A settlement between US and UsAirways and AMR

[mike33]

700 I asked wt that same question bout those slots n the fact the doj made quite clear that dl and ua wont gt any there a forbes article as well that titled NOTE TO DELTA DELTA N UNITED DONT NEED TO APPLY BEC THEY WONT GET ANY the emails apparently did nothingnto prevent the doj from makin the settlement either

If we have been in the airline business for 20 or more years , we all know that DL and NW are Goverment strong arms. Always has been and always will be. Plain and simple, They will find a way to aquire something before US gets it back. We may be the biggest on paper but DL is the biggest when it comes to winning. I didn't see where they said made it clear that DL need not apply. I only saw print from the writer of such article. 1.3 billion $ profit. When we get to that , they will be making 1.5-2 billion

 

[nycbusdriver]

you just gave up 44 flights/day at DCA and 12 at LGA.

Would you like to tell us how many more slots that is that any other airline merger?

I'm not sure what you thought but 56 flight per day at key airports is a pretty hefty payment for emails and anything else.

And it still comes down to that every slot pair that isn't given to DL is a slot pair that ends up in the hands of a low fare competitor who will use bigger aircraft and compete in bigger markets.

But since you're the biggest airline in the world, you can handle it now, right?

 
Still will have 250 flts a day at DCA (continuing to be the dominant carrier) and 175 a day at LGA.  Hardly a devastating blow to AA's presence at those two airports.

 

[MetalMover]

Metal,
again you can't handle that DL has managed to become the most profitable airline in the US, does it in some of the most competitive markets in the US, and still manages to pay its employees far better than the industry average.

They pay better JUST TO KEEP UNIONS OUT.......With the exception of the pilots...
 
Why don't you go back in history and tell all of us how wonderful Delta treated the former PanAM people.

 

[nevergiveup]

how wonderful....
we are arguing about whether DL will get a slot or not while the US fan club tries to look past the fact that 44 flights/day by competitors will be launched in the hub that US execs called their highest margin hub.

If you would rather have 44 flights/day from low fare competitors, I'm sure that can be arranged.

All of those fantasies that you have of how great AA/US will be able to stand up to competition fail to consider that DCA and DFW will both be inheriting substantial competition in just a few months after the merger closes.

Metal,
again you can't handle that DL has managed to become the most profitable airline in the US, does it in some of the most competitive markets in the US, and still manages to pay its employees far better than the industry average.

Got Delta pajamas?

 

[WorldTraveler]

Still will have 250 flts a day at DCA (continuing to be the dominant carrier) and 175 a day at LGA.  Hardly a devastating blow to AA's presence at those two airports.

 you can't grasp the concept that new AA's DCA operation will now have to compete with thousands of low fare carrier seats per day. Doesn't matter how many flights/day new AA has; what matters is how much they have now and how much their profitability will fall because of those divestitures.
 

They pay better JUST TO KEEP UNIONS OUT.......With the exception of the pilots...
 
Why don't you go back in history and tell all of us how wonderful Delta treated the former PanAM people.

I can tell you because I was in NYC when DL hired 6500 of them. Tell me how many UA hired when it bought the Pacific and Latin America as well as the LHR slots, all of which were far larger than the Atlantic operation which Dl bought.

Why don't you also tell us how happy the TW people are at how they were treated by AA.

DL never said it would save PA's Latin America operation; that was PA's job to turn that division around. AA did buy all of TW and then proceeded to dismantle most of it within just a few years.
Biggest hatchet job in the history of US aviation.

 

[700UW]

He has a set of Delta underoos!

 

[Beancounter]

 you can't grasp the concept that new AA's DCA operation will now have to compete with thousands of low fare carrier seats per day. Doesn't matter how many flights/day new AA has; what matters is how much they have now and how much their profitability will fall because of those divestitures.
 

 

You're right, our managemt should have just dropped the whole thing so Delta could reign the industry supreme   
 
Seriously, in the grand scheme of things it's a very small price to pay.  Should we have had to divest anything?  No, of course not, but that's the way the DOJ rolls.  Speaking of the DOJ, from what I understand the DOJ will determine who gets those spots.  So, don't vent your frustration towards us if you get zilch.
 
Bean

 

[WorldTraveler]

Again you truly have no idea what AA/US are getting themselves into if you think increasing the number of seats at DCA by low fare carriers to 25% of the market is "no big deal."

The divestitures are indeed stiff and they clearly reflect the DOJ's agenda to reshape the industry and give the LFCs a chance to compete. I'm not saying I believe what the DOJ has done is right but I am saying the divestitures are the largest that have ever been required from a US airline merger.

And it also doesn't change that AA/US will be in far worse shape having to compete against WN or B6 than they would against DL.
DL might lose out on the chance to add a few small cities from DCA but the impact to AA/US will be far, far larger.

Your sense invincibility will shrink after the company tells you - and they will - that the divestitures have changed the economics of the merger and they can't afford the pay raises they promised.

Again, DL has gotten where it is because it has successfully competed in some of the toughest markets against network and low fare carriers. That is now what AA/US have to do.

 

[robbedagain]

In the grand scheme of things I wondernif the 2 companies are going to keep the us low fare advantage for a while that was one subject of the doj

 

[WorldTraveler]

hell no they aren't keeping US' fare structure.

The DOJ believes that passing out 56 slot pairs to low fare carriers is enough to keep fares down.

 

[Beancounter]

Again you truly have no idea what AA/US are getting themselves into if you think increasing the number of seats at DCA by low fare carriers to 25% of the market is "no big deal."The divestitures are indeed stiff and they clearly reflect the DOJ's agenda to reshape the industry and give the LFCs a chance to compete. I'm not saying I believe what the DOJ has done is right but I am saying the divestitures are the largest that have ever been required from a US airline merger.And it also doesn't change that AA/US will be in far worse shape having to compete against WN or B6 than they would against DL.DL might lose out on the chance to add a few small cities from DCA but the impact to AA/US will be far, far larger.Your sense invincibility will shrink after the company tells you - and they will - that the divestitures have changed the economics of the merger and they can't afford the pay raises they promised.Again, DL has gotten where it is because it has successfully competed in some of the toughest markets against network and low fare carriers. That is now what AA/US have to do.

World, you're ranting. I'm rather surprised that the announcement has so unsettled you. We are well aware there is lots of work ahead. AWA didn't fend off Soufhwest with just luck. The management team does have some experience. Relax, even after the merger i'd still rank Delta #1,then American, and United. United may have some great assets, but let's be honest, management there couldn't find it's own rear with both hands and a map.

Bean

 

[WorldTraveler]

Of course I am ranting since we are talking about AA/US. We're best buds since we're talking about UA and I happen to agree with your assessment.

It isn't a question of whether DL is #1 or not.

The question is that the whole merger has been one of glossing over the huge difficulties while making promises that were well beyond what could be expected to occur in anyone's wildest dreams.

I am just dumbfounded by the sheer lack of any intelligent questioning either by AA/US, the analysts, or their fans (including here) about the real cost of what divesting 44 slot pairs is going to have on the resulting entity.

The reason why the Wall Street analysts don't ask the question is because they want the deal to happen and will make money on it.

No one makes money by saying the tough words no matter how real they are. Why didn't anyone ask questions when the mortgage scandal was unfolding? Do you think no one thought thru the implications of what was happening?

The reality as much as you and everyone else want to believe otherwise is that the divestitures will enormously change the US airline industry and the focus will be felt the hardest in AA/US' key markets. Add in the fall of the WA, the coming of Open Skies in Latin America, and the beginning of the DL/VS JV which is the largest competitor AA/BA has had, and there are more revenue challenges coming to AA/US than there have been for any other merger.

Someone who I disagree with often on online forums has noted on another site that there are significant exceptions allowed in the clauses regarding new AA's requirement to keep their current hubs. Many of us have said all along that the revenue and cost benefits from this merger won't come as long as AA and US maintain as much capacity as they currently have. They need to find a reason to get rid of more than 10,000 employees because they have at least that many more than DL or UA have for networks that won't be that much different.

There will be so many attempts to back out of the statements that were made to get this merger passed it will make your head spin.

And yet we continue to hear people worrying about my underwear instead of asking the tough questions about how the math can work when the industry has just changed dramatically underneath new AA.

This forum will become almost exclusively frequented by AA and US people who are now one airline. Who knows how much real discussion will take place.

One thing is certain and that is that there will be a whole lot of people who will wake up one day and realize they have been sold a bill of goods even while trying to forget that there were people who told them repeatedly that a day like this would arrive.

 

[MetalMover]

 you can't grasp the concept that new AA's DCA operation will now have to compete with thousands of low fare carrier seats per day. Doesn't matter how many flights/day new AA has; what matters is how much they have now and how much their profitability will fall because of those divestitures.
 

I can tell you because I was in NYC when DL hired 6500 of them. Tell me how many UA hired when it bought the Pacific and Latin America as well as the LHR slots, all of which were far larger than the Atlantic operation which Dl bought.

Why don't you also tell us how happy the TW people are at how they were treated by AA.

DL never said it would save PA's Latin America operation; that was PA's job to turn that division around. AA did buy all of TW and then proceeded to dismantle most of it within just a few years.
Biggest hatchet job in the history of US aviation.

You forgot the part where those PanAM people had to be SELECTED to work for Delta. You also conveniently omitted the part that if they were lucky enough to be chosen,they had to complete three years to get their 100% PanAm time. 

 

[nevergiveup]

Of course I am ranting since we are talking about AA/US. We're best buds since we're talking about UA and I happen to agree with your assessment.

It isn't a question of whether DL is #1 or not.

The question is that the whole merger has been one of glossing over the huge difficulties while making promises that were well beyond what could be expected to occur in anyone's wildest dreams.

I am just dumbfounded by the sheer lack of any intelligent questioning either by AA/US, the analysts, or their fans (including here) about the real cost of what divesting 44 slot pairs is going to have on the resulting entity.

The reason why the Wall Street analysts don't ask the question is because they want the deal to happen and will make money on it.

No one makes money by saying the tough words no matter how real they are. Why didn't anyone ask questions when the mortgage scandal was unfolding? Do you think no one thought thru the implications of what was happening?

The reality as much as you and everyone else want to believe otherwise is that the divestitures will enormously change the US airline industry and the focus will be felt the hardest in AA/US' key markets. Add in the fall of the WA, the coming of Open Skies in Latin America, and the beginning of the DL/VS JV which is the largest competitor AA/BA has had, and there are more revenue challenges coming to AA/US than there have been for any other merger.

Someone who I disagree with often on online forums has noted on another site that there are significant exceptions allowed in the clauses regarding new AA's requirement to keep their current hubs. Many of us have said all along that the revenue and cost benefits from this merger won't come as long as AA and US maintain as much capacity as they currently have. They need to find a reason to get rid of more than 10,000 employees because they have at least that many more than DL or UA have for networks that won't be that much different.

There will be so many attempts to back out of the statements that were made to get this merger passed it will make your head spin.

And yet we continue to hear people worrying about my underwear instead of asking the tough questions about how the math can work when the industry has just changed dramatically underneath new AA.

This forum will become almost exclusively frequented by AA and US people who are now one airline. Who knows how much real discussion will take place.

One thing is certain and that is that there will be a whole lot of people who will wake up one day and realize they have been sold a bill of goods even while trying to forget that there were people who told them repeatedly that a day like this would arrive.

I bet they analyzed the 44 slots and their cost long before you or I ever guessed it would happen. Ever watch The Big Bang theory?

 

[MetalMover]

WT is obsessively trolling on this forum.