AA Management Bonuses - Despite More Losses

[Bear96]

You're comparing apples to oranges here. I think many \ of would agree to do it if our compensation was on the level theirs is. There's a difference between taking half of $600,000 vs. half of what we make. Wouldn't you say?

Maybe I missed it, but what is stopping you from getting qualified and applying for those positions which offer the compensation level you desire?

Certainly it couldn't have been a surprise to you to find that the F/A job doesn't pay $600K/yr?

 

[Ch. 12]

These problems are not unique to corporate America..... some of Bush's problems are related to his view of his Imperial Presidency as well as the "bubble" on a recent cover of Newsweek. I believe Nixon's downfall was a result of a similar situation.

.

...it's called "corruption" and our current government endorses and promotes it. There is no hope for corporate america given the kind of leadership that is out there right now. Maybe in three years...

 

[AirLUVer]

Yes, as previously posted, I would agree the figures do not seem to fit AA very well.

I also would be interested in how some of this information is compiled. I only have one semester of statistics, but I am aware of the different ways information can be presented. But the general trend they illustrate cannot be denied.

The issue here is not just the dollar amount of the executive pay, but the concept of the "Imperial CEO", who is so far above the actual producers of his company's product or service. You know, the Marie Antoinette school of management. Along with the problems of an "imperial" situation, there is the matter of isolation. Some of it is brought about by the executive's view of himself, but much of it is caused and exacerbated by his minions. This can be seen at lower levels, as well, just not as dramatically.

I should add here that accusations of being an Imperial CEO would be better aimed at Carty than Arpey. However, the damage done to this company by Carty and the board will linger on for years. Our BOD is still the same bunch of cronies and tokens as before. Many many companies are the same. Hopeful has commented here in that area.

These problems are not unique to corporate America..... some of Bush's problems are related to his view of his Imperial Presidency as well as the "bubble" on a recent cover of Newsweek. I believe Nixon's downfall was a result of a similar situation.

.

Here is a link to Arpey's profile from Forbes


Forbes profile of Gerard Arpey

The majority of the top ten CEO's including the number 1 (CEO of Yahoo) have most of their earning via stock options or gains in the stock market on their options. From the feeling the number 2 guy actually own's his company. Most of the others are either pharmaceuticals/medical or insurance. I think maybe if they took some nice hits to their salaries, maybe we wouldn't have these continual increases to the employee portion of the copay's every year.

 

[Skymess]

Maybe I missed it, but what is stopping you from getting qualified and applying for those positions which offer the compensation level you desire?

Certainly it couldn't have been a surprise to you to find that the F/A job doesn't pay $600K/yr?

Whatever, Bear. YOU'RE taking the ball and running the wrong way with it. Par for your course. You do it in every thread.

Just because I am not a CEO doesn't mean I can't comment about how much they shouldn't make. Yes, I chose to be a flight attendant. I also have one masters degree and most of another one completed. Does that make me a better flight attendant? No. Could I have used my degrees to parlay my way into a management position? Absolutely. Are there intelligent people I work with daily who don't have any higher education degrees who could probably outthink half, or more, of our current management team? Yes.

Education or profession doesn't make someone a better person.

 

[Bear96]

Yes, I chose to be a flight attendant.

Then, you also chose to make a flight attendant salary.

Education or profession doesn't make someone a better person.

Never said it did. But if that person leverages their education to its maximum advantage in certain professions, it does make that someone better paid.

 

[nbmcg01]

Then, you also chose to make a flight attendant salary.
Never said it did. But if that person leverages their education to its maximum advantage in certain professions, it does make that someone better paid.

It also depends on how well you play golf or tennis. Doesn't hurt to have "good old boy" connections either. Very few in positions of power have earned their way. Once again, "The Peter Principle". lol

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Education or profession doesn't make someone a better person.

Someone, I can't remember who,(I think it was Churchill) said, "The principle value of education is the ability to recognize rubbish when one hears it."

 

[Skymess]

QUOTE(Skymess @ Dec 30 2005, 07:46 PM)

Yes, I chose to be a flight attendant.

Bear Then, you also chose to make a flight attendant salary.

My salary and my profession doesn't limit my ability to comment on how well or how poorly the CEO of my company is performing.



QUOTE skymess
Education or profession doesn't make someone a better person.


Bear Never said it did. But if that person leverages their education to its maximum advantage in certain professions, it does make that someone better paid.

So if they are better paid they are above critique? Is that what you are saying? Last I knew I was in America and worked for American. If I feel like commenting about anyone's job performance I can do so with impunity. And I will. Especially if my hardship is paving someone's way with gold bricks.

 

[Bear96]

So if they are better paid they are above critique? Is that what you are saying?

Er, when and where did I say or suggest that? :huh: Quotes please!

Last I knew I was in America and worked for American. If I feel like commenting about anyone's job performance I can do so with impunity. And I will.

Er, when did I suggest you couldn't?

You certainly have every right to voice your opinion. Likewise, I have every right to voice my opinion about your opinion. Ain't America great?

Especially if my hardship is paving someone's way with gold bricks.

Ah, maybe this is the point at which we begin to talk past each other.

You seem to think the solution is to play the victim, moan about your "hardship" and lot in life, blame someone else, and point to others, stomp your foot, and whine, "If he gets a new expensive toy, I want one too!" without doing the work required to get that new toy on your own.

My solution was to get off my a&& and do the work required to change my situation.

Life is full of choices. Many of them hard, but choices nonetheless.

It also depends on how well you play golf or tennis. Doesn't hurt to have "good old boy" connections either.

Very true. As with much else in life, connections and social interaction help. At least they can't hurt.

Very few in positions of power have earned their way. Once again, "The Peter Principle". lol

This, I disagree with. While it is true that SOME people in power haven't truly "earned" it, there are plenty of people who do very, very well solely as a result of their brains and hard work.

 

[TWU informer]

I will voice my opinion.

MANAGEMENT BONUSES of any kind given while employees are under concession agreements is patently wrong period.

Everyone can state their opinions and argue all they want, but this fact will never change no matter what else may be presented.

 

[MCI transplant]

I will voice my opinion.

MANAGEMENT BONUSES of any kind given while employees are under concession agreements is patently wrong period.

<_< On this one Brother, I totally agee!!!

 

[Wretched Wrench]

MANAGEMENT BONUSES of any kind given while employees are under concession agreements is patently wrong period.

It must not be wrong, because they are doing it. Let market forces rule!

There is no right and wrong, only what works and what doesn't work.

.

 

[Hopeful]

It must not be wrong, because they are doing it. Let market forces rule!

There is no right and wrong, only what works and what doesn't work.

.

Again!

In the cases of obsecene and greedy CEO compensation, market forces are determined by greedy corporate bigwigs on a corporation's board of directors. These same people sitting on these boards are also getting their obscene compensation packages by other greedy corporate bigwigs on a corporation's board of directors. The cycle goes on and on and on.
So spare me the "let the market dictate how CEO's get paid."

I am glad to see the greedy CEOs getting theirs in the courts. TYCO, ENRON, etc!

I guess the market dictated that TYCO chairman Koslowski was perfectly in his market right to throw a $1 million dollar birthday bash for his wife and a market cost $6000.00 shower curtain USING TYCO MONEY. He and two partners bilked TYCO out of $600 million dollars using corporate accounts and skimming profits. The same corporate greedy bigwigs who sit on the board did nothing. They didn't know!

THEY DIDN'T CARE BECAUSE THEY ALL GET THEIRS!

 

[upsilon]

Many of you complainers about 'overpaid' management fail to differentiate between a performance bonus (you call it 'greed') and the relatively (to the entire corporate world) rare (but highly publicized) instances of pure management thievery.

Whether it is from the inside (ala Enron, Tyco, Adelphia, etc) or from the outside (like Willie Sutton, John Gotti, etc), when the thieves are caught and convicted, they Go To Jail!

I agree that some airline management bonus plans are so untimely and ill-conceived (ala AA [Carty] and DL) that they border on stupidity. Both resulted in loss of job by the CEO; and as an AA stockholder [and 3MM AAdvtgFF], I wanted the change and am pleased with the result.

IMO, AA under Arpey is doing most of what is right for the employees, customers and owners. The WA matter [DALvDFW] is questionable. But I will bet he will not waste any significant money making a decision.

Best Wishes for the New Year to AA and all its employees.

 

[TWU informer]

Many of you complainers about 'overpaid' management fail to differentiate between a performance bonus (you call it 'greed') and the relatively (to the entire corporate world) rare (but highly publicized) instances of pure management thievery.

Whether it is from the inside (ala Enron, Tyco, Adelphia, etc) or from the outside (like Willie Sutton, John Gotti, etc), when the thieves are caught and convicted, they Go To Jail!

I agree that some airline management bonus plans are so untimely and ill-conceived (ala AA [Carty] and DL) that they border on stupidity. Both resulted in loss of job by the CEO; and as an AA stockholder [and 3MM AAdvtgFF], I wanted the change and am pleased with the result.

IMO, AA under Arpey is doing most of what is right for the employees, customers and owners. The WA matter [DALvDFW] is questionable. But I will bet he will not waste any significant money making a decision.

Best Wishes for the New Year to AA and all its employees.

I know the difference of which you speak,

and the fact still remains...

...NO MANAGEMENT BONUS is acceptable when employees are working under "save the company concessions". Period