AA Down Under and Trans Pac?

[Platinum Steve]

the only on-the ground perspective is from those who think that real estate matters in determining market strength.

You are correct that real estate does not determine market strength, but the inverse is true, too: you can't have market strength without real estate. SW gained their market strength by building their network from secondary airports where gates were plentiful. It allowed them to build and expand across the country, ultimately finding themselves carrying more passengers than any other airline. That doesn't happen without gates for those planes to pull into when they land.

Speaking of gates, you still haven't answered my question, WT. What do you think is the big deal that DL is about to do with LAWA or some other airline or In-N-Out to get more gates to allow them to build out their Southern Gateway to Asia at LAX. You've already told us that DL management says that they're about maxed out with what they have now. You've teased us that something is coming. If you know and can't divulge it, then say that so we stop bugging you. But if you don't know, there's no harm in a little harmless guessing. (I've got a crazy scenario that I'll share, but I don't want to take your thunder. Plus, you're the expert with inside connections. Me going first is really just presumptive of me, and don't want to jump out of my place. You go first and then I'll spill my beans.)

 

[eolesen]

Plus, you're the expert with inside connections.

The guy who has been out of the industry for 8 years and living outside the country is the guy with inside connections?

He doesn't know what's going on until the press releases are issued. Period.

That's why I don't bother reading or responding to him anymore.

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, Steve, if real estate was the issue, then DL would have never been able to achieve what it did at JFK.

AA had the real estate but DL managed to grow. not sure of the gate count now, but AA has had a better gate position at JFK than DL for years.

and, E, for someone who doesn't bother to respond, you sure can't control yourself and refrain from throwing one more swing... probably because you have been worked up over AA's position to Asia and continental Europe for years - which I have highlighted in spite of your shrill noise.

AA is no better off to/from Asia than it was years ago. and there is nothing to say anything will change. or that other carriers are willing to walk away and let AA grow its presence to Asia in competitive markets.
'
some people keep desperately hoping that DL and UA will run out of gates and AA will be free to expand with no competition - given that AA like WN clearly can't succeed where other carriers challenge them, it is clearly a Texan infection that is swarming thru the brain cells of the AA fankids here.

DL and UA will both find gates to remain fully competitive with anything AA does.

when that changes, let me know.

For the summer, AA will be a worse position on Asia/Pacific flying relative to DL and UA than they have ever been.

 

[jcw]

Interesting that AA has had a 20% increase in market share with mgnt saying its profitable and one DL cheerleader says AA is no better off - the facts are not supporting his storyline - no one is saying AA is going to be #1 any time soon - it's once again a double standard

Steve their is no way to debate - it's heads DL wins or tails DL wins there is no way another airline can win at anything

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

The guy who has been out of the industry for 8 years ...........
 

 
Just round it up to a decade.

 

[Kev3188]

Well it has "spanned" two of them...

 

[WorldTraveler]

when people repeatedly post the same wrong statistics and then expect me to believe they know what they are talking about, it is no surprise they are marginalized.

and AA HAS improved its performance dramatically - because of dropping JFK service, reducing ORD service, and adding DFW service.

and AA very well could become profitable across the Pacific as a result of lower fuel prices.

AS is using lower fuel prices to help it fight DL.

but either low fuel prices are temporary or everyone else will benefit as well.

AA's average fare production in competitive markets to Asia has not improved relative to its peers.

and considering how much capacity AA is pulling from S. America and at least off-peak Europe, it isn't a surprise that AA has to throw capacity across the Pacific.

All the capacity across the Pacific hasn't changed AA's ability to compete against DL and UA esp. from the west coast.

it will be very interesting to see how well DL does relative to AA and UA given the strength of DL's alliance connections at PVG and DL's current status as the largest US carrier in the LAX to Asia local market.

 

[Platinum Steve]

Have you done a gate count, WT? Before the constructions (or destructions, depending on how you categorize the Worldport) and bankruptcies, AA had 25 gates at JFK. DL had 28. Plus, using your earlier logic, the real reason that they succeeded at JFK was because their predecessor (Pan Am) had a vast experience at JFK broadly and T-ATL specifically. So, based on the Pan Am factor and the superior gate count, DL's ascension to #1 was essentially pre-ordained, right?

I'm sure that you'll disagree with that last statement because you seem hard-wired to reflexively disagree with anyone who doesn't see the world through navy blue, triangle-shaped glasses. However, you've asserted a couple times that AA had a dominant slot position at JFK and walked away from it. Regardless of why AA management made that decision, aren't you essentially agreeing with the premise that real estate matters as it relates to JFK and arguing against the same point as it relates to LAX? At JFK, AA had the dominant slot position (aka real estate or assets) but abandoned that leading position and DL took advantage and grew into its current, leading form.

Since LAX doesn't have slots, the key "real estate" there are gates and, to a lesser extent, route authorities. For years, other airlines (including DL multiple times) took every opportunity to ignore their LA operation in favor of other priorities. AA has simply done what DL did at JFK and grown its "real estate" position to the largest gate holdings of any single airline. True, having the biggest collection of gates doesn't equal a successful operation, but you must admit that a successful operation can't be had without it. To deny that would be to deny a huge part of how DL became dominant at JFK.

 

[WorldTraveler]

AA and UA both bought the far more valuable parts of the Pan Am franchise.

DL has succeeded at JFK because AA has retreated in the face of B6 and VX competition and AA's high costs.

AA could operate far more flights today than it does at JFK. Gates aren't the issue.

the issue is that AA can't grow beyond its int'l strength markets which are to London and GRU, EZE

and you still want to believe that gates will make a difference in who succeeds as the largest carrier in the LAX to Asia local market.

The tide is moving against AA and further in DL's favor with DL's launch of LAX-PVG.

you get back to me if AA adds a flight from LAX to Asia that DL or UA does not choose to match. We might hear about new service launches for 2016 by later this summer.

 

[robbedagain]

wrong again as usual   go get help bec dude you truly need help big time.   youre so dam stuck up DL's flippin tail its not funny.   AA is in better position to grow at LAX than DL   hence  why the flip do you think DL is growing SEA   its a sign they cant grow too much at LAX the way they want to   Get a life clown

 

[WorldTraveler]

of course it's all wrong because this discussion board is nothing but a tool for personal vendetta, son

you don't the knowledge or ability to discuss anything factual so you launch into attacks at people just because they use data you don't like.

stick to throwing bags or something else you do well.

speaking about the business of aviation is way out of your league.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

AA could operate far more flights today than it does at JFK. Gates aren't the issue.

Does AA have JFK slots that they are not using?
How many?

 

[Platinum Steve]

AA and UA both bought the far more valuable parts of the Pan Am franchise.

I can't remember what parts of Pan Am that AA bought. Can you refresh my memory, WT? I know that UA bought Asia and, ultimately, Latin America. DL got the Atlantic Division and the Shuttle. What did AA get?

 

[robbedagain]

US brought the trump shuttle   which I believe was Eastern   Not sure if Pan Am had any shuttle  

 

[700UW]

Pan Am had a shuttle that is what the Delta Shuttle came from.
 
US bought Trump Shuttle after Trump lost control and Citibank stepped in and took over, US managed it then bought it from and for Citibank.
 
AA bought TW's LHR routes, it didnt buy anything from PA.
 
UA bought PA's Pacific Operation and LHR routes.
 
DL got the Shuttle and the European Flights and a hub in FRA.