AA the new Eastern?

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Since I have seen some of the people who have posted here in some of the other subjects I can only assume that some are from MTC and some maybe F/A. All three unions at Eastern stuck together. They did not sit back and live vicariously through another group while they fought the fight. Talking about what the pilots are doing or not doing is not for them to discuss. Why don't you look in the mirror, ask what can I do to support them, how can I fight back instead of just sitting on the sidelines. It seems as they are using the rules set by the company against itself. (just a guess) In your work assignment there are those same rules. Don't compare AA to Eastern the men/woman of Eastern were a Family. They had one anothers back when it came to the fight. AA will never even come close so DON'T Insult the Eastern employees who fought back against corporate GREED. Do your job and let the chips fall as they will.

 

[777 / 767 / 757 Love]

Although Eastern's employees saw Lorenzo at the time as a savior, he would prove to be anything but a hero to the employees by the end of the decade.

From the feeling I get from the pilots is that they're hoping that Parker will give them a better contract then what Horton gave them.


http://en.wikipedia....astern_Airlines

Which is why I hope that the US merger goes thru, so when all of the EXPs leave do to awful service, at least we can laugh at the piss poor contract and the second trip to BK the consolidated airline must take.

Assuming one is not a 14 year old child, anyone with half a brain can see that as bad as AA management has been, US has no better track record. To say otherwise is to ignore the US employees who themselves tell AA their crazy if they think the grass is any greener.

Here is the cold facts: no matter what, even if AA goes Chapter 7, Horton and other senior executives will not be seen as failures by their colleagues and they will gind other positions in corporate America. The other employees? Perhaps the mechanics can transfer their skills to other industries, as can baggage handlers and other ground crew. Pilots? FAs? They will have to change careers.

So, that is the cold truth, believe anything else you want, doesn't make it true.

Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757

 

[777 / 767 / 757 Love]

Since I have seen some of the people who have posted here in some of the other subjects I can only assume that some are from MTC and some maybe F/A. All three unions at Eastern stuck together. They did not sit back and live vicariously through another group while they fought the fight. Talking about what the pilots are doing or not doing is not for them to discuss. Why don't you look in the mirror, ask what can I do to support them, how can I fight back instead of just sitting on the sidelines. It seems as they are using the rules set by the company against itself. (just a guess) In your work assignment there are those same rules. Don't compare AA to Eastern the men/woman of Eastern were a Family. They had one anothers back when it came to the fight. AA will never even come close so DON'T Insult the Eastern employees who fought back against corporate GREED. Do your job and let the chips fall as they will.

They were a family, and they stuck together......and that got them put on the streets and the lucky ones at the bottom of other seniority lists.

Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

They were a family, and they stuck together......and that got them put on the streets and the lucky ones at the bottom of other seniority lists.

Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757

I can assume from your quote here you have not worked anywhere else but here at the bend over airline for the TWU. Eastern people did not look at Lorenzo as a savior Far from it he was hated and is by most to this day. When you get money and perks taken away yr after yr there comes a point you must stand up for what you believe. "YES" we had to start over at the bottom of the seniority list at other carriers but we like the NWA mechanics can hold our heads high unlike the memebers of the TWU who have bent over each time AA came a calling. I hope you enjoy the cuts again from your pay check. I bet you were a "YES" voter as well.

 

[WorldTraveler]

It all comes down to economics.... people might have strong values and convictions but very few people will act on those convictions at the expense of their personal financail interests.
The reason why many AA people are willing to act now is because the company is forcing them to become some of the lowest paid in the industry, or if they aren't now, they will be by the time they have the expectation of pay raises. For many it is no longer worth putting their efforts into AA and, given that they have seen this day coming for a long time, they are ready to make changes to protect their interests and have found other things they can do to make money.

AA's difficulty comes in having to come back for a round 2 after not successfully restructuring fully almost 10 years ago. Given that AA has key assets, many AA employees can find work elsewhere at better labor rates and for them it makes sense to either receive industry average wages or take their services elsewhere including outside the industry.

 

[mistified]

AA the new Eastern??
Possible yes. But with 5 billion in the bank highly unlikely.
This isn't your Grand Daddys bankruptcy.
It's the new generation bankruptcy!

mistified

 

[AirLUVer]

AA's difficulty comes in having to come back for a round 2 after not successfully restructuring fully almost 10 years ago. Given that AA has key assets, many AA employees can find work elsewhere at better labor rates and for them it makes sense to either receive industry average wages or take their services elsewhere including outside the industry.

AA's Difficulty is in that it didn't file bankruptcy 10 years ago to FULLY restructure 9 years ago, and then watching USAir go through 2 bankruptcies, Northwest and Delta each filing once, and UAL getting two recessionary contracts during their exceedingly long bankruptcy.

 

[MCI transplant]

AA the new Eastern??
Possible yes. But with 5 billion in the bank highly unlikely.
This isn't your Grand Daddys bankruptcy.
It's the new generation bankruptcy!

mistified

With 5 billion $$$ in the bank, AA makes one hell of a target! There are peoplle out there that would love to get their hands on that kind of money! And with AA in BK, it's the most venerable time for AA.----- Lorenzo, and Icahn, are not dead yet! And if not them, there are others who might be temped!-------- This story is far from been over people!

 

[WorldTraveler]

the cash AA has on hand is borrowed and backed by assets...the value might decrease some but AA either has to repay the debt or dispose of the assets.
The creditors are not goimg to allow AA's value to be eroded over years. If AA cannot be turned around, they will act to maximize recovery now.

 

[johnny kat]

There is a certain amount of machismo associated with the thinking of just let it go under. But, anyone who has ever experienced actually starting over will tell you that if you are over 50 you can forget getting anywhere on another airlines seniority list by starting over. Really to start over successfully at another airline and build years to a top pay scale you should have already been hired no later than age 35 at the new carrier.

So, there is the rub if AA goes under either in this BK or the next most of the employees now wearing the AA uniform will not be getting much of anything in the form of future airline jobs or salary. If AA goes out most can forget about a new job within the industry. You might as well go work your final years before retirement age at the local garden center at least you will be home every night (including pilots who work as insurance agents or investment brokers).

I bet if you were to be able to see what the outcome of all the fine people in Eastern uniforms turned out to be it would truly be a trail of tears away from the airline industry.

The best hope for AA (and for that matter US) is to get together and make this work. Because if things go to far no one can predict with any certainty how all this is going to work out. Right now in the next few months things must be worked out. If it does not work out now in the next year or so then everyone will suffer. This is a fact not an opinion. So think about it.

 

[Super FLUF]

There is a certain amount of machismo associated with the thinking of just let it go under.

Nobody wants AA to "go under".

The possibility of AA liquidating under Ch. 7 with Doug Parker waiting in the wings is virtually zero.

 

[MCI transplant]

the cash AA has on hand is borrowed and backed by assets...the value might decrease some but AA either has to repay the debt or dispose of the assets.
The creditors are not goimg to allow AA's value to be eroded over years. If AA cannot be turned around, they will act to maximize recovery now.

The same could be said about Eastern, and TWA, at the time.----- With assets like that, it's like sharks smelling blood in the water! "Borrowed" money spends just as easily as any other cash!

 

[Bob Owens]

There is a certain amount of machismo associated with the thinking of just let it go under. But, anyone who has ever experienced actually starting over will tell you that if you are over 50 you can forget getting anywhere on another airlines seniority list by starting over. Really to start over successfully at another airline and build years to a top pay scale you should have already been hired no later than age 35 at the new carrier.

So, there is the rub if AA goes under either in this BK or the next most of the employees now wearing the AA uniform will not be getting much of anything in the form of future airline jobs or salary. If AA goes out most can forget about a new job within the industry. You might as well go work your final years before retirement age at the local garden center at least you will be home every night (including pilots who work as insurance agents or investment brokers).

I bet if you were to be able to see what the outcome of all the fine people in Eastern uniforms turned out to be it would truly be a trail of tears away from the airline industry.

Well for some, but I recall AA hiring guys in their 60s when Pan Am finally went out and scores of guys in their 50s. Less than five years back to top. Sure the low seniority would suck but good seniority isnt much good when the pay sucks.

There would be life after AA should AA ever go belly up. Sure the 50 and over guys will have to ride it out but the few 35 and under guys should bolt, not to another airline, but to another industry.

 

[bigjets]

Well for some, but I recall AA hiring guys in their 60s when Pan Am finally went out and scores of guys in their 50s. Less than five years back to top. Sure the low seniority would suck but good seniority isnt much good when the pay sucks.

There would be life after AA should AA ever go belly up. Sure the 50 and over guys will have to ride it out but the few 35 and under guys should bolt, not to another airline, but to another industry.

Because it's just that easy :huh:

 

[Bob Owens]

Because it's just that easy :huh:

The younger you are the easier it is, we've had several leave already.