Aa's Big Announcement On Feb, 2005

[Skymess]

I heard from my best friend who's based at JFK that he heard from a reliable source that AA will be making a big announcement. He thinks that we'll merge with USAir to help them from going under. Has anyone heard anything about it?

[post="227893"][/post]​

oh, the dreaded announcement rumor again that never seems to come true.

If we bought US Airways it would be the final nail in both coffins. TWA was the biggest error in AA history and I believe that everyone from the top to the bottom and outside the company knows it.

 

[Oneflyer]

A friend of mine who works for DHL Cargo over at Love Field, whom lease's space from AA at DAL, said that AA corporate real estate has been spending a lot of time over at DAL, looking over it's facilities. I wonder if something is starting to brew over at Love again.

This is very interesting. Surely AA has at least thought about what it would do if the Write Amend. went away. I wonder if maybe they are considering some Eagle flights as a precurser to AA flights to LGA, DCA, and other business markets.

 

[Skymess]

I know that come 08 January there are 70+ clerks getting bounced from JFK and coming to LGA, with the accompanying downgrades and layoffs.

Our new manager of ramp services (Smart cookie that she is) has decided to eliminate 7 CC slots and gate manning here.

In her infinite wisdom she has also decided to eliminate inbounds (The guys who run the bags from the gate to the claim belts).

She figures she can send a five person crew out to a turn to handle all aspects of the flight,cabin service, running the inbound bags as well as loading the outbound.

Clerk one has to load bags into carts, drive said carts to the local belt and unload the bags.Okay, not a bad idea...what happens when you have FLL 757 coming in with 180+ bags? Right, send a second clerk with him to dump the bags.

Meanwhile, you only have three guys left on the gate, and two of those have to go upstairs and clean the cabin.Two guys on a 57, that'll work out well wont it?
Think those 20 minute cleaning deadlines are going to be met? :blink:

Last guy has to set up the flight, hook up the tow bar and tractor,water the aircraft and set up the loaders for the outbound.

This all sounds good right?

What happens when you get into an OSO? It's rained basically every day here in NY this week, her "Plan 2005" as she calls it would have resulted in even longer delays in every area of the operation.

What about when it starts snowing and all the deicing qualified clerks are pulled out of the operation?

Three man crews to dump,run,clean and reload? Great! We'll take even more and longer delays now!

You go Sophia, your "Plan 2005" is going to ensure you are the shortest serving Manager of Ramp Services we've ever had at La Guardia...

[post="228032"][/post]​

I can't believe you guys are missing the writing on the wall here.

From my perspective (flight attendant) it appears as though they are setting the wheels in motion for less cabin service and more flight attendants cleaning flights.

1. we have the removal of pillows on S-80's.
2. Now we have a sweeper on the S-80 stored in the closet, allegedly for the convenience of cabin service when they begin higher productivity shifts.
3. The company will meet with the AAPFA and they will ask them if we would like to get something back that we never really gave up anyway if we wouldn't mind cleaning more flights and going through with the sweeper. We have a vote that is changed to yes by our illustrious union as they fall all over themselves to make sure management doesn't have to actually give up any perks or money.
4. Cabin service is told "now that the FA's are cleaning more flights we need less of you guys" and the TWU goes for round 3 of BOHICA.

 

[Bob Owens]

I can't believe you guys are missing the writing on the wall here.

From my perspective (flight attendant) it appears as though they are setting the wheels in motion for less cabin service and more flight attendants cleaning flights.

1. we have the removal of pillows on S-80's.
2. Now we have a sweeper on the S-80 stored in the closet, allegedly for the convenience of cabin service when they begin higher productivity shifts.
3. The company will meet with the AAPFA and they will ask them if we would like to get something back that we never really gave up anyway if we wouldn't mind cleaning more flights and going through with the sweeper. We have a vote that is changed to yes by our illustrious union as they fall all over themselves to make sure management doesn't have to actually give up any perks or money.
4. Cabin service is told "now that the FA's are cleaning more flights we need less of you guys" and the TWU goes for round 3 of BOHICA.

[post="228705"][/post]​

Thats not all. The way the company is cutting ticket and gate agents they will be gone too.

At New York Air, Lorenzos project, he used to make the flight attendants do both jobs, check in all the passengers then work the flight. Hey, you already have to show up at least an hour before the flight anyway right? Now they are going to put you to work. While the Junior F/As are cleaning the plane the senior ones will be out working the gate.

 

[Oneflyer]

From my perspective (flight attendant) it appears as though they are setting the wheels in motion for less cabin service and more flight attendants cleaning flights.

A couple of facts here that are not meant to be inflammatory, but just facts.

1. F/A cleaning cabins in inevitable, it’s going to happen whether its '05 or '07 or later on down the road. For the next generation of F/As it’s just going to be part of the job. Southwest does it and with food service being reduced there really isn't a reason why F/A can't clean the cabin.

2. What you people are missing is that AA was preparing their budget in October and early November when oil was at its peak. The '05 Domestic Customer Service budget from what I understand is really a slash and burn budget. AA was preparing for $50 plus barrel oil and at that price AA is probably looking at a bankruptcy filing in mid-march because the cash balance will dip below $2 billion (the threshold for bankruptcy). Basically everything that could get cut got cut.

3. AA for several years has used a crew manning system, not gate manning, at least for budget purposes. For the most part all out stations use it, but large cities such as LGA, SFO, SJC, and others have always had the clout to pad their budget with extra headcount so that they didn't have to make the change. Basically, the GMs are scared of confronting the unions and attempting to make gradual progressive change to minimize the pain. So this year when the budget got cut so much the bigger/fatter stations got trimmed.

 

[aafsc]

This is very interesting. Surely AA has at least thought about what it would do if the Write Amend. went away. I wonder if maybe they are considering some Eagle flights as a precurser to AA flights to LGA, DCA, and other business markets.

[post="228698"][/post]​

Did not AA finally get it's own 3 gates at DAL that it wanted in order to compete with legend? If I remember correctly, they refurbished that part of the terminal with new ticket counters and 3 gates then legend went out of business. I think AA is still paying lease payments on those gates and terminal space even though they quit flying out of Love field right after legend died.

 

[FWAAA]

Did not AA finally get it's own 3 gates at DAL that it wanted in order to compete with legend? If I remember correctly, they refurbished that part of the terminal with new ticket counters and 3 gates then legend went out of business. I think AA is still paying lease payments on those gates and terminal space even though they quit flying out of Love field right after legend died.

[post="228770"][/post]​

AA has been leasing space at DAL since the move to DFW. Yep, plenty of DAL space still leased by AA

And AA didn't cease flying at DAL when Legend died - AA flew from DAL until September 11, several months later. DAL was part of AA's 20% service reduction implemented immediately following September 11.

 

[operaations]

I can't believe you guys are missing the writing on the wall here.

From my perspective (flight attendant) it appears as though they are setting the wheels in motion for less cabin service and more flight attendants cleaning flights.

1. we have the removal of pillows on S-80's.
2. Now we have a sweeper on the S-80 stored in the closet, allegedly for the convenience of cabin service when they begin higher productivity shifts.
3. The company will meet with the AAPFA and they will ask them if we would like to get something back that we never really gave up anyway if we wouldn't mind cleaning more flights and going through with the sweeper. We have a vote that is changed to yes by our illustrious union as they fall all over themselves to make sure management doesn't have to actually give up any perks or money.
4. Cabin service is told "now that the FA's are cleaning more flights we need less of you guys" and the TWU goes for round 3 of BOHICA.

[post="228705"][/post]​

Oh My !!!!! help clean a flight to save a little money and time. What kind of torture will they think of next. How dare the company ask anyone to do a little more. Stand strong flight crews of the world. Never give in to the menial task of plane cleaning. It is so beneath you. Then again so is working over the holidays.

 

[jimntx]

Operaations, it's not the cleaning itself that is the problem. I knew when I became a flight attendant that cleaning the plane on some legs was part of the job. OK.

However, when crew planning/scheduling/whoever creates sequences that result in a 8-12 hour duty day with 4 or 5 legs and no more than 45 minutes between flights AND we are expected to clean the plane on at least one of those legs...

There is a point at which anyone starts to break down. Now, I usually only eat 2 meals/day. However, I do eat. Go look at some of the sequences and you tell me when the flight attendants are supposed to eat. You wouldn't work at AA a week if you were told you will get no meal breaks in an 12-hour shift. Oh, and you are to sign in before any of the restaurants open and you will get to your layover hotel well after the restaurant closes; so, don't count on buying something to eat on the plane.

And, don't blame this on our accepting the RPA last year. At DFW, long before the RPA, I had days like that. Particularly on reserve. I would be given one of those Texas shuffle sequence--DFW-SAT-DFW-AUS-DFW-OKC. There would always be the joke of "a meal will be provided for the extra on the SAT-DFW leg." Two problems...the meal was never boarded and that beeyatch of a gate Supervisor at SAT would just smirk when asked about it. Problem #2: You tell me when I was supposed to eat that ghost meal when we had about 20 actual minutes to do a beverage service for a full a/c!

And, if you exercise your right under U.S. employment law--it actually is against the law to require people to work a full day with no meal break--and stop in the concourse to buy something to eat and you walk up to the gate carrying a sack from MacDonald's or some equally healthy food establishment, the agents are instructed to write you up for delaying the flight.

 

[operaations]

Operaations, it's not the cleaning itself that is the problem. I knew when I became a flight attendant that cleaning the plane on some legs was part of the job. OK.

However, when crew planning/scheduling/whoever creates sequences that result in a 8-12 hour duty day with 4 or 5 legs and no more than 45 minutes between flights AND we are expected to clean the plane on at least one of those legs...

There is a point at which anyone starts to break down. Now, I usually only eat 2 meals/day. However, I do eat. Go look at some of the sequences and you tell me when the flight attendants are supposed to eat. You wouldn't work at AA a week if you were told you will get no meal breaks in an 12-hour shift. Oh, and you are to sign in before any of the restaurants open and you will get to your layover hotel well after the restaurant closes; so, don't count on buying something to eat on the plane.

And, don't blame this on our accepting the RPA last year. At DFW, long before the RPA, I had days like that. Particularly on reserve. I would be given one of those Texas shuffle sequence--DFW-SAT-DFW-AUS-DFW-OKC. There would always be the joke of "a meal will be provided for the extra on the SAT-DFW leg." Two problems...the meal was never boarded and that beeyatch of a gate Supervisor at SAT would just smirk when asked about it. Problem #2: You tell me when I was supposed to eat that ghost meal when we had about 20 actual minutes to do a beverage service for a full a/c!

And, if you exercise your right under U.S. employment law--it actually is against the law to require people to work a full day with no meal break--and stop in the concourse to buy something to eat and you walk up to the gate carrying a sack from MacDonald's or some equally healthy food establishment, the agents are instructed to write you up for delaying the flight.

[post="228839"][/post]​

maybe pack a lunch like the rest of America does when they do not have time to go out and eat.

 

[Skyhungry]

A couple of facts here that are not meant to be inflammatory, but just facts.


2. What you people are missing is that AA was preparing their budget in October and early November when oil was at its peak. The '05 Domestic Customer Service budget from what I understand is really a slash and burn budget. AA was preparing for $50 plus barrel oil and at that price AA is probably looking at a bankruptcy filing in mid-march because the cash balance will dip below $2 billion (the threshold for bankruptcy). Basically everything that could get cut got cut.

[post="228712"][/post]​

Just curious Oneflyer, but where is the financial data to confirm your bankruptcy by mid March analysis (assuming oil at $50)? B) I'm not flaming, I like playing with numbers and I'm trying to make some sense out of your statement. Happy Holidays

 

[jimntx]

maybe pack a lunch like the rest of America does when they do not have time to go out and eat.

[post="228842"][/post]​

You know, I've tried to defend you and the job you do on here before but that smug attitude of yours just lost my support. A flight attendant doesn't start each day at home AS YOU WELL KNOW. And, I don't have a desk where I can eat out of sight of the public like you do. In fact, it's a "write-up" offense to be seen by passengers while eating . And, you still didn't answer just when on that SAT-DFW leg anyone is supposed to eat.

I used to defend the schedulers against the claims of some f/as that you enjoy making life miserable for them, but I'm not so sure anymore.

 

[operaations]

You know, I've tried to defend you and the job you do on here before but that smug attitude of yours just lost my support. A flight attendant doesn't start each day at home AS YOU WELL KNOW. And, I don't have a desk where I can eat out of sight of the public like you do. In fact, it's a "write-up" offense to be seen by passengers while eating . And, you still didn't answer just when on that SAT-DFW leg anyone is supposed to eat.

I used to defend the schedulers against the claims of some f/as that you enjoy making life miserable for them, but I'm not so sure anymore.

[post="228852"][/post]​

As far as the SAT-DFW leg I could not answer that one. I am with you I do not like the way Planning builds the sequences. Most of them are too long on duty and very little connect time. But I have nothing to do about that. But some flight attendants seem to think us as crew schedulers do and blame us for everything. All I do is schedule with that hand that is delt to me. From AMR and APFA. I appreciate all your support in backing us and I do believe you are one of the good ones. But dont assume we as schedulers have all th time in the world. I do not agree with the rule that you may not eat infront of a passenger. If that is so than a place needs to be provided so you can eat. My only point about the cleaning the planes is not directed at you. You know exactly who it is directed at. It is directed at the type of person that has a blatent disregard for their co workers and the company in general. I will walk a mile in your shoes jim on any bad sequence you pick so i may see exactly what you are talking about. And you sit with us here in Crew Sched and see the daily abuse we take from crew members on the phone. We are not allowed to say anything back but yet we are supposed to take it. life sucks at times but we all learn to deal with it

 

[operaations]

back on topic. What is the supposed announcement

 

[Skymess]

Oh My !!!!! help clean a flight to save a little money and time. What kind of torture will they think of next. How dare the company ask anyone to do a little more. Stand strong flight crews of the world. Never give in to the menial task of plane cleaning. It is so beneath you. Then again so is working over the holidays.

[post="228835"][/post]​

My point was to cabin service who were wondering how the company thought they would turn the birds around so fast if cabin was expected to do things on the ground AND clean the airplane. If you had basic reading comprehension skills you would have seen that.

But as long as we are on the topic, yes, how DARE they try to ask anything more of me 'cause they aren't getting it. That it, until the union once again changes my no vote to yes.

I would have had NO problem giving concessions when we needed them, if they were fair. To obliterate my contract without any snap back clause in sight was unconscionable and they will be lucky to even have ANY yes votes the next time around , if there is a next time around, because we have nothing left to give and those who voted yes last time realize how badly they were duped by AA and by AAPFA. The good news is that we have a different CEO and we have a 'somewhat' different AAPFA.

I admire all the workers at AA for what they do with what we have. Believe it or not, I even like Arpey because unlike many of our competitor CEO's, the man has a plan. You, on the other hand, do not seem to like flight attendants. It is always easy to judge someone when you don't do the job and I will cut you some slack for that.

What type of operations do you do?