AA and AA executives continue to get bad press

[L1011Ret]

<_< ---- We've been there so many times! TWA was purposely taken into bankruptcy by Compton to expedite the TWA merger/buyout! Can I prove that? No! Can you prove otherwise? No!----- 😉

Yes you can prove it, it is in testimony of Compton before Congress. AA demanded TWA file Chapter 11 as a condition of purchase. TWA did not want to go into Chapter 11. Some posters here want to rewrite history to suite themselves so they can hold onto their biased hateful opinions.

 

[MCI transplant]

No, I don't think you're as dumb as a box of rocks, you bitter old man.

But AA and its unions had nothing to do with the death of TWA. AA spent three quarters of a billion in cash and assumed a couple billion of debt and lease obligations in an attempt to save it. And as we all know, less than five months later, AA's revenue fell thru the floor following the horrific terrorist attacks.

Yep, AA received over a hundred million dollars of the bailout money based on the market share of TWA, LLC. And AA kept the STL hub operating until November, 2003, despite the revisionist history fed to us by the perpetually disgruntled. AA spent and spent and spent.

TWA employees received raises the day they went to work for AA. For over two years, those employees (the ones not immediately furloughed following Sept. 2001) received paychecks larger than their TWA paychecks.

Your unions sold you out. AA's unions (especially the FAs) refused to integrate the TWA workgroups on the most favorable basis (DOH). And AA didn't grant perpetual recall rights to the FAs. It really is time to move on.

<_< FWAA---- First, I'm not bitter. An "ol man", maybe! But yes, I'm trying to put this all behind me. But for someone to try gloss over what really happened, that I can't set back for! Oh, the IAM was not blameless here I realize, but AA's Unions, and AA, didn't bend over back wards to make things right either! In the case of the F/A's, there could have been a compromise worked out, that would have been fair to all! That didn't happen! And poor AA! They were so Charitable in all this, they tried to "save" TWA!----Yea, right! If there's one thing I have learned about AA is "if it's not profitable to them," they won't do it! The bottom line here is that the accusation of TWA didn't quit turn out the way it was originally plan!----- That's a polite way of saying it went into the toilet quickly! But it did make AA "Number One"! And I've got to say AA's has been trying to deal with it, and I believe they realize that there is some value there also!---- Now this thing with the F/A's is dead wrong! You know it, I know it, and from what's been seen lately, the public is becoming more aware of it! We also know the right thing to do is simply write a letter of understanding with the F/A' Union to extend their recall rights!--- That would not only benefit the exTWA F/A's but the layed off nAAtives as well!!! Then, and only then, can we "really" put this all behind us!!!!

 

[aafsc]

Yes you can prove it, it is in testimony of Compton before Congress. AA demanded TWA file Chapter 11 as a condition of purchase. TWA did not want to go into Chapter 11. Some posters here want to rewrite history to suite themselves so they can hold onto their biased hateful opinions.

Compton testified before Congress that NO ONE wanted to merge with them mainly because of the Icahn ticket deal. He also stated that TWA had only a couple of days of operating cash left. Given these statements by Compton, TWA was going to file a third time regardless of AA. Eolesen wrote a very good post analyzing TWA's 2000 financial statements showing how weak TWA really was. Those financial statements contained numerous phrases regarding TWA's "viability as a going concern". During the late 1990s, all the other airlines were MAKING BILLIONS WHILE TWA WAS LOOSING MILLIONS. TWA was dead and the TWAers know this in their hearts but they tried to paint TWA as a viable carrier in order to justify bringing their 30+ years of seniority to AA. The blame for your loss goes to TWA management (Ichan, Compton) and the IAM and ALPA not the AA employees. AA's unions and employees were dead set against this transaction from day 1 and wanted absolutely nothing to do with TWA. Carty screwed us and we were forced to defend ourselves against you.

 

[aafsc]

<_< FWAA---- First, I'm not bitter. An "ol man", maybe! But yes, I'm trying to put this all behind me. But for someone to try gloss over what really happened, that I can't set back for! Oh, the IAM was not blameless here I realize, but AA's Unions, and AA, didn't bend over back wards to make things right either! In the case of the F/A's, there could have been a compromise worked out, that would have been fair to all! That didn't happen! And poor AA! They were so Charitable in all this, they tried to "save" TWA!----Yea, right! If there's one thing I have learned about AA is "if it's not profitable to them," they won't do it! The bottom line here is that the accusation of TWA didn't quit turn out the way it was originally plan!----- That's a polite way of saying it went into the toilet quickly! But it did make AA "Number One"! And I've got to say AA's has been trying to deal with it, and I believe they realize that there is some value there also!---- Now this thing with the F/A's is dead wrong! You know it, I know it, and from what's been seen lately, the public is becoming more aware of it! We also know the right thing to do is simply write a letter of understanding with the F/A' Union to extend their recall rights!--- That would not only benefit the exTWA F/A's but the layed off nAAtives as well!!! Then, and only then, can we "really" put this all behind us!!!!

MCI transplant said:"If there is one thing I learned about AA is 'if it's not profitable for them' then they won't do it"

Well, no sh*t. AA is a company and a company's goal is to make a profit. Maybe this is why AA is still around and TWA isn't.

The transaction made AA "number one" in terms of size. So what. I agreed with Crandall when he said that being number one in profitability is more important than being number one in size.

 

[eolesen]

I find it laughable that people try to hold Carty and Compton accountable for their testimony to Congress. Their testimony was based on the facts at hand for Spring 2001. That all ended in September, so get over it already. The world changed, and more than a few people were left behind in the process. Calling them liars for not being prophets doesn't change the facts one iota.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

TWA was purposely taken into bankruptcy by Compton to expedite the TWA merger/buyout!

And the previous bankruptcies?

 

[chillers]

And the previous bankruptcies?

What if we did not agree to the give backs in 2003 and aa went into bankrupticy would that put aa out of bussiness? No I dont think so. :huh:

 

[nbmcg01]

What if we did not agree to the give backs in 2003 and aa went into bankrupticy would that put aa out of bussiness? No I dont think so. :huh:

This is not about whether concessions should have been given. I can only speak to the frustration I experienced during the give back "negotiations". Inexperienced negotiators allowed AA to walk all over the CBA. AA cherry picked the provisions they wanted and then determined "value". Are you kidding me? When someone is willing to give you $340,000,000 plus the amt. of the already furloughed f/as contribution, you would think there would be some small amount of "thank you". Value is established at the time an item is negotiated and can only increase in value. The APFA did nothing to challenge the Company's figures. The APFA GAVE away furlough pay for no credit. They did not secure extended recall for concessions worth approximately $900,000,000 + when you include what the Company states is the cost of the furloughed. For that chunk of change, you get b****ing rights. I don't think ANYONE would be questioning the use of concession dollars IF they hadn't gone into the operation instead of executives pockets.

In every testimony, AA called the acquisition a merger. We have taken our direction from AA's top brass. Assets are acquired, operations are merged. Semantics.

 

[aafsc]

What if we did not agree to the give backs in 2003 and aa went into bankrupticy would that put aa out of bussiness? No I dont think so. :huh:

If AA had gone bankrupt, they would have done it the same way UAL, DL, and NW did it. AA would have had assets it could have put up for collateral. These include but are not limited to slots at LGA, DCA, JFK; slots and routes at LHR, slots and routes at NRT, and the Latin American route authorities. These would have helped them get thru bankruptcy. After 2 bankruptcies,twa had virtually no collateral and aircraft lease rates 2 to 3 times what others were paying. Nearly all of their planes were leased and there is absolutely no reason to believe the rates would have been lowered. They had part of worldspan but if I remember correctly, they could not sell to a non-airline entity. twa was broke and was close to an abrupt shutdown. There would not have been enough money to satisfy the insatiable appetites for the lawyers, accountants, and consultants to restructure twa.

 

[MCI transplant]

If AA had gone bankrupt, they would have done it the same way UAL, DL, and NW did it. AA would have had assets it could have put up for collateral. These include but are not limited to slots at LGA, DCA, JFK; slots and routes at LHR, slots and routes at NRT, and the Latin American route authorities. These would have helped them get thru bankruptcy. After 2 bankruptcies,twa had virtually no collateral and aircraft lease rates 2 to 3 times what others were paying. Nearly all of their planes were leased and there is absolutely no reason to believe the rates would have been lowered. They had part of worldspan but if I remember correctly, they could not sell to a non-airline entity. twa was broke and was close to an abrupt shutdown. There would not have been enough money to satisfy the insatiable appetites for the lawyers, accountants, and consultants to restructure twa.

<_< --- You know aa! If what you say is true, than why did AA buy TWA? If in fact there was no value there, why did they do it? If there is anything I've learned working for AA for this short five+ years, it's they don't do anything that will not profit, or advance them, in some way! Even you seemed to agree on that point! Was it just Carty's ego to become number one? Or was there something else there?---- 😉 Humm!---- If there was nothing there, way did AA take on all that debt you keep talking about?---- I know! To "save" TWA, and all it's employees! Yea! That must be it!----

 

[StraaightTaalk]

<_< --- You know aa! If what you say is true, than why did AA buy TWA? If in fact there was no value there, why did they do it?

The value was in slots at various airports, and in the STL hub, which would have, in a perfect world, served as an excellent reliever hub for AA's ORD and DFW hubs, which were becoming maxed out.

AA certainly did not buy TWA for the leased aircraft, old facilities, unprofitable International route authorities to such places as Colombo, Sri Lanka, or to take care of the TWA employees.

The value, for the most part, was in the slots, and in the STL hub.

 

[TWskyliner]

The value was in slots at various airports, and in the STL hub, which would have, in a perfect world, served as an excellent reliever hub for AA's ORD and DFW hubs, which were becoming maxed out.

AA certainly did not buy TWA for the leased aircraft, old facilities, unprofitable International route authorities to such places as Colombo, Sri Lanka, or to take care of the TWA employees.

The value, for the most part, was in the slots, and in the STL hub.

Not to mention getting rid of a weaker competitor. The list is long regarding what lengths American Airlines has gone to to squash the competition regardless of the threat...anybody remember Braniff? Unfortunatly the public only cares about cheap fares, not ethics or character. I just hope AA doesn't have to go before congress again with empty self serving promises in order to get what they want. You can count on "us" to be there.
Memories are short unless you're in the airline buisness.

 

[777 fixer]

<_< ---- We've been there so many times! TWA was purposely taken into bankruptcy by Compton to expedite the TWA merger/buyout! Can I prove that? No! Can you prove otherwise? No!----- 😉

The following says there was more to it than that. Something we have been over before by the way.

< http://www.deb.uscourts.gov/Opinions/2001/TWA_STAY.pdf >

 

[777 fixer]

Not to mention getting rid of a weaker competitor. The list is long regarding what lengths American Airlines has gone to to squash the competition regardless of the threat...anybody remember Braniff? Unfortunatly the public only cares about cheap fares, not ethics or character. I just hope AA doesn't have to go before congress again with empty self serving promises in order to get what they want. You can count on "us" to be there.
Memories are short unless you're in the airline buisness.

Ah yes the famous "AA killed Braniff" myth. It's been repeated so many times that people believe it to be fact without questioning it. Here's the fact of the matter, Braniff killed itself. After deregualtion it bit off more than it could chew pure and simple.

 

[FWAAA]

The value was in slots at various airports, and in the STL hub, which would have, in a perfect world, served as an excellent reliever hub for AA's ORD and DFW hubs, which were becoming maxed out.

AA certainly did not buy TWA for the leased aircraft, old facilities, unprofitable International route authorities to such places as Colombo, Sri Lanka, or to take care of the TWA employees.

The value, for the most part, was in the slots, and in the STL hub.

I agree, with one big additional asset for the list: the STL-based TWA faithful customers - the elite members of the frequent flyer program. AA wanted (and, for the most part) got them on board with mileage and status matching. WN hasn't grown much (if at all) and other airlines haven't moved into STL in any meaningful way. AA still dominates non-WN passenger traffic.