AA and US merger?

[ggiby]

You could be right about that. Who knows? One thing we do know is that AA is in Chapter 11, and that today you aren't the same company you were 48 hours ago. Your fate is in the hands of a judge. Mr. Horton is the judge's lieutenant and you are the infantry. You march to the general's orders now. You really need to grab hold of your new reality now. You, I, none of us knows what's going to happen in the future, and with that said I wish you the very best because I've been there.

unfortunately
The Judge usually does what the company asks for.... and it is never, ever good for the employees. Remember, the workers are the the second or third major expense for companies.
So that means benefits and salaries will be slashed, along with pension plans. Welcome to the PBGC folks. Sorry it really stinks. Good luck.

I for one hope there will be a merger..... gives us all job security. We don't want another airline go Chapt 7, to the grave with TWA and others.

IMHO

 

[WorldTraveler]

You are so wrong ..... the government with the support of people like you have trashed this industry as a career .... I just attended a company class were they pointed out that an airline ticket in 1946 was only 20 bucks cheaper than the same ticket today. Compare that to today's price for everything else ....... how do the airlines give you your cheap ### ticket .... we pay for it, it's out of our pockets .... how do the airlines stay in business .... through BK court, with the governments blessing.

That's okay, your turns coming when the middle-class is gone and the entire economy comes crashing down around you ..... and your money is worthless. It's coming! Bud!

I don't know how you have logically connect the pieces of this argument that you have connected but I said nothing about the government or the middle class. I said simply that AA employees and its creditors will be better off creating their own plan of reorganization and executing against it. PERIOD.
That means US isn't a part of it...
What that also means is that this little grand merger that Dougie would like to fund can only happen if he takes on MORE DEBT - which means LESS pay for employees so the banks can instead make money.
In fact, it is PRO-WORKER for AA to remain independent than for them to be bought by someone else who has to finance the transaction and pay lawyers and lobbyists to make it all work.
And you still can't deny that US employees are some of the lowest paid airline employees in the industry.
Again, tell me what AA employees and creditors gain by being bought out by the weakest, lowest paying airline in the industry - and when you can answer that question then perhaps you can understand that the only people who keep talking about a US/AA merger (excuse me takeover) are those people who want to subject AA people to another raping - as if by the 3rd time, it shouldn't hurt anymore. (for anyone who is counting, the first "offense happened in 2003, #2 is now, and #3 would be at the hands of US and its employees who want to transfer AA's crown jewels to US - at AA employees' expense).

 

[Mr Eagle]

I don't know how you have logically connect the pieces of this argument that you have connected but I said nothing about the government or the middle class. I said simply that AA employees and its creditors will be better off creating their own plan of reorganization and executing against it. PERIOD.
That means US isn't a part of it...
What that also means is that this little grand merger that Dougie would like to fund can only happen if he takes on MORE DEBT - which means LESS pay for employees so the banks can instead make money.
In fact, it is PRO-WORKER for AA to remain independent than for them to be bought by someone else who has to finance the transaction and pay lawyers and lobbyists to make it all work.
And you still can't deny that US employees are some of the lowest paid airline employees in the industry.
Again, tell me what AA employees and creditors gain by being bought out by the weakest, lowest paying airline in the industry - and when you can answer that question then perhaps you can understand that the only people who keep talking about a US/AA merger (excuse me takeover) are those people who want to subject AA people to another raping - as if by the 3rd time, it shouldn't hurt anymore. (for anyone who is counting, the first "offense happened in 2003, #2 is now, and #3 would be at the hands of US and its employees who want to transfer AA's crown jewels to US - at AA employees' expense).

Is This Not What AA Did To The TWA People, Staple Them to the Bottom of Seniority list Close TWA Stations ETC:? Just a Question?

 

[signals]

Although I tend to agree with WT's info on the AMR BK situation, and am totally against a merger I consider a disaster with US, some make sense as to why this merger would be a golden opportunity for both airlines.

Let's face it, I wouldn't know anything about airline BKs, but I'm learning a lot! What do you believe? Let me run this by all you!

If you check the Nov. 30 entry it goes hand-in-hand with this.

 

[DCaf]

I don't know how you have logically connect the pieces of this argument that you have connected but I said nothing about the government or the middle class. I said simply that AA employees and its creditors will be better off creating their own plan of reorganization and executing against it. PERIOD.
That means US isn't a part of it...
What that also means is that this little grand merger that Dougie would like to fund can only happen if he takes on MORE DEBT - which means LESS pay for employees so the banks can instead make money.
In fact, it is PRO-WORKER for AA to remain independent than for them to be bought by someone else who has to finance the transaction and pay lawyers and lobbyists to make it all work.
And you still can't deny that US employees are some of the lowest paid airline employees in the industry.
Again, tell me what AA employees and creditors gain by being bought out by the weakest, lowest paying airline in the industry - and when you can answer that question then perhaps you can understand that the only people who keep talking about a US/AA merger (excuse me takeover) are those people who want to subject AA people to another raping - as if by the 3rd time, it shouldn't hurt anymore. (for anyone who is counting, the first "offense happened in 2003, #2 is now, and #3 would be at the hands of US and its employees who want to transfer AA's crown jewels to US - at AA employees' expense).

I'm trying to figure Delta's main mouthpiece's interest in all this. Is WT still insulted by an attempted purchase of DL a few years ago? Does DL have designs on AA? Would a AA/US merger leapfrog past Delta in size?
Your tirade I cite above is a little more emotional than normal for you. Same amount of condescension though.

I wish you AA guys good luck.

 

[WorldTraveler]

The simple reason I continue to argue the point is to show how incredibly stupid the idea is and to show how easily people with a pen can be bought off by Doug Parker in his attempt to cure the ails of US, who Parker himself has said is not viable long term in its present form.
I speak the truth and no one w/ even 1/2 of a brain could believe that this transaction makes any sense or could pass the scrutiny that is involved in a major transaction - financially or from the standpoint of regulators.

Where do I even begin…. People who call themselves analyst who post the kind of stuff that this article contains and then expect us to believe they know anything about the industry or the players involved… but let me pull out a few gems from the article:

“This would look more like American than US Airways when all was said and done. In fact, I’m sure it would still be called American and you’d probably still see the headquarters in Dallas. If this sounds similar to when US Airways tried to take over Delta, it is. We just never got to see what they could have done with Delta.”
BS… the combined airline (if it even has a chance) will be run from PHX by the same idiots… the notion that US is going to assume AA’s corporate identity is pure fantasy. The only fact is that it WILL be called AA because the US name has no brand value in comparison….because US mgmt has taken a bear bones approach to airline service. Mind you, AA has given up a huge amount of revenue because it hasn’t invested in its product, but to somehow think that US even knows the investments that need to be made in products and services and even has the willingness to invest in what it takes to run an airline that can harness the kind of customer that has built AA is not even rational.
“In the southeast, the airline could get Charlotte and Miami to play off each other. Miami gets more of the Latin/Caribbean flying that it excels at supporting and Charlotte continues to be the only true competitor to Atlanta for southeast US flying. Those two hubs can work very well together.”
In other words, US doesn’t really have a viable southeast/Latin gateway so let’s steal one that works and then try to more effectively compete against DL in ATL – something which current stats show that US doesn’t really do well at… that is why markets throughout the SE that were formerly strong US markets are now DL strength markets. US wants the network bulk to make the one thing they do have of value (Charlotte) work against DL who US really hasn’t been very successful at competing with.
“Then there’s New York, where the biggest changes may occur. American is not a truly major competitor in New York anymore. I would actually suggest that American keep the slots needed for major business destinations, but then sell off the rest to JetBlue and enter into a stronger partnership. This is kind of funny, because had US Airways not just traded its La Guardia slots, it might be a different story.”
REALLY? You want to create a merger that should solve all of AA’s problems but which still couldn’t allow it to compete against its two largest network competitors so you SELL the crown jewels to a DOMESTIC COMPETITOR (make no mistake, B6 IS and will ALWAYS BE a competitor – AA CANNOT share revenue with another US domestic airline that it does not own). Can we have the endorsement of the business school where this fool got his education – so we can all fire its grads?
“A team with a track record like the current US Airways team will find plenty of money pouring in from the outside to help its cause, and that’s huge”
Then pray tell why doesn’t US have money washing onto its doorstep now to facilitate the use of the resources it does have? TO somehow think that acquiring AA will turn around US’ fortunes can only come from people who have had way too much to drink and who aren’t smoking the stuff marketed by RJ Reynolds.
There is no justifiable reason to believe US can add anything to value to AA or AMR and the more these idiots try to talk it up, the more empty their arguments become.

 

[diamondcutter]

Consolidation takes seats out which drives up the ticket price and that would be a win win if there were only 3 mega carriers

 

[usa1]

Consolidation takes seats out which drives up the ticket price and that would be a win win if there were only 3 mega carriers

Yepper ... and WT will start paying Aviation workers a fair price for his tickets! Delta will raise prices also bud!

 

[diamondcutter]

Bingo ... It's cheaper to fly than drive to FLA from the northeast .... Hmmm why is that!!! Could it be to many seats flying around.

 

[Black Magic]

Don't mind the delta spokesman Worldtraveler. He is just scared that if a merger between US/AA happens American with finally have a southest hub (clt) to compete with Delta.

 

[Black Magic]

Consolidation takes seats out which drives up the ticket price and that would be a win win if there were only 3 mega carriers

Bingo that is what its all about here. Consolidation means less carriers to compete with, which equals higher ticket fares and more money for wages for ALL the airlines. The airlines are trying to take back the industry, it benefits all the carriers really.

 

[diamondcutter]

Again bingo

 

[signals]

The simple reason I continue to argue the point is to show how incredibly stupid the idea is and to show how easily people with a pen can be bought off by Doug Parker in his attempt to cure the ails of US, who Parker himself has said is not viable long term in its present form.
I speak the truth and no one w/ even 1/2 of a brain could believe that this transaction makes any sense or could pass the scrutiny that is involved in a major transaction - financially or from the standpoint of regulators.

Where do I even begin…. People who call themselves analyst who post the kind of stuff that this article contains and then expect us to believe they know anything about the industry or the players involved… but let me pull out a few gems from the article:

“This would look more like American than US Airways when all was said and done. In fact, I’m sure it would still be called American and you’d probably still see the headquarters in Dallas. If this sounds similar to when US Airways tried to take over Delta, it is. We just never got to see what they could have done with Delta.”
BS… the combined airline (if it even has a chance) will be run from PHX by the same idiots… the notion that US is going to assume AA’s corporate identity is pure fantasy. The only fact is that it WILL be called AA because the US name has no brand value in comparison….because US mgmt has taken a bear bones approach to airline service. Mind you, AA has given up a huge amount of revenue because it hasn’t invested in its product, but to somehow think that US even knows the investments that need to be made in products and services and even has the willingness to invest in what it takes to run an airline that can harness the kind of customer that has built AA is not even rational.
“In the southeast, the airline could get Charlotte and Miami to play off each other. Miami gets more of the Latin/Caribbean flying that it excels at supporting and Charlotte continues to be the only true competitor to Atlanta for southeast US flying. Those two hubs can work very well together.”
In other words, US doesn’t really have a viable southeast/Latin gateway so let’s steal one that works and then try to more effectively compete against DL in ATL – something which current stats show that US doesn’t really do well at… that is why markets throughout the SE that were formerly strong US markets are now DL strength markets. US wants the network bulk to make the one thing they do have of value (Charlotte) work against DL who US really hasn’t been very successful at competing with.
“Then there’s New York, where the biggest changes may occur. American is not a truly major competitor in New York anymore. I would actually suggest that American keep the slots needed for major business destinations, but then sell off the rest to JetBlue and enter into a stronger partnership. This is kind of funny, because had US Airways not just traded its La Guardia slots, it might be a different story.”
REALLY? You want to create a merger that should solve all of AA’s problems but which still couldn’t allow it to compete against its two largest network competitors so you SELL the crown jewels to a DOMESTIC COMPETITOR (make no mistake, B6 IS and will ALWAYS BE a competitor – AA CANNOT share revenue with another US domestic airline that it does not own). Can we have the endorsement of the business school where this fool got his education – so we can all fire its grads?
“A team with a track record like the current US Airways team will find plenty of money pouring in from the outside to help its cause, and that’s huge”
Then pray tell why doesn’t US have money washing onto its doorstep now to facilitate the use of the resources it does have? TO somehow think that acquiring AA will turn around US’ fortunes can only come from people who have had way too much to drink and who aren’t smoking the stuff marketed by RJ Reynolds.
There is no justifiable reason to believe US can add anything to value to AA or AMR and the more these idiots try to talk it up, the more empty their arguments become.

Keep in mind WT that for ONCE, I agree with you. So don't shoot the messanger. B)

 

[Vortilon]

I wonder how many AA employees are over on the US Air BB talking about what a good deal merging with US Air would be? World Traveler is right, the thought of merging with a weak airline that pays it's employees chump change isn't all that appealing. For the love of all things big and small, why don't you merger types give it a rest. <_<

 

[Dilligas]

Your tirade I cite above is a little more emotional than normal for you. Same amount of condescension though.

I wish you AA guys good luck.

I also wish the people of AA good luck, alone after restructuring, or combined with US in some configuration.

I'm noticing the increasingly strident tone of WT's posts, with emotional buzzwords and name calling, and it does seem that this emotionalism detracts from what otherwise may be some valid points. There's definitely an extreme bias against US visible, which colors one's perspective.

I doubt that this BK plan is being done without input and planning of Doug Parker, and suggest this is an example of the same sort of pre planning and BK filing done by Delta and Northwest when they filed at basically the same time and ended up wed together.

IF Doug Parker is involved in any way, then I'm sure Jerry Glass has been taking a red pencil to all of AA's CBA's and advising Doug what cuts must be made and how to screw labor. He's excellent at what he does, and the companies that hire him get major results.

I am no fan of US management, but if one steps back and observes what has taken place at US since 2005, it can appear that this was the endgame all along and the holding pattern and cheapness of US was designed to keep costs at an absolute minimum and go for the big play when the opportunity presents itself.

The pilot mess at US is in my opinion a non factor due to the sheer numbers that APA has will leave USAPA a bad memory. And I would not be surprised if Doug opens his wallet just a bit to buy labor peace as he proposed to do in the Delta takeover attempt. For those employees that survive at each carrier, they may actually see improvements in their CBA's. (perhaps not from current AA rates, but definitely from the BK rates that will be imposed upon AA labor) and from the current BK era concessions still being suffered through at US.

I am no cheerleader for mergers. Employees really take a hit, with layoffs, relocations, etc. But I am leaning toward thinking this is a good idea for both carriers, and it's not because I have any bias toward US. It does make sense on many levels and Doug and his team are not stupid people nor idiots. They are not necessarily passenger friendly or employee friendly, but I suspect they learned a lot from the failed Delta takeover, and if they choose to make a play, it will be well designed and thought out, and ultimately they will control AA. There will be reductions and job loss and mine may be one of those, nothing is secure, but in my opinion a merger would offer the best possibility of the most employees of the two carriers having a job in five years. If it does not happen, I think perhaps US looks at linking up with Jet Blue and Alaska, or maybe all of these combine in the new AA. It's a crazy world.

I suspect PHX will eventually resemble PIT, a once bustling hq and hub, greatly reduced headcount and flights. HQ would most likely be DFW, (but don't rule out CLT making an aggressive and incentive laden bid) and the AA name survives.

As dysfunctional and screwed up as US is, (and it really is), it's not the worst place in the world to work, and after the dust settled, I believe AA people and US people would find they have more in common than they thought. It's the trauma of BK and the emotional upheaval that AA people are going to experience as they go through the process that will be most disturbing.

Again, I'm not pro merger or wanting this to necessarily happen, but simply want to offer a new perspective. If US and AA remain apart, I'm more than happy to continue with my mega seniority intact as long as the doors remain open.