AA Management Bonuses - Despite More Losses

[DFWFSC]

This is more or lees a question for former moderator..Are current employees working in capacity planning or RM under an oath of sorts restricting what they can discuss regarding what AA is doing or planning to do with new routes or cities,etc...I've noticed on other airline related forums there are a few folks, who claim they are not AA employees, post every move AA is or will make well before AA makes it public or before it's even announced to employees or loaded in sabre. They know the yield,loadfactor,cargo account info, etc..Is all this info common knowledge for anybody digging around or is it leaked out?? No big deal, im just curious.

 

[limit]

What some of you do not seem to be to able see is the transparency of your arguments.
You actually took your job description and paraded it into a business plan.
Most of us have absolutely no problem whatsoever, with people receiving a bonus if they came up with something really innovative to help the company (a frequent flyer program will be an example).
What we are seeing instead, is a claim for compensation because you did your job well, instead of just doing your job.

Should'nt you be striving to do your job better every day just like every one else should?

I invite you to post any parts of the business plan you contributed to this company and to show us how this went above and beyond the call of duty, how it is not part of your job description or that is was something another airline has not done for years.


Connected1:
"But let's not pretend that the performance unit plans are discretionary payouts that steal out of one person's paycheck to pay another."

Which of the following would have a greater impact to the market conditions that would allow management to collect their performance incentive?

1. Streamlining the operation at the Chicago hub. (Fly like SW has done for decades) or some other part of your plan.

2.Reducing employee pay and benefits.

 

[eolesen]

DFWFSC and Limit's comments are tied together -- L5 on up are under blanket non-disclosures, so I really can't comment on a lot of what I do to earn my keep every year. What I can say is that my group of employees regularly comes up with ways of saving us from spending on the order of $1M annually with companies like EDS and Sabre.

Unfortunately, non-compete clauses don't exist unless you're under contract (L8 and above), so we're free to take that knowledge anywhere willing to pay them more than they're making at AMR (which is pretty much every corporation in America).

 

[Wretched Wrench]

...we're free to take that knowledge anywhere willing to pay them more than they're making at AMR (which is pretty much every corporation in America).

That, of course, begs the question, "So, why are any of them working here?"

 

[TWU informer]

That, of course, begs the question, "So, why are any of them working here?"

Because the hidden bonuses and stock options are more than others offer!

They talk about their ideas saving millions, so they get should get more in bonuses.

Hell, we used to have a ideAAs in action program that compensated us quite well for ideas, now there is nothing for your ideas. I profited substantially from the old suggestion program and the ideAAs in action program. I think we bought a 757 and a 777 with the money employees saved via these programs. Now, the only program is a pajama party and "you're lucky ot have a job" brother.

I would bet the honkers of "money saving ideas" makes management worth the bonus, that the grunts on the floor can come up with more "money saving ideas" than a whole room full of overpaid management gurus. That is why the "Pull toghether, win together" program includes the grunts to begin with.

Of course, there is no management CUT IN PAY when they dream up the failed "Value Pricing Plan", "More Room Throughout Coach", or other Bullshit schemes like buying AirCal, Reno Air, or TWA that have cost AA millions not saved money! For every one management million dollar idea, there seems to be four that cost more than a million.

I have an idea that would save a helluva alot of money next year, but my lack of compensation, and paid time off, along with my perosonal "confidential agreement" will prevent me from disclosing this idea to anyone in management that could actually implement the idea.

 

[limit]

DFWFSC and Limit's comments are tied together -- L5 on up are under blanket non-disclosures, so I really can't comment on a lot of what I do to earn my keep every year. What I can say is that my group of employees regularly comes up with ways of saving us from spending on the order of $1M annually with companies like EDS and Sabre.

Bravo! I can do no more than thank all the employees in your department.
If you wrote this in response to my invitation comment, forgive me, but I fail to see why cost cutting measures, especially finding ways to reduce vendor expenses is not part of everybody’s job description.
Am I wrong?
Your answer also suggests that all the employees in your department are receiving this type of compensation.
Are all the employees in your department middle or senior management?
If not how are they compensated?
If they do not receive these bonuses why is this?
Did they contribute less to the process?
Or did they come up with the idea and will not get a bonus because they are not at a certain level or above?
The latter is a fact at my department.
As a matter of fact I was present at a meeting where a manager stated:
“I want to thank all of you guys, for the job that you did, especially since this will look really good on me at the end of the year, if you know what I mean".
There was a big smirk on his face.
The atta boy was welcome.
It was nice to hear that they were appreciated.
No big deal. Just doing their job, you know.
It would be nice if the manager's boss gave him an atta boy, along with the nice bonus of course.
Sorry I don’t think you guys have a leg to stand on.
I find your point and argument rather weak.

 

[eolesen]

Well, I guess there's no point bothering to try and justify anything management does, since it's automatically evil, corrupt, and a slap in the face to the working man.

 

[limit]

Well, I guess there's no point bothering to try and justify anything management does, since it's automatically evil, corrupt, and a slap in the face to the working man.

I never wrote anything like that.
I consider management a vital and necessary part of any company.
I only chastised the idea of having anyone’s compensation based on him performing well, at the very job he was hired to do.
If you are not doing your job well enough, you should be fired.
If you do it well, you should continue collecting a pay check.
But then again, why bother trying to convince a person as unreasonable as I am, right?

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Well, I guess there's no point bothering to try and justify anything management does, since it's automatically evil, corrupt, and a slap in the face to the working man.

Nobody says those things, and you know it. Stop trying to put your words in the mouths of others to trivialize them.

 

[FWAAA]

Like it or not, the shareholders are more than happy to compensate the management for keeping the company out of bankruptcy and thus preserving the common stock, now valued at more than 17 times its early-2003 lows of $1.25/sh.

Too bad the employees didn't see the potential goldmine; 10,000 shares could be purchased in March 2003 for less than $20k (as little as $13k, including commissions) and would now be worth over $220k - more than enough to pay off most Tulsa-area mortgages and still have tens of thousands of dollars leftover.

Why didn't the company give all of us several thousand options like it did for certain managers?

Dunno - might as well ask why the company didn't buy you a pony as well.

So some managers may receive a few million dollars in aggregate variable compensation dependent on the stock price (and, as it turns out, might not receive anything). BFD.

Mainline unit revenue up over 12% in the third quarter year over year, a higher percentage gain than any other US-based major. Last week, AA said that fourth quarter mainline unit revenue may be up over 14%+ year over year. If so, those responsible deserve bonuses, IMO. They have earned them.

 

[Bob Owens]

FWAAA' date='Dec 27 2005, 09:30 AM' post='335900']
Like it or not, the shareholders are more than happy to compensate the management for keeping the company out of bankruptcy and thus preserving the common stock, now valued at more than 17 times its early-2003 lows of $1.25/sh.

You mean when they were feigning BK? How about the fact that its still less 20% of its one time high?

This shareholder is not happy with the way a few at the top decide to reward themselves, more than likely a majority of the shareholders feel the same way.

Too bad the employees didn't see the potential goldmine; 10,000 shares could be purchased in March 2003 for less than $20k (as little as $13k, including commissions) and would now be worth over $220k - more than enough to pay off most Tulsa-area mortgages and still have tens of thousands of dollars leftover.

Thats assuming that those shares were available. I believe that you have also stated that we could have bought the company back then, thats assumining that the majority of the holders of AMR were willing to sell at $1.25/share.

Why didn't the company give all of us several thousand options like it did for certain managers?

Dunno - might as well ask why the company didn't buy you a pony as well.



So some managers may receive a few million dollars in aggregate variable compensation dependent on the stock price (and, as it turns out, might not receive anything). BFD.

Mainline unit revenue up over 12% in the third quarter year over year, a higher percentage gain than any other US-based major. Last week, AA said that fourth quarter mainline unit revenue may be up over 14%+ year over year. If so, those responsible deserve bonuses, IMO. They have earned them.
[/quote]


They deserve a bonus because we gave up compensation, work more for less and more people decided to fly? Then why dont they take paycuts when the opposite happens?

 

[Hopeful]

Like it or not, the shareholders are more than happy to compensate the management for keeping the company out of bankruptcy and thus preserving the common stock, now valued at more than 17 times its early-2003 lows of $1.25/sh.

Too bad the employees didn't see the potential goldmine; 10,000 shares could be purchased in March 2003 for less than $20k (as little as $13k, including commissions) and would now be worth over $220k - more than enough to pay off most Tulsa-area mortgages and still have tens of thousands of dollars leftover.

Why didn't the company give all of us several thousand options like it did for certain managers?

Dunno - might as well ask why the company didn't buy you a pony as well.

So some managers may receive a few million dollars in aggregate variable compensation dependent on the stock price (and, as it turns out, might not receive anything). BFD.

Mainline unit revenue up over 12% in the third quarter year over year, a higher percentage gain than any other US-based major. Last week, AA said that fourth quarter mainline unit revenue may be up over 14%+ year over year. If so, those responsible deserve bonuses, IMO. They have earned them.

So in the midst of getting raped with paycuts and concessions, how many people here could have forked over $20,000.00 for stock?

I love the pro management cheerleaders here.
Let me ask you a question:

DO YOU REALLY NEED AN MBA TO RUN AN AIRLINE THESE DAYS?

ANY MORON CAN RUN AN AIRLINE. ALL HE/SHE HAS TO DO IS CUT EMPLOYEES PAY AND BENEFITS, HE BECOMES A HERO AND THE STOCK GOES UP.

 

[Connected1]

I only chastised the idea of having anyone’s compensation based on him performing well, at the very job he was hired to do.

Incentive compensation can be a reward when things go well, but it can also be an effective way to hold people accountable as well. If you aren't concerned with holding management accountable, then I'm sure Arpey, et. al. would be happy to take a flat pay increase of 100% instead.

 

[MCI transplant]

Well, I guess there's no point bothering to try and justify anything management does, since it's automatically evil, corrupt, and a slap in the face to the working man.

<_< You know Mr. Former ModerAAtor, I just can't have too much simpathy for this bonus program! In the last five years, I've seen millions of Dollars worth of "old", but servicable tooling just thrown out as trash!You dismantaled one of the best APU shopes in the country! We,(MCI) put in proposals to save millions on 767 warrenty work from Boeing that was outsourced because aa didn't have the tooling to do the work. But we did!!!When it was brought to the attention of those in power in TUL, their answeer was to come to MCI and tear that equipment out!!! Now who's Brother in Law's little deal did we uncover there!?? :down:

 

[limit]

Incentive compensation can be a reward when things go well, but it can also be an effective way to hold people accountable as well. If you aren't concerned with holding management accountable, then I'm sure Arpey, et. al. would be happy to take a flat pay increase of 100% instead.

I would love to see that.
If you agree that if things do not go well he should be fired.

Unlike what you stated I believe this is the only way to keep anyone accountable.
The fact is that the compensation system you champion has historically produced a management corps at AA that has not produced the goods.
You can select a small period of performance in time and prove many a theory.
The truth is that (at least throughout my employement at AA) management has received incentive compensation regardless and has definitely not been held accountable.