AA and AA executives continue to get bad press

[FWAAA]

Once again you're wrong.

Nope. I'm right. You got a pay raise. Like you said:

My dollar per hour was increased BUT archaic work rules had me flying more days for less pay so I actually made less. Add in the loss of a 14% 401K contribution, the cost of AA's medical insurance, (ours was free), and even the cost of travel, and we did not begin to break even. Giving up SCOPE and Allegheny-Mohawk was a provision of AA's orchestrated BK. Got rid of the LPPs , vendor contracts, and Ichan ticket deal.

Now THAT's funny! Complaining about "archaic work rules?" You sound like one of those conservative white-bread union haters.

So you had to actually work more. Sorry bout that. Sounds like Ichan wasn't the only one bleeding TWA. Apparently the FAs had a cushy contract. Had AA not bought the assets and offered employment to the employees, there'd be no more STL paycheck unless you migrated to one of the really spectacular "other opportunities" that airline employees love to brag about.

You don't get to cry "oh woe is me" and use 9-11 to keep screwing your employees. That is offensive and shameful for a Company who lost so many good people. AA is the entity that has used 9-11.

September 11 destroyed AA's revenue. Don't give a damn whether you find that fact offensive. It happened. AA had to furlough over 20,000 good people. Nevertheless, AA borrowed billions of dollars in its wake, some of which was paid to the non-furloughed employees prior to the concessions (May, 2003). And AA kept the STL hub until Nov. 2003, when it became apparent that continued cost cutting was necessary.

I'm very sorry that the horrific events of September 11, 2001 put the final nail in the TWA coffin. As I have previously posted, I'm still surprised that it didn't kill AA and a few other airlines. But much damage was done. It's a shame so many good people had to be kicked to the curb. I just think you and many others are pointing fingers at the wrong guilty party. 19 worthless pieces of garbage killed your career, not Don Carty and not the APFA and not American Airlines. I'm angry about it, too. I just don't blame American Airlines and its employees. Your rage may vary.

 

[aafsc]

<_< --- You know aa! If what you say is true, than why did AA buy TWA? If in fact there was no value there, why did they do it? If there is anything I've learned working for AA for this short five+ years, it's they don't do anything that will not profit, or advance them, in some way! Even you seemed to agree on that point! Was it just Carty's ego to become number one? Or was there something else there?---- Humm!---- If there was nothing there, way did AA take on all that debt you keep talking about?---- I know! To "save" TWA, and all it's employees! Yea! That must be it!----

AA purchased TWA's assets in a knee jerk reaction to the proposed US/UA merger. But part of it was Carty's ego. We agree that AA does everything in the name of profit. Even though senior AA management has a much better track record than the managements of the other legacies and gets it right most of the time, they have indeed made some costly blunders such as:

1. Under the Crandall era: Not buying Pan Ams Pacific routes, buying Air Cal, and the Confirm reservation system that never come to fruition which had to be written off for about $150 million IIRC.

2. Under the Carty era: The TWA transaction, buying Reno Air, More room in Coach, and the executive retention bonuses.

3. Under Arpey (so far): The stock bonuses.

 

[nbmcg01]

Nope. I'm right. You got a pay raise. Like you said:
Now THAT's funny! Complaining about "archaic work rules?" You sound like one of those conservative white-bread union haters.

So you had to actually work more. Sorry bout that. Sounds like Ichan wasn't the only one bleeding TWA. Apparently the FAs had a cushy contract. Had AA not bought the assets and offered employment to the employees, there'd be no more STL paycheck unless you migrated to one of the really spectacular "other opportunities" that airline employees love to brag about.
September 11 destroyed AA's revenue. Don't give a damn whether you find that fact offensive. It happened. AA had to furlough over 20,000 good people. Nevertheless, AA borrowed billions of dollars in its wake, some of which was paid to the non-furloughed employees prior to the concessions (May, 2003). And AA kept the STL hub until Nov. 2003, when it became apparent that continued cost cutting was necessary.

I'm very sorry that the horrific events of September 11, 2001 put the final nail in the TWA coffin. As I have previously posted, I'm still surprised that it didn't kill AA and a few other airlines. But much damage was done. It's a shame so many good people had to be kicked to the curb. I just think you and many others are pointing fingers at the wrong guilty party. 19 worthless pieces of garbage killed your career, not Don Carty and not the APFA and not American Airlines. I'm angry about it, too. I just don't blame American Airlines and its employees. Your rage may vary.

Are you kidding? I've been a union advocate all of my adult life. The only time I wasn't a rep was during the IAMs reign of terror. Not cushy, but a cost and quality of life effective contract. I flew 8 and 9 hour turns. Our most senior trip was a 10 hour turn. LAX-IAD-LAX. Bottom line, I worked more days to accomplish the same flight hours. Poor mannpower utilization. And finally, the minute the signatures appeared on the dotted line, we were ALL AA employees. What I find offensive is AA still trying to play the 9-11 card to win concessions while rewarding selected executives who are already well compensated for doing nothing out of the ordinary, ie, their jobs. I don't think anyone feels that is a proper expenditure of concessionary dollars. As a full fare customer, I'm angry and as a retired employee, I'm embarrassed.

 

[TWAnr]

Nope. I'm right. You got a pay raise. Like you said:
Now THAT's funny! Complaining about "archaic work rules?" You sound like one of those conservative white-bread union haters.

So you had to actually work more. Sorry bout that. Sounds like Ichan wasn't the only one bleeding TWA. Apparently the FAs had a cushy contract.

Nice try, but you cannot be more wrong. Let me try to explain this to you very slowly and simply.

Flight attendants are paid only for block hours, from the time that the airplanes' doors close to the time that they open. Time between flights is off the clock, even if one is thousands of miles away from base. At American, due to inefficient scheduling and archaic work rules, flight attendants spend a lot more time at airports and away from their domicile, off the clock, for each paid hour than they did at TWA. Thus, at TWA the flight attendants were able to put in more paid hours on the job while spending fewer days and hours at work. The bottom line is that even with a lower hourly rate, most earned more at TWA, than at AA, while spending less time away from home.

Capish?

 

[FRMR12B]

<_< --- You know aa! If what you say is true, than why did AA buy TWA? If in fact there was no value there, why did they do it? If there is anything I've learned working for AA for this short five+ years, it's they don't do anything that will not profit, or advance them, in some way! Even you seemed to agree on that point! Was it just Carty's ego to become number one? Or was there something else there?---- Humm!---- If there was nothing there, way did AA take on all that debt you keep talking about?---- I know! To "save" TWA, and all it's employees! Yea! That must be it!----

Two Great Airlines One Great Future

Thats why

 

[MCI transplant]

AA purchased TWA's assets in a knee jerk reaction to the proposed US/UA merger. But part of it was Carty's ego. We agree that AA does everything in the name of profit. Even though senior AA management has a much better track record than the managements of the other legacies and gets it right most of the time, they have indeed made some costly blunders such as:

1. Under the Crandall era: Not buying Pan Ams Pacific routes, buying Air Cal, and the Confirm reservation system that never come to fruition which had to be written off for about $150 million IIRC.

2. Under the Carty era: The TWA transaction, buying Reno Air, More room in Coach, and the executive retention bonuses.

3. Under Arpey (so far): The stock bonuses.

<_< ---Again aa, you're trying to rewriter history! "knee jerk"? No way! AA demanded TWA go into bankruptcy as a "condition of sale"! Carty and AA had orchestrated this deal for at least a year ""before" Compton took TWA into bankruptcy! (Some say longer!) The purpose, to kill Icahn's ticket deal, and drive TWA's stock down to zero!---- This was no "Knee jerk" by any stretch of the imagination! But if you insist on calling it that, go right ahead!

 

[777 fixer]

<_< ---Again aa, you're trying to rewriter history! "knee jerk"? No way! AA demanded TWA go into bankruptcy as a "condition of sale"! Carty and AA had orchestrated this deal for at least a year ""before" Compton took TWA into bankruptcy! (Some say longer!) The purpose, to kill Icahn's ticket deal, and drive TWA's stock down to zero!---- This was no "Knee jerk" by any stretch of the imagination! But if you insist on calling it that, go right ahead!

Again MCI you seem to be rewriting history without examining the facts as they stand. You almost make it sound like TWA was a financially viable airline and that the employees were the victim of some vast conspiracy. However the facts say otherwise.

In spring 2000 TWA retained the investment banker firm Rothschild Inc to address TWA's financial condition. It was determined by both TWA and Rothschild that the airline could no longer continue as an independent airline. Its only option was a merger. It approached Continental, Delta, United and US Air for a possible merger. None of these airlines were interested. At the same time there were plans in the works to obtain concessions from creditors and labor. Yes MCI you read that right, concessions. Unfortunately this would have only bought TWA time.

Now you claim that this "deal" was "orchestrated" a year before it happened. This is only partly true. AA and TWA had talks about a possible merger intermittently in the year prior. However TWA also approached other airlines as well.

Lets get down to the nitty gritty of all this. At the end of 2000 TWA had $100 million in cash. This was $50-100 million less than what they needed to survive the winter slow season. On January 10, 2001 TWA's cash balance was around $30 million. TWA needed $40 million to fund its operations the next day. You do the math. Here's something you seem to ignore. If TWA and AA had not come to an agreement guess what. TWA was going to file anyway. If you doubt any of what I have said I suggest you read this. Paragraph sixteen to be exact.





< http://www.deb.uscourts.gov/Opinions/2001/TWA_STAY.pdf >

 

[aafsc]

Another excellent post. Judge Walsh told it like it was; especially paragraph 16. The TWAers are so convinced of their conspiracy theory. They ignore all the hard factual evidence such as court documents and financial statements. TWA was dead, D-E-A-D, they were going to file regardless. And to think that they have the nerve to say that they should be above the nAAitves seniority wise at AA.

 

[FWAAA]

Another excellent post. Judge Walsh told it like it was; especially paragraph 16. The TWAers are so convinced of their conspiracy theory. They ignore all the hard factual evidence such as court documents and financial statements. TWA was dead, D-E-A-D, they were going to file regardless. And to think that they have the nerve to say that they should be above the nAAitves seniority wise at AA.

You guys are so crazy! Don't you know there were multiple parties ready, willing and able to lend/invest tens of millions of dollars in TWA? Don't you know that TWA had no pending cash crunch on Jan 10, 2001? Don't you know that TWA was "forced" into Ch 11 so that Carty could have his way with the TWA unions? B)

You guys are so unwilling to engage in outlandish conspiracy theories! Shame on you!

 

[MCI transplant]

You guys are so crazy! Don't you know there were multiple parties ready, willing and able to lend/invest tens of millions of dollars in TWA? Don't you know that TWA had no pending cash crunch on Jan 10, 2001? Don't you know that TWA was "forced" into Ch 11 so that Carty could have his way with the TWA unions? B)

You guys are so unwilling to engage in outlandish conspiracy theories! Shame on you!

<_< ---- FWAA, you can believe what you want. But what company hands out $100 bonus,@ month, @ employee, for "on time performance", right up to the time we went into bankruptcy?----- Is it just me, or does it sound like someone trying to deplete cash as fast as possible? Because that's just what happened!----

 

[eolesen]

---- FWAA, you can believe what you want. But what company hands out $100 bonus,@ month, @ employee, for "on time performance", right up to the time we went into bankruptcy?----- Is it just me, or does it sound like someone trying to deplete cash as fast as possible? Because that's just what happened!----

No, it sounded like a company desperate to have something to try and use the DOT stats for marketing purposes, because there wasn't much else to differentiate TW from the rest of the pack.

Assuming 15,000 employees, spending $1.5M per month to try and keep employees somewhat motivated is pretty cheap in the long run, especially when you consider that TW took that $100/month and then some out of your pockets during the second bankruptcy.

Plus, operating on-time probably saved at least that much in overtime avoidance and interrupted trip expenses for passengers and crew.

If TW really wanted to deplete cash, they could have paid off some of their pension underfunding...

 

[777 fixer]

<_< ---- FWAA, you can believe what you want. But what company hands out $100 bonus,@ month, @ employee, for "on time performance", right up to the time we went into bankruptcy?----- Is it just me, or does it sound like someone trying to deplete cash as fast as possible? Because that's just what happened!----

This little festival of denial of yours is getting a bit sad. Instead of believing conspiracy theories why don't you read up a bit.

< http://www.deb.uscourts.gov/Opinions/2001/TWA_STAY.pdf >

 

[MCI transplant]

This little festival of denial of yours is getting a bit sad. Instead of believing conspiracy theories why don't you read up a bit.

< http://www.deb.uscourts.gov/Opinions/2001/TWA_STAY.pdf >

<_< ----- Again fixer, you believe what you want. But what I'm talking about transpired before the bankrupcy. And from personal talks with former TWA Management types, there was more truth to what I've been saying than what AA would like to admit!---I'll just leave it at that.

 

[777 fixer]

<_< ----- Again fixer, you believe what you want. But what I'm talking about transpired before the bankrupcy. And from personal talks with former TWA Management types, there was more truth to what I've been saying than what AA would like to admit!---I'll just leave it at that.

So the only evidence you have is rumor and ineuendo. You're going to have to come up with something better than that. Quite frankly the facts say otherwise.

Fact: In the ten years prior to the merger TWA declared bankruptcy twice.

Fact: Fact in the late ninties while every other major airline was pulling in money hand over fist TWA was bleeding money.

Fact: The most profitable routes, London, were sold off.

Fact: TWA did not have contorl over their own pricing due to the ticket deal with Carl Ichan. Which by the way was not set to expire until late 2003.

Fact: Previous TWA "leadership" choose not to invest in the airline. Instead investing in things like hotels, resturant chains and a real estate company.

Now you can go on deluding yourself that if not for AA TWA would still be an indepnedent viable company. However the facts say otherwise.

< http://www.deb.uscourts.gov/Opinions/2001/TWA_STAY.pdf >