Amfa organizers ( what does Delle say since he wrote the letter)claim the ability of the membership to vote on a possible BK agreement at AA based on the information Delle would provide after reviewing the books. Last time Delle reviewed the books at an airline it was NWA. The membership paid an undisclosed amount of money to the Seneca group to compile a report on the financial situation at NWA. Not one amfa dues paying member has seen any part of that report. Only the appointed amfa consultants have had a chance to review the report. Your presumption that Delle or amfa would furnish you information on the possibility of BK is flawed as proven at NWA. As for the voting we did vote hanging chads or not we voted. Did the laid off mechanics a related get to vote at NWA?
"aa Better Off In Bankruptcy"
- Thread starter twuer
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Checking it Out
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With the lies caught on video from delle about bankruptcy at branniff and the letter indicating AA would have been better off in BK. I believe the members will make the smart choice to stay with the TWU if an election is ever held!!!!
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The "review" was never completed.ladderman said:
Seneca provided information from the intitial attempts to review NWA and this led to a long laundry list of questions posed by the AMFA NEC, the Legal Team, and the National Administrator, it is wrong to say that dues payers did not see the report, because the report was never completed. NWA to date still has NOT provided answers to the list of questions. NWA recently asked the Association what was their answer on concessions. The Association told NWA that they had not provided the answers to the questions and now the previous data is stale and old. A demand was given for new data, along with answers to the previous posed questions. Again, no response from NWA.
I am not presuming anything. The facts are the facts. I am not a northwest employee and I know more about the process and activity between NWA and AMFA regarding financial investigations, than I ever knew of the same activity between TWU and AA. I do know that the TWU hired the same (ECLAT) firm to invesitgate that AA used to give their intitial report to the TWU International. Is this an "indepedent review", in your mind?
You are correct we voted, first it was disclosed the 3200 member did not get pin numbers, then it was disclosed that AA did not provide us ALL the required information. Then Jim Little stated the only way to legitimize the ratification is to re-vote. This is not AMFA Organizers or Supporters claiming the ratification was tainted, it was your own ATD Director of the TWU. Why do you guys refuse to hold your current union to the same standard that you wish to hold AMFA? At least at Northwest, the union is not the communication line for management propaganda using the same finincial analysis firm as the corporation, the union is demanding that ALL questions be answered, and that is not happening, therfore there is NOTHING to report to the membership. Any AMFA member at NWA that does not have a closed mind knows this is fact.
Do the laid-off TWU members at AA get to vote? At least at Northwest, the union is fighting the company in arbitration for jobs lost instead of volunteering to strip members of job security protections like the TWU did, and remember, this was done "without further ratification". You have alot of nerve posting questions about laid-off members voting rights, because the TWU successfully argued in Federal Court that the TWU Consitution Does NOT require even active, empolyed TWU members to ratifiy changes or amendments to any TWU Labor Agreement. Again, before you arrive with a broom to sweep another union's porch, why don't you check the dirt gernerated by your own union first? Why don't you hold the organization you currently pay two hours pay per month for representation to the same standards you wish to hold the AMFA?
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Why cannot you NOT grasp what this debate is really about?Checking it Out said:
This is not about the past, it is about the future. This is not about a Bankrupcty at Braniff, you know as well as anyone that the Braniff BK changed the BK laws regarding Union Labor Agreements, so why use antiquated history as any form of data for today's decisions? You also have been proven a liar by claiming Delle- Femine said "AA would have been better off in BK". If all you have left to defend the TWU is antiquated BK filings, and "paraphrased" opinions from Delle-Femine, you are in a battle that will lead to your defeat.
If you want to win the hearts and support of the AMT's in the industry, then try to refute this, because this is what the debate is really about...
The Concept of “Craft or Classâ€
This is Federal Legal concept “Craft or Classâ€
In accordance with the Railway Labor Act, the Federal Government has decided that certain work groups have a mutuality of interest at the bargaining table and in advancing worker related issues, and that groups outside of that particular craft or class should have no participation in how the union is run or at least in the initial decision as to who represents that work group. And so Pilots vote with Pilots, and Flight Attendants as matter of law are prohibited from voting with the Pilots. And in turn, the Pilots are prohibited by law from voting with the Flight Attendants because they are considered to be in different Craft or Classes by the National Mediation Board. And Mechanic and Related Workers within the Airline Industry are entitled by law to vote just amongst themselves.
Supporters of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) believe that it comprises our mission to remain associated within a union structure with other crafts or classes that according to Federal Government do NOT share our mutuality of interest. The mission is further compromised when we remain associated with other crafts or classes within the union structure of “majority rule†and our particular craft or class is the minority in size. The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) is the only union in this current debate at American Airlines that says “We will forbid ourselvesâ€, it will be unconstitutional for us to go and represent baggage handlers, flight attendants, or passenger service clerks, and we will not let ourselves do that because this would compromise our mission. We wish the baggage handlers and other crafts or classes on the property the very best, but they cannot pick our pockets, we wish them to get the very best on their own, but they should no longer be allowed to ride on our backs. In other words, it is time for the airline industry to decouple the mechanic vs. baggage handler pay and benefit structure. It is suffice to say that since deregulation of the airline industry which since enactment has created enormous competition and pressure on airline ticket pricing, and that has resulted in the craft or class of mechanic and related workers suffering in economic buying power, and especially when compared to the Pilots and Flight Attendants who at American belong to craft specific unions. In the mid 1970’s, the Flight Attendants of American Airlines were also represented by the Transport Workers Union of American (TWU), and just as the mechanics today seek a change to a craft specific union, they also left the TWU in favor of the independent Association of Professional Flight Attendants (APFA) The craft or class of Mechanic and Related at American Airlines can no longer afford to remain in an organization that advocates a linking of different work groups that according to law do not share a mutuality of interest.
Regardless of good or bad economic times, and regardless of whether the union is negotiating concessions to prevent a bankruptcy filing or negotiating from economic growth with corporate profits, the formula by which the economic pie is divided amongst the union membership is a union decision. The recent concessions are a clear case in point, because American Airlines was demanding $620 Million in concessions from the TWU, but how those give backs were divided up was a union decision, not a company decision. And the facts are clear, that the craft or class of Mechanic and Related at American took more than our fair share of that amount, and it is also clear this was a union decision.
AMFA IS THE RIGHT CHOICE FOR SKILLED TECHNICIANS
Larry Costanza
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Hey CIO it's not if an election will be held it's whaen an election will be held goy it. Good.And fear not the members will will make the smart choice and that is voting for AMFA and democracy. How's that fishin coming along? Fight for those dues paying members Rick, they deserve it. What's the catch of the day? You should be spending time dusting your tools off and getting ready to make an honest living for a change. Although CIO and honesty really don't go together now do they. AMFA 2004 it will happen. That's a promise CIO. Many more of us will see to it than not. Rest assured. Your a minority now Rick get used to it. Loser.Checking it Out said:
Well, I go to visit the mother-in-law and come back and see that you afma wannabes are still in denial. I as read back over Delle's comments it hits me. . .maybe insted of saying that AA would have been better off in BK then what I should have said was the TWU union member would have been better off in BK. You know, I do believe that this is much worse. Either way the message of what Delle said is clear. Let's look at it closely shall we. . .
"If AA filed (as in past tense, something that has taken place) for BK then the company. . .had to sit down and negotiate with your union."
Now, where are you confused??? He speaks of the company in BK.
Next. . .
"You would have been in a better position (the postion of BANKRUPTCY!!!!!!)because you would have to show the BK judge (why else would you need a BK judge unless you were IN BK) that you were negotiating in good faith and would have come away with a better concessionary contract."
Delle is clearly advocating that the "position" of BK would have been a better position for the union member. What part of that are you NOT getting?
And the sum up his remarks he adds this. . .
"I guess you blindly followed the TWU and got the shaft."
He indicates by this statement that negotiating with the company for a concessionary contract instead of allowing the company to enter BK is NOT the better way to go. I guess he thinks that "the shaft" that he says we got is worse than what the UAL members got in BK or what AA would have gotten as a result of BK, which is maintenance base closings, huge layoffs, outsourcing, a hit on the retiree benefits and on medical costs, not to mention not being off the hook from BK if all those things didn't make AA profitable. Kind of sounds like what Delle has gotten accomplished at NWA. I see a pattern here.
So, are you defending this or not???? If you are, it's no wonder that you are following Delle blindly because you simply can't understand english!!!
The fact that Delle takes the position that we should not have agreed unless there were snap-back provisions indicates his intent to push the company INTO BK. You guys have failed to provide any BK proceedings or proof that any bargaining agent in the airline industry has ever received snap-backs in BK. Delle doesn't have a clue as to what he even says. . .he just says it because it sounds good. The reason companies refuse to agree to snap-backs in these types of cases is right before your eyes. They know that they are simply NOT awarded by a BK judge therefore why should they give them up willingly?
So, I stand by my statement that Delle thinks we, the union members, would have been in a better position if AA had entered bankruptcy.
"If AA filed (as in past tense, something that has taken place) for BK then the company. . .had to sit down and negotiate with your union."
Now, where are you confused??? He speaks of the company in BK.
Next. . .
"You would have been in a better position (the postion of BANKRUPTCY!!!!!!)because you would have to show the BK judge (why else would you need a BK judge unless you were IN BK) that you were negotiating in good faith and would have come away with a better concessionary contract."
Delle is clearly advocating that the "position" of BK would have been a better position for the union member. What part of that are you NOT getting?
And the sum up his remarks he adds this. . .
"I guess you blindly followed the TWU and got the shaft."
He indicates by this statement that negotiating with the company for a concessionary contract instead of allowing the company to enter BK is NOT the better way to go. I guess he thinks that "the shaft" that he says we got is worse than what the UAL members got in BK or what AA would have gotten as a result of BK, which is maintenance base closings, huge layoffs, outsourcing, a hit on the retiree benefits and on medical costs, not to mention not being off the hook from BK if all those things didn't make AA profitable. Kind of sounds like what Delle has gotten accomplished at NWA. I see a pattern here.
So, are you defending this or not???? If you are, it's no wonder that you are following Delle blindly because you simply can't understand english!!!
The fact that Delle takes the position that we should not have agreed unless there were snap-back provisions indicates his intent to push the company INTO BK. You guys have failed to provide any BK proceedings or proof that any bargaining agent in the airline industry has ever received snap-backs in BK. Delle doesn't have a clue as to what he even says. . .he just says it because it sounds good. The reason companies refuse to agree to snap-backs in these types of cases is right before your eyes. They know that they are simply NOT awarded by a BK judge therefore why should they give them up willingly?
So, I stand by my statement that Delle thinks we, the union members, would have been in a better position if AA had entered bankruptcy.
TWU informer
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Can you prove that the Judge would have screwed us any worse than the TWU? The Vermont Plan was worse in terms of jobs lost, but that was not to be the end result in BK was it? It was the company opening position. Couldn't we have still negotiated concessions for jobs in BK?
Maybe if we had a craft union making arguements that it is UNSAFE to continue to erode the pay of maintenance professionals, we would have faired better. YOU DON'T KNOW, DO YOU? Because NO AMT CRAFT SPECIFIC union has argued in front a BK Judge under current BK rules. Maybe the reason we got screwed is because we did not go AMFA in 1989.
Your complete defense of the TWU is based on a what-if regarding this current concession, with complete disregard for the previos 20 years of the same type of worker economic results.
Why do you always want to only discuss your explanation of current TWU concessions? Is it because you cannot defend the 20 previous years fo TWU concession while hiding behind a BK Judge?
Instead, we sit here with our wallets and benefits drained, and zero shared sacrifice by management. And management that is still obviously determined to outsource work. And mangement that has NOT changed one thing about the AA business plan. All that is happening is a scorched earth policy converting our AA flights to Eagle RJ's right under our nose.
Can you explain how Eagle is taking delivery of 42 Jets this year and AA bid $310 Million on USAir Shuttle? That really sounds like a BK corporation to me.
Maybe if we had a craft union making arguements that it is UNSAFE to continue to erode the pay of maintenance professionals, we would have faired better. YOU DON'T KNOW, DO YOU? Because NO AMT CRAFT SPECIFIC union has argued in front a BK Judge under current BK rules. Maybe the reason we got screwed is because we did not go AMFA in 1989.
Your complete defense of the TWU is based on a what-if regarding this current concession, with complete disregard for the previos 20 years of the same type of worker economic results.
Why do you always want to only discuss your explanation of current TWU concessions? Is it because you cannot defend the 20 previous years fo TWU concession while hiding behind a BK Judge?
Instead, we sit here with our wallets and benefits drained, and zero shared sacrifice by management. And management that is still obviously determined to outsource work. And mangement that has NOT changed one thing about the AA business plan. All that is happening is a scorched earth policy converting our AA flights to Eagle RJ's right under our nose.
Can you explain how Eagle is taking delivery of 42 Jets this year and AA bid $310 Million on USAir Shuttle? That really sounds like a BK corporation to me.
So, you are defending Delle. Thought so!!!!!
Tell me this Informer. . .do you tink NWA and UAL are in a better "position" than AA right now? Simple yes or no answer will suffice.
Some of the things that you ask me I do not have the knowledge to answer so don't think I am avoiding them. I like to be aware of things before I start a discussion, unlike some of the folks on these boards.
AA is once again looking somewhat profitable, not out of the woods by any means but better than a year ago thanks due in part of those concessions that the union members made, ALL the union members.
Can you prove that the Judge would have screwed us any worse than the TWU?
So, you too agree with Delle that massive layoffs, loss of work (work never to return) ETC was better than the concessions?? That right there my friend is the thing that I am fighting. . .this amfa mindset. BK is devastating to any company. How could this possibly "protect the profession"???? Can you tell me that???? Concessions are a hardship, noone disagress with that but you cannot justify going in to BK as an plausible argument.
I hate that this crap is happening among union members, but there will always be differences of opinions. This is nothing but a he said/she said type of debate on these boards and at our places of work. My "union" helped save a dying company and a community who depends on this company. I am not in this world only for myself I have others to look after and that includes my family. Now criticize that approach if you will (and I'm sure I will get an ear full) but I will not stand by idly while some unproven "association" raids the union that I support. I will put up full resistance.
You and your leader think BK is better. . .than I will let that be known.
Tell me this Informer. . .do you tink NWA and UAL are in a better "position" than AA right now? Simple yes or no answer will suffice.
Some of the things that you ask me I do not have the knowledge to answer so don't think I am avoiding them. I like to be aware of things before I start a discussion, unlike some of the folks on these boards.
AA is once again looking somewhat profitable, not out of the woods by any means but better than a year ago thanks due in part of those concessions that the union members made, ALL the union members.
Can you prove that the Judge would have screwed us any worse than the TWU?
So, you too agree with Delle that massive layoffs, loss of work (work never to return) ETC was better than the concessions?? That right there my friend is the thing that I am fighting. . .this amfa mindset. BK is devastating to any company. How could this possibly "protect the profession"???? Can you tell me that???? Concessions are a hardship, noone disagress with that but you cannot justify going in to BK as an plausible argument.
I hate that this crap is happening among union members, but there will always be differences of opinions. This is nothing but a he said/she said type of debate on these boards and at our places of work. My "union" helped save a dying company and a community who depends on this company. I am not in this world only for myself I have others to look after and that includes my family. Now criticize that approach if you will (and I'm sure I will get an ear full) but I will not stand by idly while some unproven "association" raids the union that I support. I will put up full resistance.
You and your leader think BK is better. . .than I will let that be known.
TWU informer
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You don't answer questions because you "don't have the knowledge".
Then your basis of opinion must be made on hearsay. The question is, are you going to go find out the information, or just simply be anti-amfa on hearsay so you can remain on UB and avoid work? The fact is the AMFA idea has not even been tried yet. Have the ALL mechanic gotten into one union yet? No. And until that happens, how can you claim the idea will not advance the profession better than the last twenty years of TWU history?
NWA the airline, is in better shape than AA.
UAL the airline, is not.
NWA the mechanic, is exactly where that membership wants them to be, or they would take appropaite action under the democractic constitution of AMFA.
UAL, was screwed by the IAM in a scorched earth policy on the way out the door, but now they are AMFA, and appear to be very content to be there and least have hope.
Again, NO MECHANIC group has gone before the BK Judge with a CRAFT UNION.
Until NWA, the Mechanics had never gone before a PEB with a CRAFT UNION, and I say they did pretty well.
You seem to think I am a stupid man and do not have a family to take of like you. I am not trying to eleminate my own job. But truth is, I have been around long enough not to be trapped by the TWU FEAR AND LIES. You obviously are still in that learning stage.
I have told you time and time again, I have not based my AMFA support decision on the current concessions and industry woes. I began supporting AMFA in January 1999. Don't you remember Burchette claiming we were "disrupting negotiations" and "dividing the membership to the delight of management"? I remember a certain person on the ramp at RATFEST "99 talking about AMFA solicitors on his dock. That was you wasn't it? Tell me twuer, was AA near BK then? Did the AMFA drive cause you to get a "bad" contract?
Are you sure about the "DYING COMAPANY" statement? You did not explain the 42 RJ's being delivered this year. And there are 125+ more on order. AA bid $310 Million on USAir shuttle. If that is what you call a dying company, then you should check to see if you have been lied to by someone. I maintain that you did nothing with the concessions except advance the expansion of Eagle, and the reduction of AA.
Again, let whatever you want be known. However, I speak my own mind, and don't need you or your thought police telling everyone what my opinions are.
The vast majority of members I talk to think we made a mistake and once given the chance to vote in a legitmate setting are going to lash out and prove that point.
Then your basis of opinion must be made on hearsay. The question is, are you going to go find out the information, or just simply be anti-amfa on hearsay so you can remain on UB and avoid work? The fact is the AMFA idea has not even been tried yet. Have the ALL mechanic gotten into one union yet? No. And until that happens, how can you claim the idea will not advance the profession better than the last twenty years of TWU history?
NWA the airline, is in better shape than AA.
UAL the airline, is not.
NWA the mechanic, is exactly where that membership wants them to be, or they would take appropaite action under the democractic constitution of AMFA.
UAL, was screwed by the IAM in a scorched earth policy on the way out the door, but now they are AMFA, and appear to be very content to be there and least have hope.
Again, NO MECHANIC group has gone before the BK Judge with a CRAFT UNION.
Until NWA, the Mechanics had never gone before a PEB with a CRAFT UNION, and I say they did pretty well.
You seem to think I am a stupid man and do not have a family to take of like you. I am not trying to eleminate my own job. But truth is, I have been around long enough not to be trapped by the TWU FEAR AND LIES. You obviously are still in that learning stage.
I have told you time and time again, I have not based my AMFA support decision on the current concessions and industry woes. I began supporting AMFA in January 1999. Don't you remember Burchette claiming we were "disrupting negotiations" and "dividing the membership to the delight of management"? I remember a certain person on the ramp at RATFEST "99 talking about AMFA solicitors on his dock. That was you wasn't it? Tell me twuer, was AA near BK then? Did the AMFA drive cause you to get a "bad" contract?
Are you sure about the "DYING COMAPANY" statement? You did not explain the 42 RJ's being delivered this year. And there are 125+ more on order. AA bid $310 Million on USAir shuttle. If that is what you call a dying company, then you should check to see if you have been lied to by someone. I maintain that you did nothing with the concessions except advance the expansion of Eagle, and the reduction of AA.
Again, let whatever you want be known. However, I speak my own mind, and don't need you or your thought police telling everyone what my opinions are.
The vast majority of members I talk to think we made a mistake and once given the chance to vote in a legitmate setting are going to lash out and prove that point.
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
Rusty,
Stellar Gif, Would you mind if I used it?
Take Care,
UAL_TECH
Stellar Gif, Would you mind if I used it?
Take Care,
UAL_TECH
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
TWU informer,
Thanks for the support!!!
AMFA at UAL is doing quite a bit more in protecting what is left over from our BK concessionary contract. Most of us are 'more' than contented, some of us are 'very' involved'.
If not, how much have you seen on this BB (and others) from UAL AMFA dissenters?
My count is 'ZERO'!!!
Here is a good read:
Way Points (AMFA Local 9) News Letter
Take Care,
UAL_TECH
Thanks for the support!!!
AMFA at UAL is doing quite a bit more in protecting what is left over from our BK concessionary contract. Most of us are 'more' than contented, some of us are 'very' involved'.
If not, how much have you seen on this BB (and others) from UAL AMFA dissenters?
My count is 'ZERO'!!!
Here is a good read:
Way Points (AMFA Local 9) News Letter
Take Care,
UAL_TECHTWU informer “Seneca provided information from the initial attempts to review NWA and this led to a long laundry list of questions posed by the AMFA NEC, the Legal Team, and the National Administrator, it is wrong to say that dues payers did not see the report, because the report was never completedâ€.
I would appreciate if you could tell me were I can read the information you are talking about or see the “long laundry list of questions†you refer to. The only information that I can remember being put out in regards to the Seneca report stated due to the financial information that was in the report it could not be released. Being that amfa puts out all the information to its members I am sure you or an amfa official can make the reports or “long laundry list of questions†you refer to available for all of us to read, or an official statement from amfa stating the report is incomplete due to NWA lack of participation. I look forward to reading the reports in the next few days thanks.
I would appreciate if you could tell me were I can read the information you are talking about or see the “long laundry list of questions†you refer to. The only information that I can remember being put out in regards to the Seneca report stated due to the financial information that was in the report it could not be released. Being that amfa puts out all the information to its members I am sure you or an amfa official can make the reports or “long laundry list of questions†you refer to available for all of us to read, or an official statement from amfa stating the report is incomplete due to NWA lack of participation. I look forward to reading the reports in the next few days thanks.
REPLY FROM AMFA NATIONAL DIRECTOR:
Subj: Re: Urgent Question Please
Date: 3/4/2003 6:37:59 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: AMFANATL
To: Away Frm it All, natldirector@amfanatl.org
CC: XXXXXXX@mindspring.com, AMFANATL, AMFANATSEC, RegI-Dir@AMFANATL.org, ASSTNATLDIRECTOR, AMFAregion2@earthlink.net, Safety-StandDir@AMFANATL.org, AMFANatTreas@worldnet.att.net, SSMPLS, AMFAADMIN
Dear XXXXX:
Thank you for giving us the opportunity to answer the scurrilous out right fabrications and half truths that the industrial unions of the IAM/IBT/TWU have been spewing for years about AMFA at Braniff 2.
You must remember Braniff 1 was represented by the IAM for some 25 years and they closed down their local as soon as Braniff 1 went bankrupt and gave none of their members any representation or pay form collections to the court. They left their members out on their own to collect their own forms and present them to the court because they could not find any IAM officers to help them. In fact some of their IAM leadership immediately obtained jobs from AA in Dallas.
True. Braniff 2 went bankrupt while AMFA was representing them for some nine months. We defeated the IBT and the IAM in that election. In fact we were at the negotiating table when we heard news that they were closing their bases and filing for bankruptcy.
Thanks to our legal support, AMFA immediately distributed the bankruptcy pay forms to collect money owed to them. We also distributed the insurance COBRA forms to our members. We had those forms filled out within three days and presented them to the bankruptcy court. It took about 18 to 22 months to collect their money but we got what Braniff 2 owed them which amounted to two weeks pay and vacation time. At the court we worked with the MEC representing the ALPA-Braniff 2 pilots. Incidentally, the IBT represented the ramp and ticket employees and it took them six months to send their forms in to the bankruptcy court. We did not see any of the IBT officers at the court.
Two directors went to jail from Braniff 2 because of fraud. If I recall correctly, they had 100 million from Wall Street and when it got to the airline they only had 16 million left. They did not have enough money to sustain the airline.
Those company officials took their unauthorized fees off the top.
Further, less than two weeks after the bankruptcy we set up a job fair and paid advertisements to come to Braniff's 2 hangar in Orlando where our members were interviewed for jobs. Walt Disney hired most of our members because of their expertise in hydraulics, sheet metal and electricity. The A&P license has tremendous value outside of our industry.
I hope I have helped to give you our side on what happened at Braniff 2.
Sincerely, Dell
Subj: Re: Urgent Question Please
Date: 3/4/2003 6:37:59 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: AMFANATL
To: Away Frm it All, natldirector@amfanatl.org
CC: XXXXXXX@mindspring.com, AMFANATL, AMFANATSEC, RegI-Dir@AMFANATL.org, ASSTNATLDIRECTOR, AMFAregion2@earthlink.net, Safety-StandDir@AMFANATL.org, AMFANatTreas@worldnet.att.net, SSMPLS, AMFAADMIN
Dear XXXXX:
Thank you for giving us the opportunity to answer the scurrilous out right fabrications and half truths that the industrial unions of the IAM/IBT/TWU have been spewing for years about AMFA at Braniff 2.
You must remember Braniff 1 was represented by the IAM for some 25 years and they closed down their local as soon as Braniff 1 went bankrupt and gave none of their members any representation or pay form collections to the court. They left their members out on their own to collect their own forms and present them to the court because they could not find any IAM officers to help them. In fact some of their IAM leadership immediately obtained jobs from AA in Dallas.
True. Braniff 2 went bankrupt while AMFA was representing them for some nine months. We defeated the IBT and the IAM in that election. In fact we were at the negotiating table when we heard news that they were closing their bases and filing for bankruptcy.
Thanks to our legal support, AMFA immediately distributed the bankruptcy pay forms to collect money owed to them. We also distributed the insurance COBRA forms to our members. We had those forms filled out within three days and presented them to the bankruptcy court. It took about 18 to 22 months to collect their money but we got what Braniff 2 owed them which amounted to two weeks pay and vacation time. At the court we worked with the MEC representing the ALPA-Braniff 2 pilots. Incidentally, the IBT represented the ramp and ticket employees and it took them six months to send their forms in to the bankruptcy court. We did not see any of the IBT officers at the court.
Two directors went to jail from Braniff 2 because of fraud. If I recall correctly, they had 100 million from Wall Street and when it got to the airline they only had 16 million left. They did not have enough money to sustain the airline.
Those company officials took their unauthorized fees off the top.
Further, less than two weeks after the bankruptcy we set up a job fair and paid advertisements to come to Braniff's 2 hangar in Orlando where our members were interviewed for jobs. Walt Disney hired most of our members because of their expertise in hydraulics, sheet metal and electricity. The A&P license has tremendous value outside of our industry.
I hope I have helped to give you our side on what happened at Braniff 2.
Sincerely, Dell
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UAL Tech Is it true that the mechanics at UAL do not work for United Airlines anymore? I heard you are employed by United Services now. Why is it that amfa has not made any mention of this ? I would think a truly democratic union would inform their members of such a change and the impact it will have on them. Like maybe selling the whole maintenance division right from under the employees to fund BK and if they can not get the loans needed to emerge from BK. I think we should dodge that bullet. Keep your so called union at United Services. Good Luck . 
