AA and US merger?

[signals]

Bingo ... It's cheaper to fly than drive to FLA from the northeast .... Hmmm why is that!!! Could it be to many seats flying around.

Really? If 3 people drive to Fla the savings are phenomenal. No luggage fees.

 

[signals]

I also wish the people of AA good luck, alone after restructuring, or combined with US in some configuration.

I'm noticing the increasingly strident tone of WT's posts, with emotional buzzwords and name calling, and it does seem that this emotionalism detracts from what otherwise may be some valid points. There's definitely an extreme bias against US visible, which colors one's perspective.

I doubt that this BK plan is being done without input and planning of Doug Parker, and suggest this is an example of the same sort of pre planning and BK filing done by Delta and Northwest when they filed at basically the same time and ended up wed together.

IF Doug Parker is involved in any way, then I'm sure Jerry Glass has been taking a red pencil to all of AA's CBA's and advising Doug what cuts must be made and how to screw labor. He's excellent at what he does, and the companies that hire him get major results.

I am no fan of US management, but if one steps back and observes what has taken place at US since 2005, it can appear that this was the endgame all along and the holding pattern and cheapness of US was designed to keep costs at an absolute minimum and go for the big play when the opportunity presents itself.

The pilot mess at US is in my opinion a non factor due to the sheer numbers that APA has will leave USAPA a bad memory. And I would not be surprised if Doug opens his wallet just a bit to buy labor peace as he proposed to do in the Delta takeover attempt. For those employees that survive at each carrier, they may actually see improvements in their CBA's. (perhaps not from current AA rates, but definitely from the BK rates that will be imposed upon AA labor) and from the current BK era concessions still being suffered through at US.

I am no cheerleader for mergers. Employees really take a hit, with layoffs, relocations, etc. But I am leaning toward thinking this is a good idea for both carriers, and it's not because I have any bias toward US. It does make sense on many levels and Doug and his team are not stupid people nor idiots. They are not necessarily passenger friendly or employee friendly, but I suspect they learned a lot from the failed Delta takeover, and if they choose to make a play, it will be well designed and thought out, and ultimately they will control AA. There will be reductions and job loss and mine may be one of those, nothing is secure, but in my opinion a merger would offer the best possibility of the most employees of the two carriers having a job in five years. If it does not happen, I think perhaps US looks at linking up with Jet Blue and Alaska, or maybe all of these combine in the new AA. It's a crazy world.

I suspect PHX will eventually resemble PIT, a once bustling hq and hub, greatly reduced headcount and flights. HQ would most likely be DFW, (but don't rule out CLT making an aggressive and incentive laden bid) and the AA name survives.

As dysfunctional and screwed up as US is, (and it really is), it's not the worst place in the world to work, and after the dust settled, I believe AA people and US people would find they have more in common than they thought. It's the trauma of BK and the emotional upheaval that AA people are going to experience as they go through the process that will be most disturbing.

Again, I'm not pro merger or wanting this to necessarily happen, but simply want to offer a new perspective. If US and AA remain apart, I'm more than happy to continue with my mega seniority intact as long as the doors remain open.

We have a winner!

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

I don't know if I'm on the inevitability of a US/AA "UCT" bandwagon.The fact AMR filed with $4.1 billion negates the need for a DIP financier which closes one avenue of opportunity for Herr Parker to make his glorious return to the Reich Chancellery.

Not saying Parker couldn't wow the creditors with a mega offer, but it would have to be just that.

No use worrying about it, if it happens, it happens and we're along for the ride no matter what.

 

[diamondcutter]

Really? If 3 people drive to Fla the savings are phenomenal. No luggage fees.

So 3 of you can drive from Bos to mia and return on a cheap ticket . With gas at 3.50 a gallon plus the time it takes ,are u kiddin me . I call BS. Again how much time would it take you?

 

[diamondcutter]

Really? If 3 people drive to Fla the savings are phenomenal. No luggage fees.

So 3 of you can drive from Bos to mia and return on a cheap ticket . With gas at 3.50 a gallon plus the time it takes ,are u kiddin me . I call BS. Again how much time would it take you?

 

[WorldTraveler]

my motive for arguing against a US acquisition of AA is the same as why I have been critical of AA for quite some time - because it isn't in the best interest of AA people or the industry.
Analysts expect AA to reduce capacity by 10% or more so the argument about reducing capacity through mergers doesn't exactly compete... besides, if you might remember, the whole argument that SUNK the DL-US deal was Parker's jolly claims that he would cut capacity and EVERYONE would be better off because of it - except the non-union DL people who knew better than to believe that they would be fairly treated in a merger... and the rest, they say, is history, with US having lost its opportunity.
.
The simple fact is that US CANNOT offer any value to AA - the deal is simply about saving US' butt and anyone with half a brain can see that. There is no need to sugarcoat that reality.
.
Combined with the fact that creditors are RISK AVERSIVE and a US acquisition is really not something they want, especially since the only way Parker could make it work since US has the lowest market capitalization and now the most stressed balance sheet is to borrow more money.
.
When you throw in stuff like a host of analysts advocating a "merger" which is really a takeover of AA as if it came right out of US corporate communications (which it did) and then you have "goofs" like an American route map showing PHX, CLT, PHL as hubs, it is pretty obvious that Parker is pulling out all of his PR tools to try and convince the sheep that he is the kind shepherd.
.
Not to worry, little children. There are wiser people who see the fox and know full well that the only desire is to kill and destroy for one's personal benefit.
.
The hooplah over US will fail and Parker will be forced to confront the reality that US - not AA - is indeed the weakest link in the industry and is the "one too many" in the industry that should be eliminated.
.
As with everything, the truth WILL COME OUT>

 

[wings396]

I also wish the people of AA good luck, alone after restructuring, or combined with US in some configuration.

I'm noticing the increasingly strident tone of WT's posts, with emotional buzzwords and name calling, and it does seem that this emotionalism detracts from what otherwise may be some valid points. There's definitely an extreme bias against US visible, which colors one's perspective.

I doubt that this BK plan is being done without input and planning of Doug Parker, and suggest this is an example of the same sort of pre planning and BK filing done by Delta and Northwest when they filed at basically the same time and ended up wed together.

IF Doug Parker is involved in any way, then I'm sure Jerry Glass has been taking a red pencil to all of AA's CBA's and advising Doug what cuts must be made and how to screw labor. He's excellent at what he does, and the companies that hire him get major results.

I am no fan of US management, but if one steps back and observes what has taken place at US since 2005, it can appear that this was the endgame all along and the holding pattern and cheapness of US was designed to keep costs at an absolute minimum and go for the big play when the opportunity presents itself.

The pilot mess at US is in my opinion a non factor due to the sheer numbers that APA has will leave USAPA a bad memory. And I would not be surprised if Doug opens his wallet just a bit to buy labor peace as he proposed to do in the Delta takeover attempt. For those employees that survive at each carrier, they may actually see improvements in their CBA's. (perhaps not from current AA rates, but definitely from the BK rates that will be imposed upon AA labor) and from the current BK era concessions still being suffered through at US.

I am no cheerleader for mergers. Employees really take a hit, with layoffs, relocations, etc. But I am leaning toward thinking this is a good idea for both carriers, and it's not because I have any bias toward US. It does make sense on many levels and Doug and his team are not stupid people nor idiots. They are not necessarily passenger friendly or employee friendly, but I suspect they learned a lot from the failed Delta takeover, and if they choose to make a play, it will be well designed and thought out, and ultimately they will control AA. There will be reductions and job loss and mine may be one of those, nothing is secure, but in my opinion a merger would offer the best possibility of the most employees of the two carriers having a job in five years. If it does not happen, I think perhaps US looks at linking up with Jet Blue and Alaska, or maybe all of these combine in the new AA. It's a crazy world.

I suspect PHX will eventually resemble PIT, a once bustling hq and hub, greatly reduced headcount and flights. HQ would most likely be DFW, (but don't rule out CLT making an aggressive and incentive laden bid) and the AA name survives.

As dysfunctional and screwed up as US is, (and it really is), it's not the worst place in the world to work, and after the dust settled, I believe AA people and US people would find they have more in common than they thought. It's the trauma of BK and the emotional upheaval that AA people are going to experience as they go through the process that will be most disturbing.

Again, I'm not pro merger or wanting this to necessarily happen, but simply want to offer a new perspective. If US and AA remain apart, I'm more than happy to continue with my mega seniority intact as long as the doors remain open.

Excellent post, and spot on as well.....

 

[wings396]

my motive for arguing against a US acquisition of AA is the same as why I have been critical of AA for quite some time - because it isn't in the best interest of AA people or the industry.
Analysts expect AA to reduce capacity by 10% or more so the argument about reducing capacity through mergers doesn't exactly compete... besides, if you might remember, the whole argument that SUNK the DL-US deal was Parker's jolly claims that he would cut capacity and EVERYONE would be better off because of it - except the non-union DL people who knew better than to believe that they would be fairly treated in a merger... and the rest, they say, is history, with US having lost its opportunity.
.
The simple fact is that US CANNOT offer any value to AA - the deal is simply about saving US' butt and anyone with half a brain can see that. There is no need to sugarcoat that reality.
.
Combined with the fact that creditors are RISK AVERSIVE and a US acquisition is really not something they want, especially since the only way Parker could make it work since US has the lowest market capitalization and now the most stressed balance sheet is to borrow more money.
.
When you throw in stuff like a host of analysts advocating a "merger" which is really a takeover of AA as if it came right out of US corporate communications (which it did) and then you have "goofs" like an American route map showing PHX, CLT, PHL as hubs, it is pretty obvious that Parker is pulling out all of his PR tools to try and convince the sheep that he is the kind shepherd.


I too have noticed that you have really "Stepped-Up" your anti-US thoughts. Could it be that you are concerned that if AA/US combine that it could give "Your Delta" a run for their money by building up the CLT Hub?
In the past I had enjoyed some of your informational posts, but it looks like that is coming to an end.
What does or doesn't happen here is out of your hands as well as everyone else that posts their thoughts here.
.
Not to worry, little children. There are wiser people who see the fox and know full well that the only desire is to kill and destroy for one's personal benefit.
.
The hooplah over US will fail and Parker will be forced to confront the reality that US - not AA - is indeed the weakest link in the industry and is the "one too many" in the industry that should be eliminated.
.
As with everything, the truth WILL COME OUT>

 

[signals]

The Northeast doesn't revolve around Boston, NYC or even Philly in my world. But let's pretend it does...

My side of the Northeast to FLA via cheapest is B6. $276 per person one way! Although not etched in stone the 276X3=$828. 828X2=1656.
Driving avoids the airport delays, the stress, the mercy of the unknown-delays, cancellations, pax a-holes, airport societies, and of course the priceless TSA experience

So no matter how much a $1656 airfare might save three travellers, avoiding airport insanity is priceless

 

[wings396]

I too have noticed that you have really "Stepped-Up" your anti-US thoughts. Could it be that you are concerned that if AA/US combine that it could give "Your Delta" a run for their money by building up the CLT Hub?
In the past I had enjoyed some of your informational posts, but it looks like that is coming to an end.
What does or doesn't happen here is out of your hands as well as everyone else that posts their thoughts here.

 

[diamondcutter]

The simple reason I continue to argue the point is to show how incredibly stupid the idea is and to show how easily people with a pen can be bought off by Doug Parker in his attempt to cure the ails of US, who Parker himself has said is not viable long term in its present form.
I speak the truth and no one w/ even 1/2 of a brain could believe that this transaction makes any sense or could pass the scrutiny that is involved in a major transaction - financially or from the standpoint of regulators.

Where do I even begin…. People who call themselves analyst who post the kind of stuff that this article contains and then expect us to believe they know anything about the industry or the players involved… but let me pull out a few gems from the article:

“This would look more like American than US Airways when all was said and done. In fact, I’m sure it would still be called American and you’d probably still see the headquarters in Dallas. If this sounds similar to when US Airways tried to take over Delta, it is. We just never got to see what they could have done with Delta.”
BS… the combined airline (if it even has a chance) will be run from PHX by the same idiots… the notion that US is going to assume AA’s corporate identity is pure fantasy. The only fact is that it WILL be called AA because the US name has no brand value in comparison….because US mgmt has taken a bear bones approach to airline service. Mind you, AA has given up a huge amount of revenue because it hasn’t invested in its product, but to somehow think that US even knows the investments that need to be made in products and services and even has the willingness to invest in what it takes to run an airline that can harness the kind of customer that has built AA is not even rational.
“In the southeast, the airline could get Charlotte and Miami to play off each other. Miami gets more of the Latin/Caribbean flying that it excels at supporting and Charlotte continues to be the only true competitor to Atlanta for southeast US flying. Those two hubs can work very well together.”
In other words, US doesn’t really have a viable southeast/Latin gateway so let’s steal one that works and then try to more effectively compete against DL in ATL – something which current stats show that US doesn’t really do well at… that is why markets throughout the SE that were formerly strong US markets are now DL strength markets. US wants the network bulk to make the one thing they do have of value (Charlotte) work against DL who US really hasn’t been very successful at competing with.
“Then there’s New York, where the biggest changes may occur. American is not a truly major competitor in New York anymore. I would actually suggest that American keep the slots needed for major business destinations, but then sell off the rest to JetBlue and enter into a stronger partnership. This is kind of funny, because had US Airways not just traded its La Guardia slots, it might be a different story.”
REALLY? You want to create a merger that should solve all of AA’s problems but which still couldn’t allow it to compete against its two largest network competitors so you SELL the crown jewels to a DOMESTIC COMPETITOR (make no mistake, B6 IS and will ALWAYS BE a competitor – AA CANNOT share revenue with another US domestic airline that it does not own). Can we have the endorsement of the business school where this fool got his education – so we can all fire its grads?
“A team with a track record like the current US Airways team will find plenty of money pouring in from the outside to help its cause, and that’s huge”
Then pray tell why doesn’t US have money washing onto its doorstep now to facilitate the use of the resources it does have? TO somehow think that acquiring AA will turn around US’ fortunes can only come from people who have had way too much to drink and who aren’t smoking the stuff marketed by RJ Reynolds.
There is no justifiable reason to believe US can add anything to value to AA or AMR and the more these idiots try to talk it up, the more empty their arguments become.

Leave your emotions and answer the question .. Is consolidation good for the industry? Do I want a meger ? No. Three mega carriers were predicted back in 85. And yes we get it you hate usairways . You seem to know everything it shows in your arrogance so can u answer the above question ?

 

[conniegirl]

my motive for arguing against a US acquisition of AA is the same as why I have been critical of AA for quite some time - because it isn't in the best interest of AA people or the industry.
Analysts expect AA to reduce capacity by 10% or more so the argument about reducing capacity through mergers doesn't exactly compete... besides, if you might remember, the whole argument that SUNK the DL-US deal was Parker's jolly claims that he would cut capacity and EVERYONE would be better off because of it - except the non-union DL people who knew better than to believe that they would be fairly treated in a merger... and the rest, they say, is history, with US having lost its opportunity.
.
The simple fact is that US CANNOT offer any value to AA - the deal is simply about saving US' butt and anyone with half a brain can see that. There is no need to sugarcoat that reality.
.
Combined with the fact that creditors are RISK AVERSIVE and a US acquisition is really not something they want, especially since the only way Parker could make it work since US has the lowest market capitalization and now the most stressed balance sheet is to borrow more money.
.
When you throw in stuff like a host of analysts advocating a "merger" which is really a takeover of AA as if it came right out of US corporate communications (which it did) and then you have "goofs" like an American route map showing PHX, CLT, PHL as hubs, it is pretty obvious that Parker is pulling out all of his PR tools to try and convince the sheep that he is the kind shepherd.
.
Not to worry, little children. There are wiser people who see the fox and know full well that the only desire is to kill and destroy for one's personal benefit.
.
The hooplah over US will fail and Parker will be forced to confront the reality that US - not AA - is indeed the weakest link in the industry and is the "one too many" in the industry that should be eliminated.
.
As with everything, the truth WILL COME OUT>

Take a deep breath and understand something that is as true as anything you'll ever experience....you're along for the ride. You now have no control over your future. All those AA folk who told us TWA people that we "should have done something if we didn't like the AA acquisition", "if you didn't like it why didn't you quit and go elsewhere", "be grateful you have a job" will now understand that the big boys have all the marbles and you will either: a) accept it and hopefully keep your job B) not accept it and perhaps look for other employment. The game is over...filing for Bankruptcy is the final pawn in American's game and they truly don't care whether you like US Air or Air Podunk. It is now out of your hands and into the hands of the lawyers and judges and ultimately those managment folk that have enough power to remain.

 

[The Phantom]

Bring on the merger!!!! no more TWU at last. This is the wave of the future. Just embrace it and enjoy the ride.

 

[diamondcutter]

my motive for arguing against a US acquisition of AA is the same as why I have been critical of AA for quite some time - because it isn't in the best interest of AA people or the industry.
Analysts expect AA to reduce capacity by 10% or more so the argument about reducing capacity through mergers doesn't exactly compete... besides, if you might remember, the whole argument that SUNK the DL-US deal was Parker's jolly claims that he would cut capacity and EVERYONE would be better off because of it - except the non-union DL people who knew better than to believe that they would be fairly treated in a merger... and the rest, they say, is history, with US having lost its opportunity.
.
The simple fact is that US CANNOT offer any value to AA - the deal is simply about saving US' butt and anyone with half a brain can see that. There is no need to sugarcoat that reality.
.
Combined with the fact that creditors are RISK AVERSIVE and a US acquisition is really not something they want, especially since the only way Parker could make it work since US has the lowest market capitalization and now the most stressed balance sheet is to borrow more money.
.
When you throw in stuff like a host of analysts advocating a "merger" which is really a takeover of AA as if it came right out of US corporate communications (which it did) and then you have "goofs" like an American route map showing PHX, CLT, PHL as hubs, it is pretty obvious that Parker is pulling out all of his PR tools to try and convince the sheep that he is the kind shepherd.
.
Not to worry, little children. There are wiser people who see the fox and know full well that the only desire is to kill and destroy for one's personal benefit.
.
The hooplah over US will fail and Parker will be forced to confront the reality that US - not AA - is indeed the weakest link in the industry and is the "one too many" in the industry that should be eliminated.
.
As with everything, the truth WILL COME OUT>

Once again u have to bash usairways ... U and I both know more than 10% would be cut. So when did you get to be friends with the judge and all the creditors? Please answer

 

[KILOFINAL]

As others have said, there is no strategic value in combining US Airways and AA. We have overcapacity in north america. Someone told me the other day that if what I say is true, how do you explain the high loadfactors? Well, IMO, loadfactors have been decent because people have turned their homes into ATM machines and are spending money they cant really afford.

We have overcapacity and we need consolidation in the market. We also have overcapacity on the north atlantic sector between the U.K and america.