A settlement between US and UsAirways and AMR

[swamt]

yes, I think DL came to that conclusion with their press release in which they urged the DOJ to allow all carriers to bid on slots.

The sad thing is that there are people including at AA and US who think the country and AA/US will be better off by blocking DL from the process rather than allowing equal competition on full merits.

DL will have a field day pointing out how many cities that have lost service to DCA - AA/US have acknowledged that will happen so you can bet there will be more than a few - while pointing out that the DOJ chose low fare carriers who serve a fraction of the total number of cities in the US that low fare carriers serve.

DL looks to me to be setting itself up to look golden while AA/US will be left to compete with 56 new low fare carrier flights that they somehow think will be better off in their interest than if they argued that network carriers should be allowed to serve some smaller cities.

Even at B6's current average aircraft size at DCA which heavily includes the E190, new AA is looking at 5500 seats/day in low fare carrier seats - and they will be deployed in new AA's top markets. If you use WN's average seat size at DCA, the seat count goes up by nearly 1000 seats per day.

IF AA/US wants to be arrogant enough to think they can successfully compete against low fare carriers who have a 10% or more cost difference, then let them bear the consequences while touting that they shut the country and DL out of the process.

yeah, the love field issue has been discussed elsewhere. How hypocritical does it look for WN to be arguing that they should be allowed into DCA and LGA en masse but they want a monopoly on Love Field?

Sad thing is that WN doesn't compete effectively against DL which is precisely why WN doesn't want DL at Love Field. Note how many flights WN has cut in ATL.

I'm headed to the store for another box of popcorn....

You better pick up some more Kleenex while your there, because you are out.

 

[WorldTraveler]

EXCUSE ME....

AA DID NOT block any carrier's access to DFW and WN has had the opportunity to bid on assets and request them from the DOT in the very same way as any other airline has done.

It is WN who is afraid of the competition, not DL. would you like to tell us how many flights WN has cut at ATL and how many cities they dropped from the FL network or shall we wait for DL to file the list with the DOJ?

WN wants to have a monopoly of a publicly financed airport and expect that DL is going to just lay down and accept just a scheme.

WN has great political connections but if you think that DL is an also ran in the halls of Washington, your head will spin faster than you can count RPMs on a CFM 56.

If DL wins the bid, that's fine... but there is no legal basis for blocking out any company in an industry because the DOJ drew some arbitrary line between carrier names.

WN is the largest domestic carrier. They are not a disadvantaged upstart.

WN WILL NOT be gaining the two additional gates at Love Field.

BTW, can we count on you to deliver those 717s according to the specs in the contract? DL will be using them from Love Field to DL's hubs.

 

[swamt]

You are starting to act just like OS does.  I have never said that SWA will gain the 2 extra gates. I told you they will be put up (after AA gives them up, they can no longer lease them to DL)  to other carriers, which doesn't have to be, but may goto LCC's.  But here's an article saying DL and UA can bid all they want, but more than likely will not be awarded ANY SLOTS THAT AA AGREED TO DIVEST (not quoting here) which include DAL 2 gates as well as other 2 gates at LA, Chicago, Miami, Boston as well as DAL (Love Field).  All this is coming from DOJ officials:
 


Delta, United Unlikely to Get AMR Slots, U.S. Official Says

By David McLaughlin - Nov 14, 2013 10:49 AM CT

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Stock Chart for Delta Air Lines Inc (DAL)


Delta Air Lines Inc. (DAL) and United Continental Holdings Inc. (UAL) are unlikely to win U.S. approval to get take-off and landing rights given up by American Airlines to settle a lawsuit over its merger with US Airways Group Inc., a Justice Department official said.
Renata Hesse, a senior official in the department’s antitrust division, reiterated that the proposed settlement, which will allow AMR Corp. (AAMRQ)’s American to merge with US Airways, is designed to introduce competition at key airports by low-cost carriers.
“Whether somebody wants to try to get assets, we’re not going to stop people from trying,” Hesse told reporters. “But it’s hard for me to see how Delta and United would qualify -- would meet that description.”
The airlines must give up 104 flight slots at Reagan National Airport in Washington and 34 at New York’s LaGuardia Airport, along with smaller divestitures at five other airports, under the proposed settlement reached with the Justice Department Nov. 12. The agreement must be approved by a federal judge.
The accord positions the carriers to complete their combination in December, bringing AMR out of bankruptcy.

 

[WorldTraveler]

The legal question that DL will require be answered is the legal basis for the WA and its revisions as well as the settlement agreement.

You do realize.that it is possible the settlement agreement and WN's potential to pick up dozens of LGA and DCA flight could be set aside, don't you?

The whole basis of the WA and WN's use of even 16 gates is at risk.

All for 2 gates at DAL

 

[Phoenix]

Is Delta about to collapse? The Delta fans are screaming like the world is ending.

 

[MetalMover]

The legal question that DL will require be answered is the legal basis for the WA and its revisions as well as the settlement agreement.

You do realize.that it is possible the settlement agreement and WN's potential to pick up dozens of LGA and DCA flight could be set aside, don't you?

The whole basis of the WA and WN's use of even 16 gates is at risk.

All for 2 gates at DAL

That sure is a nice hangar Delta left for AA at DFW!

 

[WorldTraveler]

that sure is a nice terminal you built at JFK,er, partially built only to continue to be downsizing your operation around it.
 
Methinks AA is paying a whole lot more to rent a terminal that is being used well below its potential than DL ever paid for the hangar in Dallas.

 

[700UW]

You really cant compare a how much it costs for a mtc hangar compared to a terminal.
 
You are really reaching, I guess since US/AA will be #1 your fragile deltoid ego cant handle it, your losing it.

 

[767one]

Don't be mad at SW.  SW is only doing at LF what AA has done at DFW.  SW will do what they can to get into slot controlled airports, and no it WILL NOT be handed to them.  Your bitterness towards SW is noted.  Now stop crying about SW getting to bid and Delta and United told to  "wait by ring side and enjoy the show."
Delta is also in the media crying in their beers about wanting to participate,  whah, whah, whah...  All the legacies have had their chances to bid or obtain more slots, now it's time for the LCC's to build a larger presence and better compete against the legacies in order to maintain and keep fares on a competive basis.  Don't be scared of the competition, Delta is, (pardon me) WAS the largest airline and should continue to do just fine.  I also read where DL wants LF gates. Don't think that will happen as the DOJ said they will sit on the sidelines to watch.  Also not saying SWA will get them automatically.  I would be leaning towards JB, Virgin or Frontier and maybe even Allegiant, just a guess though.  It will be tough to come into a 95% and better pass loads going to SWA, but, with the W/A going away it would be good timing to come in.   Now Delta; quit your whining, wipe your tears and get back to work...

Swamt,

I'm not asking this in a contentious way but I'm curious what actually makes the difference between a low cost, new entrant, or a legacy carrier. I'm pretty sure SW is not a new entrant unless new entrants don't become legacy carriers until the've been in business for 50 years. I'm really not sure that SW fares are that much lower to make them a "low cost carrier". Does the DOT have a definition for the types of carriers or is it wall street, or perhaps just plain public perception or a lack therof?

All the best,

Bob

 

[WorldTraveler]

You really cant compare a how much it costs for a mtc hangar compared to a terminal.
 
You are really reaching, I guess since US/AA will be #1 your fragile deltoid ego cant handle it, your losing it.

see, you have parroted the company line since the merger was announced and they reiterated again at the announcement of the settlement.

We have divided up the industry the way we want and we aren't about to let any other legacy airline enjoy the spoils which we have to give up.

Problem is what AA and US said and what the DOJ officials said to the magazines about excluding DL and UA from the bidding process is illegal.

Why don't you check US law and let us know where it is allowed for the DOJ to decide how to allocate assets in the USA based solely on an economic basis? You can call a lifeline and you will probably need one because it isn't allowed.

That's why DL is filing the case.
 

Swamt,

I'm not asking this in a contentious way but I'm curious what actually makes the difference between a low cost, new entrant, or a legacy carrier. I'm pretty sure SW is not a new entrant unless new entrants don't become legacy carriers until the've been in business for 50 years. I'm really not sure that SW fares are that much lower to make them a "low cost carrier". Does the DOT have a definition for the types of carriers or is it wall street, or perhaps just plain public perception or a lack therof?

All the best,

Bob

Bob,
he has gotten real quite all of a sudden because there is no legal basis for the DOJ to carve up the industry in categories which involve picking winners and losers and/or locking some players out of certain assets.
With 11% of the market share at DCA and the current use of 1 gate at Love Field, DL is a small player in both markets and is just as legally qualified to be the solution to the AA/US market concentration problem as is B6 or V

The real crime is that someone at the DOJ was dumb enough to honestly believe that WN should be allowed to even bid on anything at DAL, an airport where they already control at least 80% of the gates and have over 95% of the current boardings.

WN is scrambling tonite, Bob.

They have taunted AA back and forth for years and thought they had the "gotcha" this time. Funny thing is that WN might have been got.

 

[700UW]

Show me a law where it says they cant.
 
The Federal Govt basically owns the slots, they allocate them, and they approve any sales.

 

[MetalMover]

Show me a law where it says they cant.
 
The Federal Govt basically owns the slots, they allocate them, and they approve any sales.

The rule of law doesn't apply to DL.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Show me a law where it says they cant.
 
The Federal Govt basically owns the slots, they allocate them, and they approve any sales.

thank you for confirming that you don't understand that slots are not economic tools other than to increase access of certain cities to DCA and they cannot be allocated to any one carrier over another.

That is why US has some despite being the largest slot holder at DCA as do carriers like AS whose presence at DCA is solely because of preferential slots.

IN no case was any carrier excluded from the process. If you think otherwise, cough up the proof.

 

[robbedagain]

From that forbes article dl n ua CAN apply for the slots..... BUT IT IS VERY DOUBTFUL THAT FED REGULATORS WILL APPROVE the slots to legacy carriers legacy would be dl ua aa

 

[mike33]

From that forbes article dl n ua CAN apply for the slots..... BUT IT IS VERY DOUBTFUL THAT FED REGULATORS WILL APPROVE the slots to legacy carriers legacy would be dl ua aa

 
 
  Now You get it?