyone know when the next meeting is scheduled for PHL? Will I be shut out of that meeting because I am based in CLT? I don't get it. All I ever hear from AFA is that nobody shows up at meetings. Maybe they TRULY don't want us to attend? It sure sounds like that was the case in CLT this last meeting.

Will Flores and the First Lady being flying on US ONE up to the PHL meeting or will Doogie be chartering a plane for his boy? Hopefully the First Lady will be WELL received by the PHL crew. I hear it is a whole different ballgame in PHL than the more passive crowd here in CLT. Thanks for the info VAflyGal. I feel like you have sifted through the BS and created the picture. By the way did you attend the CLT meeting and were you allowed to speak?

Regarding Mrs Flores' effort to close the meeting to anyone other than CLT f/a's...The meeting was supposed to be over at 3pm however some of us stayed as we had questions. Rob joined the meeting shortly before it was over. He was planning on attending the second presentation but came early. He asked some pointed questions. He was agitated. Mike was agitated as well. They started bickering and Mrs Flores tried to bring a motion to exclude anyone who wasn't a CLT f/a. I believe that came from pure emotion. THIS IS NOT TO DEFEND HER/THEM. It was wrong and if that had happened earlier in the meeting when more f/a's were there, I can only imagine what would have happened.
There should have been a MUCH larger turn-out at this meeting. Questions were taken but it was made clear that the meeting was a "presentation" and not a round-table.
VAflyGal, thank you for presenting some of the responses to questions that we had. Our f/a's need to know what this T/A includes. The negotiators need to go back to the table NOW and get us a contract that isn't concessionary. Mike offered Dec 2010 as the time period they think they well be finished negotiating. I feel like a sheep being led to slaughter but won't go quietly.

 

[Travelpro72]

Ok first of all ENOUGH about the G'damn jumpseat. Moving on! ! ! ! For all of those f/a's out there with petitions for Mike and Carol.......Your going about this ALL WRONG folks. While Mike and Carol are ousted Lisa from the west and her pal will continue to negotiate at the table with the company. DO YOU ALL WANT THAT? I thought not. What needs to be done and I'll write in all caps for you is this.

GET SIGNATURES TO RECALL JOHN McCORKLE IN PHILADELPHIA.

The budget is out of this world. He was asked to hold a meeting for Mike and "laugh" Carol to attend but came up with excuse after excuse with why it's next to impossible. He won't allow Local 70 reps to sit shifts in the PHL airport because he needs people on the phones. Ummmm CALL FORWARD to their cell phones ya MORON! ! ! ! John is NOT AFRAID of the membership in PHL because though it may be a loudmouth base little action is EVER taken. Get a petition started to recall John who props up Mike and see where this all goes. John would be overcome by explosive diarrhea if he found out we had over 2000 signatures. FOCUS PEOPLE! ! ! !

RECALL JOHN McCORKLE FROM OFFICE! ! ! !

 

[VAflyGal]

RECALL JOHN McCORKLE FROM OFFICE! ! ! !

- waves cowboy HOWDY to travel-
I'm glad you brought this up. It IS what needs to be done. John is running for MEC VP and will use his PHL votes to get himself into that position.

The budget is out of control.
So is the way he voted in Las Vegas after we specifically told him (by afa votes in the march phl lec meeting) who we wanted to be our international reps. He went 100% against our will. Self interest much?

Anyway, AMEN to Travel.

PS - I encourage everyone who has attended meetings or had exchanges with Team Flores about negotiations to share the info here. Ever notice how they have "presentations" and not "roundtables" now? It's so we won't barrage them with questions that legitimately deserve answers. We are treated like petulant children and our questions, concerns, motions, etc get brushed off.

All together now. NO. CONCESSIONS.

 

[BajaBabe]

Oh my God please tell me there are no bullets in the Squirt Guns. Calamity Jane what the heck........................................

 

[cactusgirl]

Alot of talk about pref bid.......it is currently in our contract yet has not been put in place because we dont have a "VENDOR" but on that same token they found a "VENDOR" for the merged agreement.


Our Mec is in violation of the afa constitution and can have charges filed:
FROM AFA CONT. AND BYLAWS:


A. Hearing of Membership Cases
1. Any member, regardless of membership status, may be fined, suspended, expelled or otherwise
disciplined for any of the following acts:

a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.
i. Acting in any manner to circumvent, defeat or interfere with collective bargaining
between the Union and an employer or with existing collective bargaining
agreements.
j. Doing any act contrary to the best interests of the Union or its members.


this is the same section our MEC uses against the west a bit back.




time for a change

Let me know how that works out. Been tried out here in the west against how many people? 1 current officer and 1 previous officer. (Lisa and Jeff). They were found guilty but nothing happened to them. No punishment from the ethics committee. The way AFA International handles charges is a joke. I will you luck. I Sincerely do. It gave the clear signal you can steal, and lie and not one thing will happen to you. It's almost like they condoned what happened.

The over budget thing, the PHL president voting opposite of membership wishes, etc. It sounds like what was going on out here. Or may still be for all we know. We get half the facts our here. I feel your pain.

 

[HP2USFA]

Please don't bring your tired infantile argument into our discussion. This sandbox is CLOSED.

 

[nic4us]

Please don't bring your tired infantile argument into our discussion. This sandbox is CLOSED.

Roger..Wilco..over and out.

 

[ebwgs]

Trust me NIC4US could care less about F/A issues.
He is just trolling for some sympathy since he has not
been able to cash his seniority lottery ticket!!

NICDOA
NPJB

ROTFLMAO!

 

[nic4us]

ROTFLMAO!

That makes two of us.

 

[HP2USFA]

Roger..Wilco..over and out.

By the way, my post was directed to Barrister... not you Nic.