"E" that quote about the "girls in the back" was straight out of Ichan's "thoughts" on negitiating with the f/as in '86. He stood at a window and said, "See that little girls down there? I can get her to come to work for me for $1000 a month. Why should I pay you more?" And he did... He also said we were not breadwinners (which was agreed to by the pilots and IAM because it meant their piece of the pie would be bigger). I believe the APFA will accept less because they are the APFA.
AA/APFA Negotiations
- Thread starter damajagua
- Start date
"E" that quote about the "girls in the back" was straight out of Ichan's "thoughts" on negitiating with the f/as in '86. He stood at a window and said, "See that little girls down there? I can get her to come to work for me for $1000 a month. Why should I pay you more?" And he did... He also said we were not breadwinners (which was agreed to by the pilots and IAM because it meant their piece of the pie would be bigger). I believe the APFA will accept less because they are the APFA.
jersey777
Veteran
- May 24, 2006
- 627
- 73
You have no idea of what is on the table so your assertions of knowing what the APFA has or has not backed off on are purely speculative. The only issues that have been made public are the company's proposals so once again you are living in your "I could do it better" fantasyland. Maybe you should try out for the Norma Desmond role in Union negotiations. "Mr. Arpey, I'm ready for my closeup!"
MCI transplant
Veteran
- Jun 4, 2003
- 5,311
- 584
- Banned
- #93
The $50 bet (for retro) is still on the table...I'll even add restore and more. You game? Charity of your choice (or mine if I'm right). My charity will be a choice of TWA WECARE or Bi-State Pet Food Pantry.
jersey777
Veteran
- May 24, 2006
- 627
- 73
I'm sorry. I don't bet with scab advocators. I never trust someone that would cross a picket line or one that would suggest that others should do so.
I agree with Jersey777. Plus, you don't even work for AA anymore. Your opinions about our current negotiations are mute! I don't believe you have an ounce of good intent or care for those of us remaining. Your posts are destructive, divisive and delusional.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,959
- 9,374
Uh, points aren't mute. They're moot.
Was Nancy's (or any other ex-TW employee's) "not working for AA anymore" really her choice?... If she's one of those forcibly retired or who retired to save someone else from furlough, then she's earned the right to say whatever she wants about the union.
Was Nancy's (or any other ex-TW employee's) "not working for AA anymore" really her choice?... If she's one of those forcibly retired or who retired to save someone else from furlough, then she's earned the right to say whatever she wants about the union.
Please don't put words in my mouth. All the Coalition did was offer a wake up call to the APFA. We did not advocate any action. We just reminded them of what could possibly happen when you set out to disenfranchize a select portion of your membership. I have never nor would I ever cross a picket line. I spent over 2 years on strike. I've been tested and passed the test. Your 5 day strike was a great success BECAUSE of the Presidential intervention. You had people crossing so fast there wasn't time to get phone numbers or exchange recipes. This is a new day and age. Unemployment is at record levels. The company intends to hire in the near future. That puts the f/as at a disadvantage. You need to be given hard facts so you can make an informed decision. At first everyone is rah rah but what will it be after 1 week, 1 month, 6 weeks when the company locks you out? Trust me it isn't our folks you have to worry about, it is your own.
I have every right to be concerned about this round of negotiations. This is a very "me me" centered union/work force and I have no illusions that "youth" would not hestitate to sell out retirement for "my-now". The actions of "my union" during the RPA cost me my career. While you have "given back", I gave 100%. I get to say my piece. I am appalled at the way the APFA has "prepared" themselves and their membership for this round of negotiations. The apathy of the membership speaks so loudly that the APFA would not say how many actually voted for a work stoppage. And of course, when asked (just like with RPA where everyone now says "I voted NO") everyone will say "YES". (funny how ONLY STL could actually prove that they voted no @ 99%)
Bottom line, if I am wrong I will be the FIRST to say I was wrong. You seem to forget I have a lot of friends that will be under any new agreement so I certainly hope I am wrong.
H----bells the union can't even get the recalls dues questions answered in a timely manner so that they are eligible to vote. Another tainted election, more DOL visits.
Are you kidding me?? We all read the letter from the coalition and it did advocate working during a strike. No one is putting words in your mouth.
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/02/ex-twa-flight-attendants-threa.html
It has been posted many, many times on the APFA website that 98.6% of the APFA membership voted in favor of a strike.
Did you not write this in your letter to the APFA?
"You are hereby notified; we are prepared to present our CHAOS busting
strategy and offer of assistance to American Airlines to quickly defeat any
effort you may employ in an attempt to force the company to deal. Our
willingness to assist the company will undermine any support you may still
have within your fractured membership. Since we are well aware of how few
people it takes to break a strike, and since CHAOS at a small regional
carrier like Alaska is a whole different ballgame than CHAOS at a large
network carrier like American, we know the scenario you face is a union's
worst nightmare. APFA could not pull off a general strike if life itself
depended on it, and there is no way to succeed with CHAOS. We know we have a
receptive audience in American Airlines management. They are always willing
to save money on the backs of Flight Attendants."
"You are hereby notified; we are prepared to present our CHAOS busting
strategy and offer of assistance to American Airlines to quickly defeat any
effort you may employ in an attempt to force the company to deal. Our
willingness to assist the company will undermine any support you may still
have within your fractured membership. Since we are well aware of how few
people it takes to break a strike, and since CHAOS at a small regional
carrier like Alaska is a whole different ballgame than CHAOS at a large
network carrier like American, we know the scenario you face is a union's
worst nightmare. APFA could not pull off a general strike if life itself
depended on it, and there is no way to succeed with CHAOS. We know we have a
receptive audience in American Airlines management. They are always willing
to save money on the backs of Flight Attendants."
One of many... Just giving a wakeup call of what COULD happen. Not advocating one way or another. As I stated, you have more to fear from your own. I know because I have seen the questions from quite a few non TWA f/as re: options. You have to understand, I am not the Coalition. I am only one member of many. We rotate leadership and it is still very active.
I have publicly stated that I have never nor will I ever cross a picket line. I cannot speak for others. What the APFA has done and continues to do to its members raises serious concerns.
We found out that our retirees were our worst enemy. A strike presented them with the perfect opportunity to fly "one more time". This retiree has no desire to fly as a junior f/a. I loved the job but I'm too much of a Purser/#1 and would hate flying different positions and being on reserve.
CHAOS will not work at AA and I don't think the f/as will support a full walk out for more than a day or so...next.
Also, things change. The letter served its purpose and it did get the APFAs attention. The coalition received a total of 9 comments from the outraged AA f/as
re: the Coalition letter. They mostly consisted of "we thought you were so nice".
We are (for the most part) all very nice. (lol)
Now back to topic:
Good luck!
Having established that you have to "earn the right to say whatever" you want about unions, your words, not mine, how did you earn yours?
Nancy, welcome back, glad to hear you still have union principles, but I was witness to 2003, I dint see too many crossing, they held pretty stong. Those few who did are still easy to spot. Hope you are wearing your red disc and pin, remember it was AA that bought TWA and AA that decided to reduce headcount. If that hadnt happened we would all probably be mute on this because the issue would be moot. The wounds are not nearly as fresh in Maint but I suppose there will be scars, but we must move on and get what we can out of these companies. Another thing, the APFA, like us in the TWU isnt a youthful group, the average age is probably in the late 40s like us.
D
Deleted member 17588
Guest
"retired to save someone else from furlough"??!! You've got to be kidding me. No one decides to retire as an act of good will to save a job. Voluntary leave of absence? Yes. Retire? No. Some members of our workforce won't retire until they're carried off the plane in a body bag.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,959
- 9,374
And having established that you support shutting down dissent, I guess it's a good thing that not only does everyone has the right to an opinion here, but nobody else gets to tell them to STFU just because they don't like their opinion.
D
Deleted member 17588
Guest
No one is telling you to STFU. I don't want to speak for Bob, but I think I know the point he's making because I feel the same way. There are two groups of people on this website: 1.) those of us who are actual, current employees of AA and members of its respective unions and 2.) those of you who are not our coworkers and are watching from the sidelines. The problem with the latter is you folks are always telling us what's best for us; what our unions should be doing; how we should perform our jobs; how we should be grateful to even have a job.; how we should be able to manage our lives just fine without pay restoration; etc., etc.
No matter how much "in the know" you think you are, or how many friends you have at CentrePork keeping you updated in what's going on at AA, you really cannot fully grasp our situation because you are not walking in our shoes and experiencing first hand the loads of BS tossed our way by AA on a daily basis. We are the ones who have been working under a draconian cut in pay and benefits for the past nine years. Yet you and others on this board seem to think that your opinion alone is equal in weight to our actual experience. Well, it's not. Until you and the others are down in the trenches like the rest of us, I will continue to dismiss your arrogant opinions but in the spirit of democracy I will not attempt to stifle your right to say them.
