AA the new Eastern?

[Overspeed]

There is a certain amount of machismo associated with the thinking of just let it go under. But, anyone who has ever experienced actually starting over will tell you that if you are over 50 you can forget getting anywhere on another airlines seniority list by starting over. Really to start over successfully at another airline and build years to a top pay scale you should have already been hired no later than age 35 at the new carrier.

So, there is the rub if AA goes under either in this BK or the next most of the employees now wearing the AA uniform will not be getting much of anything in the form of future airline jobs or salary. If AA goes out most can forget about a new job within the industry. You might as well go work your final years before retirement age at the local garden center at least you will be home every night (including pilots who work as insurance agents or investment brokers).

I bet if you were to be able to see what the outcome of all the fine people in Eastern uniforms turned out to be it would truly be a trail of tears away from the airline industry.

The best hope for AA (and for that matter US) is to get together and make this work. Because if things go to far no one can predict with any certainty how all this is going to work out. Right now in the next few months things must be worked out. If it does not work out now in the next year or so then everyone will suffer. This is a fact not an opinion. So think about it.

BLS jobs report on worker displacement 2009 - 2011 shows that 35% of people in the transportation industry who lost their jobs ended making at least the same or more as the place they worked. So at least 3 out of 10 will make the wages they made at AA. The bad story is that 46% ended up finding jobs that made >20% less than the job they lost. The BLS data goes against everything the vote no coalition wanted us to believe, that great high paying jobs are waiting for all of us when they 4,000 were cut.

 

[Duke787]

Well for some, but I recall AA hiring guys in their 60s when Pan Am finally went out and scores of guys in their 50s. Less than five years back to top. Sure the low seniority would suck but good seniority isnt much good when the pay sucks.

There would be life after AA should AA ever go belly up. Sure the 50 and over guys will have to ride it out but the few 35 and under guys should bolt, not to another airline, but to another industry.

The big diiference between the early 90s when Pan Am and Eastern went out of business and now is that, all the airlines did all there own maintenance and all the airlines were expanding, not like today where all the airlines are running lean operations and outsorcing their OH maintenance, and the pilots are flying more hours and the schedules are more efficeint because of new contracts, and pilots are staying to 65. Not to mention we are still recovering from the worst recession sense 1929, with high fuel prices, and ever expanding compition from low cost carriers like UAL and Delta.

You forgot the the 35-50 demographic, where I'm sure a grand majority of us are at. I seem to remember you advocated to vote NO in 2010, because of your grand theory about how things should work. I think it is wrong for the union leadership of any union to promise unatainable goals like restore and more. By voting NO in 2010 we are all out over $20k in cash alone. No telling how much each pilot will lose individually by their grand theory.

I wish things worked like you and the pilots union leadership think they should work.

 

[Super FLUF]

I wish things worked like you and the pilots union leadership think they should work.

So rather than just throw out really catchy soundbites, why don't you tell us what we are doing wrong, and what strategy we should be following.

I suppose we should just be good little soldiers and vote yes "because that's just the way this bankruptcy thing works", right? Just bend over, spread our cheeks, and grease up so ToHo and the boys can cash out to the tune of hundreds of millions with zero resistance.

"Mr. Horton and his management team stand to receive somewhere between $300 million and $600 million if he can make it through bankruptcy court without merging first with a rival like US Airways."

source: http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/07/09/american-and-us-airways-dance-around-a-merger/

Sorry, but some of you make really pathetic union members. Why even be a member if you aren't even going to fight for your profession?

 

[texflyer]

So rather than just throw out really catchy soundbites, why don't you tell us what we are doing wrong, and what strategy we should be following.

I suppose we should just be good little soldiers and vote yes "because that's just the way this bankruptcy thing works", right? Just bend over, spread our cheeks, and grease up so ToHo and the boys can cash out to the tune of hundreds of millions with zero resistance.

"Mr. Horton and his management team stand to receive somewhere between $300 million and $600 million if he can make it through bankruptcy court without merging first with a rival like US Airways."

source: http://dealbook.nyti...round-a-merger/

Sorry, but some of you make really pathetic union members. Why even be a member if you aren't even going to fight for your profession?

Well..........at one the time, the airilne you work for was availible for less than a billion dollars, just ripe for buying and controlling your own future, instead of worrying about management getting a big payout..........................................just saying.

 

[777 / 767 / 757 Love]

The younger you are the easier it is, we've had several leave already.

Good, let them leave......they get it. They decided they don't like their job or company and rather than placing other people's livelihoods at risk they chose to leave. That is a mature response, one they should be commended for.

Course, back in the day most joined the airforce or navy to become a pilot becuase they wanted to fly, not because they wanted to make a lot of money.

Chase the money, you will always be disappointed, chase a love, and you will always be happy. Above all else, learn to manage expectations or learn to manage disappointment.

Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757

 

[Duke787]

So rather than just throw out really catchy soundbites, why don't you tell us what we are doing wrong, and what strategy we should be following.

I suppose we should just be good little soldiers and vote yes "because that's just the way this bankruptcy thing works", right? Just bend over, spread our cheeks, and grease up so ToHo and the boys can cash out to the tune of hundreds of millions with zero resistance.

"Mr. Horton and his management team stand to receive somewhere between $300 million and $600 million if he can make it through bankruptcy court without merging first with a rival like US Airways."

source: http://dealbook.nyti...round-a-merger/

Sorry, but some of you make really pathetic union members. Why even be a member if you aren't even going to fight for your profession?

There is union strong and union stupid, when you have the bankruptcy laws and court stacked against you (2012), you take what you can get, when the economy is week and there has been YEARS of layoffs and concessions(2010), you take what you can get, when the economy is strong and the union has the power (early 2001) you get what you deserve or else you go on strike.

It scares me to have union members that believe rhetoric, rather then being aware of the situation they are in.

 

[Duke787]

Nobody wants AA to "go under".

The possibility of AA liquidating under Ch. 7 with Doug Parker waiting in the wings is virtually zero.

You are putting a lot faith in Doug Parker, but did you notice there is not labor peace at USair? And you know how the APA is toward other pilot groups (TWA) and how USair pilots are to America West pilots. I don't see a lot of happiness anytime soon and until then, could be years you live under the imposed contract, and how many guys will leave AA to go do something else? Not many I bet, and there will THOUSANDS of applicants to take there spot.

 

[Duke787]

I can assume from your quote here you have not worked anywhere else but here at the bend over airline for the TWU. Eastern people did not look at Lorenzo as a savior Far from it he was hated and is by most to this day. When you get money and perks taken away yr after yr there comes a point you must stand up for what you believe. "YES" we had to start over at the bottom of the seniority list at other carriers but we like the NWA mechanics can hold our heads high unlike the memebers of the TWU who have bent over each time AA came a calling. I hope you enjoy the cuts again from your pay check. I bet you were a "YES" voter as well.

Did you take the early out?

 

[Duke787]

Your right it is serious here but NO WAY can it be compared to Eastern. The mechanics and other employees of EAL had a fight in them that will never be here at AA. You don't even have a clue as to what it means to fight for your job.
None of the unions here at AA has 1/10th the fight the unions at Eastern had.

"YES" they are gone but most would do it again knowing what was going to happen. Just like the NWA mechanics did when they walked. They had enough of the companies threats and give backs, and made a decision to fight. NWA had a history of that long before AMFA got there. I am talking when IAM was in power in old days.

That is very true statement, the NWA had no choice and feel made a poor choice walking out when they knew the replacements were trained, now those replacment workers are working for Delta, and AMFA settled the strike and the settlement they got was not great.

 

[Super FLUF]

Duke, you live in a world of FEAR of what MIGHT happen.

That is why you fail.

If the US were full of Duke's in 1776, we would still be singing God Save the Queen here in the British Commonwealth of America.

 

[Duke787]

Duke, you live in a world of FEAR of what MIGHT happen.

That is why you fail.

If the US were full of Duke's in 1776, we would still be singing God Save the Queen here in the British Commonwealth of America.

This is why you have no creditablity, you have the FREEDOM to look for another job.

I voted NO in 2003 and 2012, in 2003 I thought that was outragious and in 2012, the LBO wasn't much different from the term sheet for line mechs. We weren't getting the 11% matching or the 13% equity, we didn't even get full pay for a sick day. We'll will see what you get in a couple of years, then we'll see who was right.

good luck

 

[jimntx]

This is why you have no creditablity, you have the FREEDOM to look for another job.

And, since the 13th Amendment to the Constitution has not been abolished, so do you. I am 67 and I'm on my 5th career. Will you like the next job as much as this one? More than likely, yes. Will you make as much money? Maybe, maybe not. Will you have the same seniority as you have at American? Definitely not, but ask yourself...what has my vaunted seniority gotten me to date?

 

[jimntx]

Nobody wants AA to "go under".

The possibility of AA liquidating under Ch. 7 with Doug Parker waiting in the wings is virtually zero.

I wouldn't bet the rent money on this assumption. If the UCC decides to petition the court to convert the Ch.11 to a Ch.7 (a remote, but real possibility), it will be because they realize that AMR pieces are worth more than the AMR whole right now--which they are. AMR broken up and sold to the highest bidders is worth a lot more than the company and the employees as a complete package.

Doug Parker will be just another bozo on the bus going to the yard sale. Delta would pay a handsome sum for the MIA and DFW operations--particularly the South American routes, and the airplanes that go with them. UA and LCC will be battling over the Asian routes and airplanes. (I doubt that Doug would be interested in much else we have. He can't collect anymore DCA slots. ) But, the Asian routes and the a/c to fly them would be a very real asset for him to obtain. WN would probably go after DCA and LGA slots, and some of the short haul International (now that their f/as have voted for this)--like MIA (which they would move to FLL or MCO) to upper Caribbean.

Lovely routes, fairly new a/c (777 and 737), and no pesky disillusioned, angry employees to deal with. What a deal!

 

[Frank Szabo]

This is why you have no creditablity, you have the FREEDOM to look for another job.

I voted NO in 2003 and 2012, in 2003 I thought that was outragious and in 2012, the LBO wasn't much different from the term sheet for line mechs. We weren't getting the 11% matching or the 13% equity, we didn't even get full pay for a sick day. We'll will see what you get in a couple of years, then we'll see who was right.

good luck

Who gives a damn who is "right"? One can be "right" and out on the street, also.

There is life after Horton's little airline and airplanes aren't the only thing a mechanic with tools can work on. You'll be much better off when you realize that and act accordingly.

Start looking - there's tons of jobs out there but you have to make the first step. Find another job and walk away from these wankers.

 

[Duke787]

Who gives a damn who is "right"? One can be "right" and out on the street, also.

There is life after Horton's little airline and airplanes aren't the only thing a mechanic with tools can work on. You'll be much better off when you realize that and act accordingly.

Start looking - there's tons of jobs out there but you have to make the first step. Find another job and walk away from these wankers.

I'm not the one whining, when I feel as though I don't want to work at AA I will move on, you want to direct your comment toward super fluff.