AAA ALPA Topic 8/31/07 - 9/06/07

[luvn737s]

And the TA still requires independent ratification by both sides. So USAPA is powerless to get the west to vote yes on anything. After much teeth gnashing, a "pro-ALPA" juggernaut will develop and USAPA may be forced to fall on its sword to get any new contract. And that contract will have the Nicolau decision implemented.

Your time is valuable. Abandon the USAPA career cul-de-sac.

 

[nostradamus]

That says it all right there...the rest is pure rhetoric.

East pilots do yourself a huge favor and do not listen to anyone who says they can overturn the award by getting rid of ALPA. It will be a huge disappointment.

"During my career, my fellow pilots and I have fought against notorious airline management figures such as Frank Lorenzo, Carl Icahn, and Dick Ferris, because we wanted to take action during a time of economic uncertainty."

John Prater quote above

You lost them all John, you are out of touch.Praters out of touch article

Typical ALPA rhetoric in Praters article, blame it all on the foot soldiers and not the "leaders" in the ivory ALPA tower.

 

[AWA320]

"During my career, my fellow pilots and I have fought against notorious airline management figures such as Frank Lorenzo, Carl Icahn, and Dick Ferris, because we wanted to take action during a time of economic uncertainty."

John Prater quote above

You lost them all John, you are out of touch.Praters out of touch article

Typical ALPA rhetoric in Praters article, blame it all on the foot soldiers and not the "leaders" in the ivory ALPA tower.

Oh brother here we go...

 

[nostradamus]

Oh brother here we go...

Very insightful retort.

 

[SkyRat]

Very insightful retort.

Hey Prophet...

Chill for a day or two. Take a break from the boards. The Binding (or non) Award. Dream about USAPA, UA or whatever's next. Be glad that WoerthLess is not around (he would have forwarded the list the VERY next day). Enjoy your attrition, new paint job, L93, No Catpiss call sign, the long weekend... Family, wife, kidds, the TEMPE Circus... Basically EVERYTHING you have in life... Life's too short!

Taking life WAAAY to serious there. Maybe someday you'll swing gear 4 me , or I'll be glad to do it for you. As a Professional.

GL

 

[john john]

*shrug* Who is qualified to have an opinion? Those, like you and 320Pilot, who honestly thought that DOH (or even LOS) had a snowball's chance in hades? How'd that work?

This non-pilot along with every union on the property (except ALPA) went with DOH. WHY? BECAUSE ALPA IS NOT A UNION ANY MORE

 

[AAA73Pilot]

And the TA still requires independent ratification by both sides. So USAPA is powerless to get the west to vote yes on anything. After much teeth gnashing, a "pro-ALPA" juggernaut will develop and USAPA may be forced to fall on its sword to get any new contract.

That's a very interesting comment and does bring up an important point. The assumption is we do not have a TA before the new union is on board. If elected, USAPA now represents all pilots. There is no more east and west under the structure and framework of the new union. So by default, the joint negotiating committee is also rendered moot because bargaining for a new CBA occurs between the company and USAPA. 2 parties, not 3. The pilots voted to give up the east west ratification oversight in the TA by electing USAPA.

So how does USAPA have to fall on the sword to get a new contract? It now represents all pilots. The new negotiators will be able to negotiate from a position of strength and whatever TA that is brought before the membership for ratificaton will be voted on by the membership as a whole. Majority vote wins / ratifies. ALPA rules like the past are removed and USAPA rules are in place. Very interesting.

 

[Strider]

Maybe someone can answer this. Some are claiming to have 2000 plus cards for decertification. I read some where here that furloughed pilots can vote for decertification. I have also read some pilots are done with airways, who were on furlough, and not coming back. If these pilots have sent in decertification cards, pilots not coming back, are they counted with the ones you already have? And do you knpw how many pilots have resigned, if any.

Just curious.

 

[USA320Pilot]

“When we are in partnership and have stopped clutching each other's throats, when we have stopped enslaving each other, we will stand together, hands clasped, and be friends. We will be comrades, we will be brothers, and we will begin the march to the grandest civilization the human race has ever known.â€

So spoke Eugene Victor Debs from his home in Girard , Kansas on May 14, 1908. Debs founded the American Railway Union in June 1883 and was the most recognized and feared leader of the labor movement in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries. In his three runs for President, Debs received a higher percentage of votes of any third party candidate up until that date, except for Theodore Roosevelt’s Bull Moose Party in 1912.

While his words may sound dated, his message is prophetic and still strikes a chord in all those who truly believe in solidarity, unity and the labor movement. But Mr. Debs’ words must also strike a chord for all those pilots at US Airways, who today live in this ongoing purgatory of not knowing what our seniority fate might be and figuratively “clutching each others’ throats.â€

A cadre of East rank and file members is actively pursuing a representation drive in an attempt to remove ALPA as the Collective Bargaining Agent of both pilot groups. Although the term “De-Certification†does not appear in the NMB book on “representation†elections, we all understand the concept and what is going on. The intent of that rank and file grass root organization is to remove (de-certify) ALPA as our CBA.

U-Turn has remained silent on the issue of ALPA “De-Certificationâ€â€¦until now. We believe this Labor Day is a fitting moment to begin expressing our opinion. We will do so in a series of articles. We will explain our opinion, how we arrived at it, as well as the pros and cons of a “de-certification†election. U-Turn does have a position that it will announce at the conclusion of these articles. Meanwhile, we believe it is essential that every pilot, whether East or West, understands what is at stake…the up side and the down side of removing ALPA as the US Airways CBA. We will attempt to give you a prospective that you are not getting from your respective MECs.

U-Turn has made a number of statements on the subject of “The List†over the past three months. Regardless of how one feels about “The List,†it was reached during binding arbitration. And “it is what it is.†We do not believe a change in our Collective Bargaining Agent can change the list. ALPA, however, believes they can change the list into a living, breathing, working document in which all sides will find nirvana and Hog Heaven. According to our fearless leaders in Herndon, the impact of the “List†can be modified by (how did the Rice Committee put it?)…by:

“…discussion focused on the Executive Council’s recent resolution, which calls on all parties to explore solutions that may lead to a merged agreement, umbrella agreements, or multiple agreements.â€

You’ve GOT to love the Herndon spin. Attempting to get two MECs to comply with the will of the Executive Council and agree to:

“…developing consensual approaches that promote mutual career protection and mutual success.â€

We’ve got to wonder. Which is more ridiculous…The absurd EC Resolutions or Herndon’s misguided belief that any of them will work?

Meanwhile, four months after the “Nic†decision was handed down, it has still not been presented to the company.

WHY?

U-Turn can come to no other conclusion other than ALPA National doesn’t have the will or the courage to present it. The question obviously becomes: why not? Why not present “The List†to the company and be done with it, letting the chips fall where they may?

We have an answer to that question. It’s called dues money!

While not presenting the list frustrates West pilots, presenting the list would most certainly add enough cards to the USAPA campaign to force an election and potentially enough support from the East alone to potentially remove ALPA.

The failure by ALPA National to either fish or cut bait leaves both sides vulnerable to the whip-sawing that we now see going on. It allows both ALPA and the company to wear down the resolve of both East and West. Any doubt that isn’t going on right now?

Cutting to the chase, the ALPA National “Rope-a-Dope†will continue until there is enough pressure put on ALPA to either fish or cut bait regarding presenting the Nicolau Award. And it makes no difference where that pressure comes from.

Out West many of us have sent emails to Herndon. Many have removed themselves from DCO. Others claim to be refusing to pay dues. Over 200 pilots showed up to protest the Rice Committee and ALPA’s refusal to present the list. And our MEC has been relentless in its campaign against the East. But it has all been for naught. The list still has not been presented. We are no closer to that list being presented today than we were four months ago.

We at U-Turn (and U-Turn is more than just two “renegade†West pilots) believe that the only way to make ALPA present the list is to threaten Herndon with its life’s blood: your union dues. Right now the only organized threat to ALPA’s $6 million in yearly dues money is the threat of a representation election campaign being carried out by USAPA. They are the only game in town. Are we supporting the USAPA drive? We’ll answer that in article three of this series. If you think you got a hint of the answer in this U-Turn…you probably bet on Michigan last weekend.

NEXT: The Pros and Cons of sending in an interest card.

Part III: The Pros and Cons of voting ALPA off the Island

Part IV: What U-Turn thinks we should do and why…

For the Mighty U-Turn

 

[john john]

For this reason that is why you need more cards for a comfortable filing with the NMB in case some are challenge by the nemesis. CWA went thought 2 election and 6 appeals just to have a union.CWA was counting on the company(Glass and gang)to trying every trick in the book to try to kick the union off the property for the agents that is why CWA seal the deal with the company.CWA is the only union on the property to have a transition agreement because of this threat.If there were another election with the agents the company would spin the current pay and benefits place on the East agents as the union’s fault therefore no union is needed.Sometimes the agent group is naïve

 

[BottomFeeder]

How can you guarantee that? The USAPA raison d'etre is to violate a legally binding agreement. They are corrupt from the get-go. USAPA has shown no evidence of supporting the AWA pilots nor do they care about the hundreds of US pilots suffering needlessly under LOA93.

If USAPA was mounting a recall of Stephan, then I might think they are merely anti-ALPA, but they have proven themselves to be an alter-ego of US the US MEC and have targeted the AWA pilot group as their primary advesary.

Please prove me wrong, because if they are doing something productive for ALL the US pilots that I'm unaware of, I'd be happy to hear it.

ALPA has been and will always be just an Association of Pilots.



Recalling Prater and the whole group at National would be a great start but right now there are more pressing issues.

 

[nostradamus]

Hey Prophet...

Chill for a day or two. Take a break from the boards. The Binding (or non) Award. Dream about USAPA, UA or whatever's next. Be glad that WoerthLess is not around (he would have forwarded the list the VERY next day). Enjoy your attrition, new paint job, L93, No Catpiss call sign, the long weekend... Family, wife, kidds, the TEMPE Circus... Basically EVERYTHING you have in life... Life's too short!

Taking life WAAAY to serious there. Maybe someday you'll swing gear 4 me , or I'll be glad to do it for you. As a Professional.

GL

You are a 10 year captain who wants to vault over everyone and make it to the top the easy way. Your history of posts are littered with advice for posters to chill when the are speaking up about this atrocity. I will make sure this will never, ever work for the future pilots that get into this industry. And for some reason this award goes through, I will have a very professional time my last years here, we will get to know each other very well.

 

[Phoenix]

Oh brother here we go...

Hey, I recognize that airplane in your avatar. I helped broker the sale to China. They cut it up into scrap, melted it down and turned it into a gazzilion Matchbox size Hotweels toy cars. Those cars are freaking antiiques now.

 

[ClueByFour]

The pilots voted to give up the east west ratification oversight in the TA by electing USAPA.

Actually, no. Any successor is bound by the rules and agreements of the in-place CBA. A joint contract would indeed require the entity formerly known as ALPA-West to independently ratify it.

I was wondering how long it would take before someone brought this up. So much for the DOH cramdown, eh?

 

[USA320Pilot]

MEC CHAIRMAN’S MESSAGE - September 3, 2007

This is MEC Chairman Jack Stephan with a Labor Day message to the pilots for Monday, September 03, 2007.

Last week we conducted our first series of crewroom visits since the release of the Nicolau award and I really enjoyed talking to so many of you. We heard from hundreds of pilots in PHL, DCA and CLT, who had a wide array of topics that they wanted to discuss. Of course, the number one topic remains the Nicolau award, and rightfully so, as it has the greatest impact on our careers. Concerns relative to the award, such as capturing our own attrition, furlough protection and protections in the next transaction are all echoed by your MEC and remain our top priority.

Many pilots also spoke of their personal financial hardships relating to “Equal Pay for Equal Work†and of industry standard contracts. In all my years of union work, I have never seen this pilot group so agitated and at this level of discontent and frustration. And Doug Parker’s recent letter to the US Airways Pilots concerning his view on our quest for parity, just seemed to add fuel to existing emotions and indignation.

As our strategy at this time is now stabilized with respect to dealing with the Nicolau award, we must now refocus our efforts on achieving financial returns and the leveling of the playing field. We need “Equal Pay for Equal Work,†as it is the appropriate starting point for achieving a collective bargaining agreement that not only ensures career protections but also recognizes our investment and sacrifices that have enabled the survivability and profitability of our airline.

As we celebrate the Labor Day Holiday this year, we must find ways to gain respect for the contributions of labor in an era when Labor is under attack from greedy managements, profit-hoarding companies, bankruptcy courts, government and our current presidential administration. The MEC’s strategy, put forth by the Strike Prep Committee and Communications, will need your help and support as we try to increase the influence of Labor in this hostile environment. We are continually searching for new, effective ways to deliver our message and to convince our management that this pilot group is sick and tired of being treated as second class citizens. You can help deliver that message by participating in the “Send Button†campaign this Holiday weekend. You will have the opportunity to communicate directly to Doug Parker your feelings on how he has treated this pilot group and how he is running our airline.

Please stay informed and continue to follow the three prong approach. As always, fly safe and thanks for listening.