AAA ALPA Thread 9-21 to 9-27

[AWA320]

Just curious...has the east MEC said if they will be sending their negotiators to the JNC meetings on the 24th? It would seem like that is the only avenue that remains open for their voices to be heard and have any input to the future CBA proposal.

I really really hope that they don't however I have a feeling that they just can't be that stupid!! They have left a trail of their not properly representing their entire pilot group and the time has finally come for the adults (national) to step in and show their pilots the company proposal which I think is in the neighborhood of $160 to 165/hr for narrow body.

 

[767jetz]

All of them at one time or another (except 190Jetz), plus 727Jetz, DC9Jetz. What about you Junior?

My, my... this bitter attitude is obviously a universal affliction with you "old-timers" of the East. How sad.
Since you asked... 727,737,DC9,MD83G,319/320,757,767,&L1011. Happy now?

Geeeeezzz! I just thought you had a cool callsign. Chill out, old-timer.

767jetz

 

[USA320Pilot]

MEC CODE-A-PHONE UPDATE

September 21, 2007

This is Richard Obermeyer with a US Airways MEC update for Friday, September 21st, with four new items.

Item 1. The MEC held a special conference call meeting this afternoon. This meeting lasted approximately four hours. The MEC spent this time discussing various strategies for moving forward both in achieving pay parity and protecting the AAA pilots from the devastating effects of the Nicolau award. The resolutions passed during this conference call meeting will be posted on the pilots’ only web site. The MEC decided to convene a special meeting on Monday to continue these strategy discussions.

Item 2. For those of you unfamiliar with the SAP procedures, the Scheduling Committee has provided a copy of the SAP manual on the pilots’ only web site. Simply go to the web site and look under Committees/Central Scheduling Committee, then scroll down to the SAP section where you will find the SAP manual in PDF format.

Additionally, you may find it helpful to review Section 25©3 of the contract for more Schedule Adjustment Period (SAP) information. If you no longer have a hard copy of the contract, it too can be found on the pilots only web site under Contracts and LOAs in the MEC Fast-Links on the left hand side of the home page.

LOA 93 negatively impacted and modified one element of SAP. That change consists of the following: “The SAP floor will remain 15 hours below the applicable pay cap. For example, a pay cap increase to 95:00 will cause the SAP floor to increase to 80:00. The SAP floor for pilots on the 75-Hour Option shall be 60:00.â€

Remember that you can adjust the min SAP floor by the amount of positive bank you have. For example a 95-hour pay cap would result in an 80-hour SAP floor. If you have 15 hours positive bank, you can adjust your min SAP floor down to 65 hours. To accomplish this, simply adjust your min floor in the lower right hand side of your Unit 1 SAP screen by overtyping the indicated floor value with an adjusted amount based on the positive bank you have, as indicated in the upper right portion of the Option 45 (SAP) screen.

For those of you who missed it, the November cap for the PHL 76I and 330 has been changed to 85.

If you still need help, please don’t hesitate to contact one of the Scheduling Committee members for more information. Their contact information is on the pilots’ only website in the MEC Directory under the Fast-Links and in the US AIRWAVES gray pages.

Remember that November Sap bidding opens September 21st and closes September 26th. At the recent MEC Quarterly Meeting, the MEC passed a resolution recognizing that US Airways pilots have faced multiple sequential months of 95 hour pay caps and 5 hour flexes for the majority of 2007 and that the amount of time away from home that is required to fly such monthly schedules creates extreme hardships on our families. Since holiday months are traditionally time spent with family and friends, the MEC has designated November 2007 as “SAP Awareness Month" so as to offer some relief from the hardships placed on the pilots' families. During November’s "SAP Awareness Month 2007,†the US Airways MEC members, officers, committee members and all ALPA members on AFB status, will limit their scheduled hours to the minimum allowed through SAP and any other legal means.

Item 3. September 27th will mark two full years since the US Airways/America West merger. Since that time, US Airways management has not only generously helped themselves to the spoils that our sacrifices have provided them, they have made sure that most other employee groups have received pay raises and pay parity to the higher pay levels of either East or West. Two years later, although management has the financial resources that were produced by our enormous concessions--we are still waiting.

No matter where you stand on many of our daunting issues, if you believe in the Equal Pay for Equal Work concept and if you have had enough of the treatment East pilots receive while everyone else benefits from our investment, then join us for a pilot-wide picketing event on Thursday, September 27th, our two year anniversary, at the Reagan National Airport. Picketing will be held from 11:30 a.m. until 1:30 p.m. A flyer with all the details, including the assembly point and time, has been posted on the pilots’ only website under What's New and has also been emailed to all pilots.

Item 4. Given the employee-management relations here at US Airways and the fact that many of our furloughed pilots have refused to come back on property, we thought it would be helpful to provide job opportunity information to all our pilots. A pilot job fair is being held on September 22nd in Washington, DC, at the Hyatt Regency Reston Hotel. There will be 35-plus airlines that will be attending and pilots will be able to meet recruiters, hand out resumes. Specific hiring information for each airline can be found on our web site under What's New.

News you can use:

W.A.R. Item 917

FOM
Warning: Do not attempt to land from an unstabilized approach. The decision to go around is not an indication of poor performance, but rather good judgment.

Educate to Vacate

Below is a link to a video recording of a PHX pilot meeting with Parker on February 6, 2007. This video is posted on both the AWA and AAA Pilot’s company web sites as is all the other meetings that Parker held with employees. Parker's consistent message which has never changed, was that AWA would be in bankruptcy and would have down sized and taken pay cuts absent the merger with US Airways and that the merger was mutually beneficial for both companies.

See Story

Equal pay for Equal Work:

It has been 21 days since September 1, 2007, the start of retro active pay.
Money to be paid to each Group 2 Captain is $1125
Money to be paid to each Group 2 First Officer is $552
Pilots on all other aircraft will receive the same percentage increase as Group 2 Pilots (approximately 15%).

Follow the three-prong approach, fly safe and thanks for listening.

 

[AWA320]

I really really hope that they don't however I have a feeling that they just can't be that stupid!! They have left a trail of their not properly representing their entire pilot group and the time has finally come for the adults (national) to step in and show their pilots the company proposal which I think is in the neighborhood of $160 to 165/hr for narrow body.

This just in!!!! The east MEC is completely out of control and should have been recalled long ago!! I can not believe how the pilots on the east have allowed this and now they will lose even more. They have pilots who now and will continue to retire under LOA93. How sad, how very very sad...

BELOW IS THE RESOLUTION REFERRED TO IN THE ATTACHED LETTER.






Capt. Prater—Here is the Resolution as it was forwarded to the MEC. Jeffrey

TFBIR that the AAA JNC will not attend the convening of the full JNC in Washington, DC, on Sept. 24th and 25th, nor participate in the JNC negotiations with the Company scheduled for Sept. 25th and 26th.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[767jetz]

Just curious...has the east MEC said if they will be sending their negotiators to the JNC meetings on the 24th? It would seem like that is the only avenue that remains open for their voices to be heard and have any input to the future CBA proposal.

Probably not initially since the East MEC passed a resolution prohibiting their negotiating committee from participating in the JNC process. So they will first have to pass a new resolution. Either way, the process will start to move along finally. Even if the USAPA calls for a vote of representation that process will take some time. It won't happen overnight. And as I said in another thread, there is finally an opportunity for the East pilots to get not only pay parity but a raise above parity, plus a "bonus" of a retroactive check (of about 4 months). I think a majority (not all, and certainly not the vocal few on this site) of East pilots will decide to sit tight and see what happens. They could always look at the TA, vote it down, and then pull the trigger on USAPA. But most will want to see what materializes from the JNC and have an actual vote, (something their MEC rarely gives them). If they like what they read, they will have much more money, better schedules, better retirement, and career protection by January, rather than waiting out the slow growth under LOA 93 while entangled in a legal mess and countless law suits under the USAPA.

IMO the 300-400 East pilots who may see a captain upgrade in the next year will vote against any TA, but the rest will see this for what it is... No bump from their pre-merger position, and very large income and quality of life improvement for their families.

The spin from a few here will continue through December with their FUD campaign because they can't get beyond the fact that the award still stands after all their futile efforts, and they will hold their DOH/LOS AT ALL COST position until the day they retire. They are the same malcontents who are always bitter when things don't go exactly the way they want. They will continue to come here and talk about how the EC's decision is actually good for their cause, the USAPA will save them, and threaten the West that it is their last chance to compromise (ie: capitulate to their demands) before having things imposed on them, and blah, blah, blah. There is nothing anyone will ever be able to do to please them.

Additionally, if the East pilots continue to choose to use sick leave and three engine taxis and other methods to slow down the operation, it will only increase Parker's motivation to sweeten the pot.

 

[USA320Pilot]

US Air, Pilots Still Talking

US Airways CEO: "I don't believe we're going to get a contract ratified that has that list go into effect immediately. There's no way."

See Story

USA320Pilot comments: Doug Parker gets it. Too bad the AWA MEC does not get it and if they do not get it in short order then USAPA will have the NMB authorize an election, which AWA MEC Chairman John McIlvenna indicated that he "fully expect to be in a representation election in a matter of days."

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[P51Pilot]

This just in!!!! The east MEC is completely out of control and should have been recalled long ago!! I can not believe how the pilots on the east have allowed this and now they will lose even more. They have pilots who now and will continue to retire under LOA93. How sad, how very very sad...

BELOW IS THE RESOLUTION REFERRED TO IN THE ATTACHED LETTER.




Capt. Prater—Here is the Resolution as it was forwarded to the MEC. Jeffrey

TFBIR that the AAA JNC will not attend the convening of the full JNC in Washington, DC, on Sept. 24th and 25th, nor participate in the JNC negotiations with the Company scheduled for Sept. 25th and 26th.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They are doing exactly what we want, what we demand. There will be no joint contract with Nic award. You speak of 165 hr for narrowbody, hah it used to be 225 hr. Raises can come and go with great ease. A geopolitical event or an economic downturn and its gone. I think everyone on the east recognizes that and how much worse thing can and would be, if our seniority was gone.

Right on East MEC!

 

[USA320Pilot]

767jetz,

767jetz said: “ Even if the USAPA calls for a vote of representation that process will take some time. It won't happen overnight. And as I said in another thread, there is finally an opportunity for the East pilots to get not only pay parity but a raise above parity, plus a "bonus" of a retroactive check (of about 4 months). I think a majority (not all, and certainly not the vocal few on this site) of East pilots will decide to sit tight and see what happens. They could always look at the TA, vote it down, and then pull the trigger on USAPA. But most will want to see what materializes from the JNC and have an actual vote, (something their MEC rarely gives them). If they like what they read, they will have much more money, better schedules, better retirement, and career protection by January, rather than waiting out the slow growth under LOA 93 while entangled in a legal mess and countless law suits under the USAPA.â€￾

USA320Pilot comments: That is what you hope happens because I believe you’re always posting information to try and persuade the US Airways pilots in a way that could benefit you. You’re still scared about a possible UA-US merger and its effects on you, but you are truly clueless regarding the vast majority of US Airways pilots sentiment.

Furthermore, the resolve was clearly evident when about 450 pilots traveled to Herodon on May 21 and why there are over 2,450 Authorization Cards submitted to USAPA.

Apparently Doug Parker understands the sentiment, and he is CEO, but you as an Internet Warrior do not. How can that be?

See Story

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[767jetz]

Capt. Prater—Here is the Resolution as it was forwarded to the MEC. Jeffrey

TFBIR that the AAA JNC will not attend the convening of the full JNC in Washington, DC, on Sept. 24th and 25th, nor participate in the JNC negotiations with the Company scheduled for Sept. 25th and 26th.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WOW! Just saw this. If it is true, then I am shocked. I thought it would take them a few days of fighting before they finally pass a resolution to attend. I didn't think they'd be that dumb as to sit out the JNC meetings. Now the EC will have no choice but to sit in for them. Well that should certainly help move things forward even faster.

AWA320, I agree. The East MEC should have been recalled long ago. It's amazing how much damage they are doing to their members. Now they refuse to even be part of the process. Like a bunch of spoiled children. Perhaps they know that it is inevitable that a Joint Contract will go out for a vote, and they want to shield themselves from having to take any ownership of it. I think they are playing a game of chicken, hoping a TA won't pass, and then saying "See... don't blame us. We had nothing to do with it!"

 

[USA320Pilot]

AWA320,

AWA320 said: "This just in!!!! The east MEC is completely out of control and should have been recalled long ago!! I can not believe how the pilots on the east have allowed this and now they will lose even more. They have pilots who now and will continue to retire under LOA93."

USA320Pilot comments: You sound surpirsed. I have been telling you that (and people like 767jetz) since May 5, 2007. Here's what you do not get. The US Airways piltos would prefer to live under LOA 93 and not implement the Nicolau Award then obtain a new contract and have the Nicolau Award implemented. Why? They get pay raises when First Officer's become Captain's, Reserves become Lineholders, and Narrowbody piltos become Widebody pilots. Furthermore, on January 1, 2010 each pilot gets about a $12,000 bonus and another $12,000 bonus payment on January 1, 2011, and even more important, they get to keep their current scheduling system instead of "Pref Bid".

As I indicated earlier to 767jetz, Doug Parker gets it and so should you. Parker told Ted Reed, " don't believe we're going to get a contract ratified that has that list go into effect immediately. There's no way."

See Story

If the AWA MEC does not want to negotiate a compormise then lets just live under separate contracts, the West can enter into Section 6 negotiations, USAPA can have more time to replace ALPA, and then in the first of 2008 (just a couple of months away) we can begin discussing the USAPA Constituiton and By-Laws.

By the way, if ALPA intervenes and attempts to negotiate a contract for the East pilots it will invite a Civil War and increase the resolve to kick ALPA off of the property. Come to think of it maybe that is just what the East MEC wants to speed up the process.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[767jetz]

USA320Pilot comments: That is what you hope happens because I believe you’re always posting information to try and persuade the US Airways pilots in a way that could benefit you.

Just the way you repeat your threats and propaganda like a broken record, hoping to sway fence sitters? Just like you repeat false or heavily biased information over and over in a hope that others might start to believe you are right, even when you are so often dead wrong?

Apparently it is impossible to get you to understand that others are allowed to have opinions that are contrary to yours. There are many who happen to agree with me, so it's not just what I "hope happens." It is a real probability. In fact, people like Junebug, Bear96, and myself have been more accurate and on the mark with the issues than you have ever been. Just look at the track record.

The East pilots will see an opportunity to make great strides in pay and quality of life through the JNC. And now that your MEC refuses to participate in the process it appears even more certain to happen on the "Fast Track" when the ALPA EC sits at the negotiating table on behalf of the East. Most East pilots will sit tight to see what happens. They will get a vote, which is something the East MEC rarely gives them, and then they will decide for themselves what is best for their families. They will no longer have the MEC speak for them, coach them, or prep them, or tell them what to say. They will speak for themselves for the first time in a long time with their vote.

You’re still scared about a possible UA-US merger and its effects on you, but you are truly clueless regarding the vast majority of US Airways pilots sentiment.

There you go again with the condescending and disrespectful tone. I've attempted to be civilized with you, and through several PM's tried to get you to close your mouth and open your ears a bit more... You know... listen to what other's have to say more and talk at people a bit less. Obviously with little success. With you I give up. Good luck to you.

 

[Bear96]

I believe you’re always posting information to try and persuade the US Airways pilots in a way that could benefit you.

Classic.

 

[Bear96]

AWA320,

AWA320 said: "This just in!!!! The east MEC is completely out of control and should have been recalled long ago!! I can not believe how the pilots on the east have allowed this and now they will lose even more. They have pilots who now and will continue to retire under LOA93."

USA320Pilot comments: You sound surpirsed. I have been telling you that (and people like 767jetz) since May 5, 2007. Here's what you do not get. The US Airways piltos would prefer to live under LOA 93 and not implement the Nicolau Award then obtain a new contract and have the Nicolau Award implemented. Why? They get pay raises when First Officer's become Captain's, Reserves become Lineholders, and Narrowbody piltos become Widebody pilots. Furthermore, on January 1, 2010 each pilot gets about a $12,000 bonus and another $12,000 bonus payment on January 1, 2011, and even more important, they get to keep their current scheduling system instead of "Pref Bid".

As I indicated earlier to 767jetz, Doug Parker gets it and so should you. Parker told Ted Reed, " don't believe we're going to get a contract ratified that has that list go into effect immediately. There's no way."

See Story

If the AWA MEC does not want to negotiate a compormise then lets just live under separate contracts, the West can enter into Section 6 negotiations, USAPA can have more time to replace ALPA, and then in the first of 2008 (just a couple of months away) we can begin discussing the USAPA Constituiton and By-Laws.

By the way, if ALPA intervenes and attempts to negotiate a contract for the East pilots it will invite a Civil War and increase the resolve to kick ALPA off of the property. Come to think of it maybe that is just what the East MEC wants to speed up the process.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Oops -- silly you, you forgot to include, in typically clumsy prose,

USAPA will have the NMB authorize an election, which AWA MEC Chairman John McIlvenna indicated that he "fully expect to be in a representation election in a matter of days."

 

[BluePacific]

The East pilots will see an opportunity to make great strides in pay and quality of life through the JNC. And now that your MEC refuses to participate in the process it appears even more certain to happen on the "Fast Track" when the ALPA EC sits at the negotiating table on behalf of the East. Most East pilots will sit tight to see what happens. They will get a vote, which is something the East MEC rarely gives them, and then they will decide for themselves what is best for their families. They will no longer have the MEC speak for them, coach them, or prep them, or tell them what to say. They will speak for themselves for the first time in a long time with their vote.
There you go again with the condescending and disrespectful tone. I've attempted to be civilized with you, and through several PM's tried to get you to close your mouth and open your ears a bit more... You know... listen to what other's have to say more and talk at people a bit less. Obviously with little success. With you I give up. Good luck to you.
[/quote]

While * is already a captain, I'm 22 year co-pilot. Co-pilot pay tops out at 12 years and since it looks like I'm stuck there until I retire, any TA that does not include rate raises for first officers for years 12 to 25, is getting a big NO from me and the rest of the guys I know.
Misery loves company, pull up a chair boys.

*MOD NOTE-NO names or initials of other posters.

 

[Phoenix]

I really really hope that they don't however I have a feeling that they just can't be that stupid!! They have left a trail of their not properly representing their entire pilot group and the time has finally come for the adults (national) to step in and show their pilots the company proposal which I think is in the neighborhood of $160 to 165/hr for narrow body.

Ahhh.... $165 today.... then now we know what his lowest starting point is. He ain't even close. I think he started drinking again.