Aa To Buy Ual Pacific-rumor

[TWAnr]

What was the range of the 880?

[post="177977"][/post]​

Max range 2,858 miles.

The Lost Dream

Convair 880

 

[kirkpatrick]

Let me add that my very first flight in a jet was in an 880, Alaska Airlines, from Anchorage to Seattle in the summer of 1965. They called it their "Golden Nugget" jet.

MK

 

[MCI transplant]

Let me add that my very first flight in a jet was in an 880, Alaska Airlines, from Anchorage to Seattle in the summer of 1965. They called it their "Golden Nugget" jet.

MK

[post="178413"][/post]​

<_< Convair later came out with the 990. Bet of a disapointment! Somehow didn't live up to expectations! I forget what Airline flew them, but it wasn't TWA!

 

[Wretched Wrench]

<_< Convair later came out with the 990. Bet of a disapointment! Somehow didn't live up to expectations! I forget what Airline flew them, but it wasn't TWA!

[post="178690"][/post]​

AA had them, and, they were indeed a disappointment. AA actually got a partial refund from Convair due to their not meeting specs, and cancelled further orders. As I remember, they could fly LAX to JFK, but not vice versa, so AA just didn't schedule them for transcons.

 

[TWAnr]

AA had them, and, they were indeed a disappointment. AA actually got a partial refund from Convair due to their not meeting specs, and cancelled further orders. As I remember, they could fly LAX to JFK, but not vice versa, so AA just didn't schedule them for transcons.

[post="178693"][/post]​

Here is the story as told at Aircraft-photos.net:

TWA ordered about 30 aircrafts but while 18 of them were under construction, the airline announced that it couldn't pay Convair! That problem was solved and TWA obtained 27 aircrafts. The problem was that the orders were not enough and Convair was selling the aircraft at a very low price that was not able to cover the cost for its construction! Convair managed to sell only 47 aircrafts in the USA and should find new customers from abroad. Cathay Pacific, Japan Airlines and other airlines showed interest but finally, only 65 planes were constructed. It was then that Convair made another mistake by promising to American Airlines to develop an improved version of 880 for an order of 25 aircrafts, the Model 30 (Convair 990).

The new aircraft was using improved engines, the General Electric CJ-805-23B. Convair promised that the 990 would have maximum speed of 1,116km/h. The plane was designed with modern techniques so as to decrease the drag force. Simultaneously, measures were taken in order to increase the range of the aircraft. Despite the promised performance, only American Airlines, Swissair, SAS and Varig ordered it.

When the first 990's were completed in 1961, the results were disappointing. The aircraft didn't have the expected performance. The airlines were annoyed with that and SAS cancelled the order. The plane didn't have enough range (not even for a flight form the western coast of USA to the eastern) and speed was not the promised one. So, Convair had to urgently do something to fix the problems. So, the company did many modifications to the aircraft and informed the companies that in a year the aircraft would have the suitable performance. American Airlines used 20 aircrafts, instead of the 25 ordered, Swissair used 8 and Varig 3. Only 35 Convair 990 were constructed (including aircrafts that were not delivered) and the last commercial flight of the type was done in 1987.

Convair lost in the programme of 880/990 more than 450 million dollars in 1962 prices! That price was a quarter of the total value of the company! The damage was very big. Despite that, Convair 880/990 was included at the best planes ever created! Their comfort, high speed and reliability made them very popular and every pilot wanted to fly them.

The Convair 880/990 by Dimitris Papadogiannis

And this angle of the AA order from Super70s.com:

In 1959, Braniff Airlines managed to score some Boeing 707-120s with the new powerful Pratt & Whitney JT4 engines that were designed for the intercontinental version of the plane (707-320). Braniff's CEO Chuck Beard called them "The Jet with the Big Engines" and crowed about how he had the fastest jets.

American Airlines president C.R. Smith was not about to let that lead stand unchallenged and ordered 25 jets from Convair that were contractually guarenteed to be the fastest ever cruising at a cool 635 mph. He also saw these jets as the aircraft for his planned nonstop coast-to-coast service. The Convair 600 - as it was then known - promised to shave 45 minutes off the cross country times of the Boeings of TWA or the DC-8s of United.

Convair ran into a series of problems with the newly designed aircraft which gave Boeing the time it needed to introduce faster aircraft. Convair's problems included the fact that the aircraft they came up with could only cruise at 584 mph without major modifications.

Boeing and Douglas were making fewer aircraft than they were selling and American felt they had no choice but to stick with Convair. They did, however, cancel the last five of its original order of 25 after the performance problems were discovered (and they received millions back from Convair for the latter's inability to meet the guarantee). Of the 20, 15 were purchased with a new performance guarantee of 584 mph while Convair promised to modify the final five so they'd be able to cruise at 620 mph (American later modified the other 15 itself).

Further delays meant that American was unable to take delivery of the aircraft it had ordered to compete with Braniff in 1959 until January of 1962! Worse, the longest flight an American 990 ever made was among the last - a New York to Phoenix flight in 1968. No coast to coast service was ever offered.

American was still unhappy as this gave them an aircraft that cruised no faster than its (or its competitors) 707/720s but used more fuel and flew less passengers. American sold off all of its 990s within seven years (with the exception of one lost in a fire*).

Convair 990

 

[extwacaptain]

Since you asked, here is Captain Kramer's favorite plane:

Convair 880 N819TW in 1960s livery at Denver in 1972​

[post="177787"][/post]​

Thank you, TWAnr, that airplane was the favorite of many.

Just how great was it? Well, an attempt will be made to put this in perspective. During my interview with TWA in 1945 the question was asked..."How much do you want this job?" Not knowing that my response was considerably more than they were paying for co-pilots at that time ($165 a month), my offer was: "Room and board for the first year." They wouldn't go that high, but that was alright.

Twenty years later, when it became my great good fortune to belt my butt into the left seat of that Convair 880, everything became worthwhile. Like many others who flew that airplane, we would have paid the company for the pleasure.

This was the pilot's DREAM. Perfect in every respect. Going from a 707 to the Convair was like climbing out of a truck and into a sports car.

If we had had twenty of these during World War 11, with a few fifties mounted in the nose, we could have wiped out the entire German Air Force over a long weekend.

But, what if anything does this have to do with this topic? Maybe nothing. But can you imagine United, OR any airline today having their entire pilot group walking around with never ending smiles from the shear enjoyment of flying something like that Convair 880?

Yeah, the 880 was fun. I'd have done it for nothing, but if ol' TWA wanted to pay me, that was their problem.


An old guy with a gray moustache and funny ideas :disguise:

 

[MCI transplant]

Thank you, TWAnr, that airplane was the favorite of many.

Just how great was it? Well, an attempt will be made to put this in perspective. During my interview with TWA in 1945 the question was asked..."How much do you want this job?" Not knowing that my response was considerably more than they were paying for co-pilots at that time ($165 a month), my offer was: "Room and board for the first year." They wouldn't go that high, but that was alright.

Twenty years later, when it became my great good fortune to belt my butt into the left seat of that Convair 880, everything became worthwhile. Like many others who flew that airplane, we would have paid the company for the pleasure.

This was the pilot's DREAM. Perfect in every respect. Going from a 707 to the Convair was like climbing out of a truck and into a sports car.

If we had had twenty of these during World War 11, with a few fifties mounted in the nose, we could have wiped out the entire German Air Force over a long weekend.

But, what if anything does this have to do with this topic? Maybe nothing. But can you imagine United, OR any airline today having their entire pilot group walking around with never ending smiles from the shear enjoyment of flying something like that Convair 880?

Yeah, the 880 was fun. I'd have done it for nothing, but if ol' TWA wanted to pay me, that was their problem.
An old guy with a gray moustache and funny ideas :disguise:

[post="179221"][/post]​

<_< Like I said! A Hot Rod!!!! But years later I still remmber seeing a few old 880's parked at an old airport in southern Calif. on one of my many trips to that part of the country! You could see them from the road, still proudly wearing the once panted out twin globes! Which at the time were still visable! Was it Bakersfield? Something to do with a company that wanted to convert them to freighters, and went out of business before they could! I was told they have been setting there for years! Still could for all I know!!!!!

 

[mga707]

<_< Like I said! A Hot Rod!!!! But years later I still remmber seeing a few old 880's parked at an old airport in southern Calif. on one of my many trips to that part of the country! You could see them from the road, still proudly wearing the once panted out twin globes! Which at the time were still visable! Was it Bakersfield? Something to do with a company that wanted to convert them to freighters, and went out of business before they could! I was told they have been setting there for years! Still could for all I know!!!!!

[post="179243"][/post]​

No, the airport was (is?) Mojave, some 50 miles SE of BFL. The line-up of 880s, and one sole 990, was there for many, many years. Could still be a few left, although I believe they have all finally been broken up.
During the recent SpaceShip One flight (Bert Rutan's amazing space plane), which took place out of said airport, I was looking in the background of the video footage to see if I could spot any of the 880s!