AA Down Under and Trans Pac?

[WorldTraveler]

"take" quite a few months, E.

but again, E, can't acknowledge that it was UA, not DL, that stepped on top of AA's LAX-PVG announcement.

DL said a long time ago that they are building dual west coast gateways. year after year double digit growth confirms they are doing just that. AA isn't doing it and neither is UA.

What is of the highest strategic value to both DL and UA is that AA not succeed in growing a viable LAX to Asia operation.

I have yet to year a response to when AA will be able to obtain average fares at even 80%, let alone parity, with DL and UA, on its flights from LAX to Asia.

no, E, AA doesn't have what it takes to succeed in the west coast to Asia marketplace. we've been talking about it for years and you still want to deny the very real facts that confirm my position - and even what your heroes in Centerpork have acknowledged.

adding multiple more flights isn't going to change a thing regarding the performance of AA's existing Asian flights and based on the history of AA from NYC, ORD, and LAX to Asia, the chances are somewhere between slim to none that LAX additional flights 3, 4, or 5 will do any better than the dozen or so (give or take a couple) that AA have tried already from NYC, ORD, or LAX and which significantly underperform DL and/or UA.

Some would love to make the conversation about me in yet another attempt to deflect from AA's abysmal performance.

The discussion is and always will be about AA's inability to generate average fares remotely comparable to DL or UA in markets where AA compete with even one of them, let alone 2.

 

[700UW]

Someone isnt being honest again:
 

 

Delta to begin non-stop service from LAX to Shanghai
 
Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines (NYSE: DAL) has announced plans to begin daily nonstop service between Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) and Shanghai-Pudong Airport (PVG) on July 9, 2015.
 

http://www.travelpro.us/2015/01/delta-to-begin-non-stop-service-from.html
 

 



 

 

Why Delta Wants to Be 4th Airline to Fly Non-Stop From LAX to Shanghai


NEW YORK ( TheStreet) -- Delta (DAL - Get Report) surprised the airline industry last week, saying it will become the fourth passenger airline and the third U.S. airline to fly non-stop between Los Angeles and Shanghai. Service begins July 9.
In the first place, despite being the second busiest U.S. airport, Los Angeles International Airport is a tough place for U.S. airlines to offer Asia service, not only because the airport lacks the space required for any carrier to build a true hub but also because desired fare levels can be undercut by foreign competitors.
 
American (AAL) , United (UAL - Get Report)   Air China and China Eastern fly LAX-Shanghai.
 
 
 

http://www.thestreet.com/story/13018701/1/why-delta-wants-to-be-5th-airline-to-fly-non-stop-from-lax-to-shanghai.html
 
World Fraudster lies again.

 

[Platinum Steve]

WT, did you forget to answer my question? Or are you avoiding it?

You've already established for us that DL can't match AA flight-for-flight on new Asia flying given their current gate holdings. You've reported to us that DL management - in ATL and LAX - consider the current set up close to maxed out. Of course, that means that some other deal will have to be struck to get DL access to more gates capable of handling T-PAC widebodies - a notion that you reported to us was in the works. All great stuff, WT.

Now, what do we think that other deal will be? Again, this is venturing into a fuzzier world of prognostication and guessing, but you seem to be well connected and insightful enough to manage it. Give it a go.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Someone isnt being honest again:
 
 
http://www.travelpro.us/2015/01/delta-to-begin-non-stop-service-from.html
 

 



 


http://www.thestreet.com/story/13018701/1/why-delta-wants-to-be-5th-airline-to-fly-non-stop-from-lax-to-shanghai.html
 
World Fraudster lies again.

 

no, there is no lie. everything I have said to be true is reflected in what you quoted.

perhaps you haven't kept up
 

WT, did you forget to answer my question? Or are you avoiding it?

You've already established for us that DL can't match AA flight-for-flight on new Asia flying given their current gate holdings. You've reported to us that DL management - in ATL and LAX - consider the current set up close to maxed out. Of course, that means that some other deal will have to be struck to get DL access to more gates capable of handling T-PAC widebodies - a notion that you reported to us was in the works. All great stuff, WT.

Now, what do we think that other deal will be? Again, this is venturing into a fuzzier world of prognostication and guessing, but you seem to be well connected and insightful enough to manage it. Give it a go.

no, let's stop right now.

YOU have established that DL can't match AA's schedule and that is EXACTLY what you want.

AA has been unsuccessful on EVERY route it flies to Asia when it has to compete against DL or UA, or both.

instead of keep hoping that DL will just bow out, why don't you put your clearly considerable energy into figuring out to get AA to succeed in a competitive market environment to Asia.

that is the issue. nothing more nothing less.

btw, I see that AA is bowing out of the Campinas - JFK route that it just launched against Azul on top of pulling ASU service.

they'll have plenty of aircraft to throw to the Pacific if they just pull 777s out of S. America and replace with smaller airplanes - which is all that the local currencies are supporting down there anyway.

 

[jcw]

WOW AA is unsuccessful in every flight to Asia - I guess just like DL was in NY against AA for a decade

 

[FWAAA]

WOW AA is unsuccessful in every flight to Asia - I guess just like DL was in NY against AA for a decade

And AA shall forever be unsuccessful in competing against UA or DL to Asia. And so it is written.

 

[WorldTraveler]

And AA shall forever be unsuccessful in competing against UA or DL to Asia. And so it is written.

when history changes, let me know.

until then, it is foolish talk to say that AA will throw a bunch of new flights into LAX and they will suddenly become profitable while DL and UA will run out of gates and airplanes and just say "oh well"

 

[jcw]

History already changed DL partener stopped competing with AA - tough one - doesn't fit the spin

 

[WorldTraveler]

not sure what you are referring to but if it is KE, no KE and AA didn't stop competing.

they do not have ATI, cannot as long as DL still has it with KE - which DL might be keeping just to help keep KE in check, and until carriers have ATI, they are legally required to compete, even if they have codeshare agreements.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

when you get only 2/3 in revenue what other carriers get on the same route, they aren't even in the same league of profitability.
 

 
So by your logic, DL has no business flying JFK-LAX, right?
 
If it wasn't for double standards, World Fraudster would have no standards.

 

[WorldTraveler]

good morning, frugal.

you clearly don't have or are ignoring the facts.

DL actually gets MORE revenue per flight and in the JFK-LAX market as a whole than AA does.

DL doesn't get the average fares that AA does but they are the only carrier that has a full flat bed product plus uses large narrowbodies (757s) or widebodies.

as has been discussed a million times before, the reason why widebodies exist and why airlines including AA are moving to larger narrowbodies is because there is some benefit from larger aircraft size that works best in large markets.

DL's overall pricing premium means that it can get the average fares it needs and still carry the volume... plus DL carries cargo revenue.

So, there is no double standard but solely your own confusion about the market.

and, btw, DL is adding one RT each to SAN, LAX, and SFO this summer and apparently continuing into the fall.

 

[FWAAA]

you clearly don't have or are ignoring the facts.

DL actually gets MORE revenue per flight and in the JFK-LAX market as a whole than AA does.

Tell us another fairy tale, Pinocchio. I've shown my math in previous posts, now it's time for you to show your work to back up this ridiculous fantasy of yours.

DL doesn't get the average fares that AA does but they are the only carrier that has a full flat bed product plus uses large narrowbodies (757s) or widebodies.

Been quite a few complaints lately over on Flyertalk that Delta has been promising that every J seat on this route is a flat bed but that business class passengers have been seeing non-flat bed substitutions with increasing frequency. Apparently, Delta doesn't have enough flat-bed 757s or 763s to go around, leading to passenger disappointment.

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, you haven't shown total revenue at all.

nor have you shown segment revenue.

you quote charts from the DOT site that you have no idea what is in them.

still doesn't change that DL is adding yet another flight to each of SAN, SFO, and LAX.


given that DL's 5 763ER flights have as many seats as 10 AA 321T flights, it isn't hard to see how DL's additions easily are pushing AA further and further down the list in the JFK transocn markets.

as for the comment about equipment changes, given that Feb was hardly a normal month operationally, I would wait to see some sort of weather constant period to say that DL was equipment substituting because they don't have enough lie flat aircraft.

Further, feel free to do the research but I would strongly bet that DL operates a higher percentage of its schedule during IROPS than AA does. A lie flat seat doesn't do any good if it doesn't leave the gate.

 

[700UW]

From DL FA:
 
DL FA on-the-line Stories submitted by active DL flight attendants who cannot come forward themselves for fear of retribution:
 

 
"Last night I worked the worst flight of my career. We had the wrong aircraft for a transcon ny to LA. No lie flats and the passengers weren't even notified. Then it was catered wrong. It was just a disaster. The A line couldn't care less she just kept saying she was just there for her hours; which I understand but you have to care a little. Then when we were doing to meals we realized we had no plates for the food, because that route had business elite food but catering catered it half transcon and half regular domestic I ended up having to wash off appetizer plates to reuse. It was the most disguising thing ever. And I'm sure no one in upper mngmt cares. They advertise every flight from ny to LA has lie flat seats then send them on a 767 with no lie flats and no warnings and we have to deal with it."
 

 

Why I am posting it? DL employees have no protection under the law in GA at At-Will state. Without REPRESENTATION every DL employee without a CONTRACT is are subject to legal termination without due process .

 

[WorldTraveler]

oh please.

representation doesn't and hasn't stopped other airlines from substituting and worse yet cancelling a flight.

if the catering wasn't switch, it says all the more it was a last minute substitution that

I'm sorry if it comes as a huge surprise to some people but this is still the airline industry. Irregularities happen.

and the attempts at trying to focus on equipment swaps when DOT data shows that AA cancels a higher percentage of its flights than DL, including on the JFK-LAX market, are merely an attempt to try to hide that DL has become the largest airline in the JFK-LAX market based on publicly available DOT data that shows that between the two airports for Aug, DL carried 13,000 more passengers (18%) despite operating 40% fewer flights and carried more total revenue than AA did.

AA's transcon strategy only served to hand over the title of largest airline from JFK to California to DL.

and given that we are talking about LAX to Asia/Pacific, it is hard to argue that AA will improve its position in the LAX to Asia market when DL will operate the most flights from LAX to Asia by this summer among US carriers in a market segment where DL is already the leading carrier - and AA is #3.