A settlement between US and UsAirways and AMR

[cltrat]

WT is obsessively trolling on this forum.

either he works for DL or has spent the whole day off ranting here in every thread on the board. That or he screwed his employer being on here all day.

If you thinks its bad here ,look in the DL forum shesh
Man just chill we all know that in your
view DL is lord of the skies. We just don't happen to share it with you.

 

[WorldTraveler]

WT is obsessively trolling on this forum.

more like he is challenging you to think which is precisely what you don't want to do.

If it was nothing, you should have no problem defending it.

The fact that you can't defend AA and US' actions over the past decade is precisely why my "job" here is so easy.

I'm not going away BTW

 

You forgot the part where those PanAM people had to be SELECTED to work for Delta. You also conveniently omitted the part that if they were lucky enough to be chosen,they had to complete three years to get their 100% PanAm time.

yes, that is what happens in an asset acquisition. IF the company chooses to hire people at all.

Even in mergers - um hum AA-TW - the employees got sacrificed. And in some asset acquisitions like UA-PA, very few if any assets were taken at all.

You simply can't stand the idea that DL actually treats its employees well enough that they don't need a union and that DL has been able to successfully integrate one merger and asset after another.

No other network airline has even close to a track record as good as DL's.
 
 

I bet they analyzed the 44 slots and their cost long before you or I ever guessed it would happen. Ever watch The Big Bang theory?

You want to believe that but the simple reality is that AA's creditors decided a long time ago that they were willing to believe Parker's promises over AA mgmt.'s so ultimately no analysis really mattered. The decision had been made a long time ago.

 

[LD3]

STFU

 

[WorldTraveler]

We're dealing with the soiled masses who fall into line behind their masters... they don't want to think and a lot of them don't even know how to.
And when someone comes along asking them to think and challenging them with facts and realities, they grow hostile.

 

[nevergiveup]

more like he is challenging you to think which is precisely what you don't want to do.

If it was nothing, you should have no problem defending it.

The fact that you can't defend AA and US' actions over the past decade is precisely why my "job" here is so easy.

I'm not going away BTW

 
yes, that is what happens in an asset acquisition. IF the company chooses to hire people at all.

Even in mergers - um hum AA-TW - the employees got sacrificed. And in some asset acquisitions like UA-PA, very few if any assets were taken at all.

You simply can't stand the idea that DL actually treats its employees well enough that they don't need a union and that DL has been able to successfully integrate one merger and asset after another.

No other network airline has even close to a track record as good as DL's.
 
 

You want to believe that but the simple reality is that AA's creditors decided a long time ago that they were willing to believe Parker's promises over AA mgmt.'s so ultimately no analysis really mattered. The decision had been made a long time ago.

Oh Lord, it's hard...to be humble...

 

[767one]

Again you truly have no idea what AA/US are getting themselves into if you think increasing the number of seats at DCA by low fare carriers to 25% of the market is "no big deal."

The divestitures are indeed stiff and they clearly reflect the DOJ's agenda to reshape the industry and give the LFCs a chance to compete. I'm not saying I believe what the DOJ has done is right but I am saying the divestitures are the largest that have ever been required from a US airline merger.

And it also doesn't change that AA/US will be in far worse shape having to compete against WN or B6 than they would against DL.
DL might lose out on the chance to add a few small cities from DCA but the impact to AA/US will be far, far larger.

Your sense invincibility will shrink after the company tells you - and they will - that the divestitures have changed the economics of the merger and they can't afford the pay raises they promised.

Again, DL has gotten where it is because it has successfully competed in some of the toughest markets against network and low fare carriers. That is now what AA/US have to do.

I don't think the employees had anything much to do with the deal and by now all should know even a perfect merger will cause pain. It would appear that the DOJ was/is intent on transfering slots/facilitys to airlines other than Delta or United and to have pushed the case to court could have resulted in a worse outcome.
Yes all carriers will have to learn to compete against low cost/new entrant carriers and once they learn the DOJ will jump in again to keep fares lower than they need to be because Americans think they have a right to low fares forever even while they think nothing of spending 50 grand for a car or a couple of hundred for a dinner.
There is no doubt in my mind that managment will try and use the divestitures to take from the employees again and also no doubt that even if the merger went the way managment wanted the would manufacture a reason.It is what they are and what they do best.

Delta has gotten where they are through excellent "lobbying" not to mention that little bankruptcy thing.

All the best,

Bob

 

[WorldTraveler]

Bob,
you have a pretty good grasp of the situation.

I'm not sure what deal you are referring to and if the deal is the settlement deal, then no the employees had nothing to do with it.

If the deal was the merger in the first place, then absolutely AA's employees pushed AMR's creditors to give up control of AA to Parker. Let's not forget that it was just over a year ago that AA's operations ground to a halt in a work slowdown that labor wouldn't call that, revenues fell, and premium customers fled. The only salvation for AA was that UA was in a longer-term operational meltdown and their management has done an even worse job of managing their labor and customer relations than all of AA and US' problems in those categories combined.

Anyone who doesn't think that all of the modifications that AA/US have had to make to their business plan will be funded directly from labor are in for a big surprise.

As for BK, all of the airlines have now had BKs so that is no longer a factor that makes one carrier any better than the other.

The difference between DL and the rest of the legacy airlines is that DL has aggressively defended its markets from other carriers including low fare carriers, it has grown into key markets for other carriers including top industry markets where DL has traditionally been weak, it has maintained a cost advantage over its peers which is driven by efficiency even while paying higher salaries, and DL has operated more reliably and delivered higher quality service than its peers.

DL's lobbying efforts might have helped them be able to move DTW-HND to SEA-HND but it doesn't translate into a billion dollars per year in extra profitability compared to its peers.

 

[nycbusdriver]

As for BK, all of the airlines have now had BKs so that is no longer a factor that makes one carrier any better than the other.
 
 

 
Somewhere along the line, I missed the SW bankruptcy.  Tell me more about that one.
 
It's totally understandable, though, since even the DOJ missed including the largest (in terms of passengers) domestic carrier in their failed attempt to use the competition card to stop the AA-US merger.  Gordon Bethune pointed that out in his interview with CNBC, as well as what he felt was the true reason for the lawsuit...the new guy at the DOJ wanting to make a name for himself.

 

[WorldTraveler]

legacy airlines... the same group that AA, UA, and US belong to.

Of course WN is special even though their costs are only 1% lower than DL's and they carry more passengers than any other domestic airline.

They just happened to choose not to fly to the nation's most congested airports for decades and now decide they should show up and be handed all kinds of slots to do so.

At least B6 had the nerve to build its business plan around flying out of the congested NE and then figure out how to make it work... and they also have shelled out a lot of money to fly to DCA.

Most of all, they weren't hypocritically asking for access to DCA and LGA while at the same time asking for a monopoly at Love Field.

B6 actually knows how to compete successfully alongside legacy carriers and isn't afraid to do so.

if this was the name someone in the DOJ wanted to make for himself, he isn't setting himself up for a lot of kudos.

Maybe he was running away from a gig at the Affordable Care Act.

 

[robbedagain]

Interesting article on justplanenews.com yesterday possibly usatoday n it mentioned that dl can apply for dca slots but bill bayernsaid itnis unlikely dl will get any

 

[robbedagain]

In the pilots thread theres an article from usa320 and on www.justplanenews.com maybe in usatoday yesterday edition bill baer made clear that dl one of the legacy need not apply bec chances are they wont get the dca slots n there word that the govt dont want dl to have dal slots

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, I think DL came to that conclusion with their press release in which they urged the DOJ to allow all carriers to bid on slots.

The sad thing is that there are people including at AA and US who think the country and AA/US will be better off by blocking DL from the process rather than allowing equal competition on full merits.

DL will have a field day pointing out how many cities that have lost service to DCA - AA/US have acknowledged that will happen so you can bet there will be more than a few - while pointing out that the DOJ chose low fare carriers who serve a fraction of the total number of cities in the US that low fare carriers serve.

DL looks to me to be setting itself up to look golden while AA/US will be left to compete with 56 new low fare carrier flights that they somehow think will be better off in their interest than if they argued that network carriers should be allowed to serve some smaller cities.

Even at B6's current average aircraft size at DCA which heavily includes the E190, new AA is looking at 5500 seats/day in low fare carrier seats - and they will be deployed in new AA's top markets. If you use WN's average seat size at DCA, the seat count goes up by nearly 1000 seats per day.

IF AA/US wants to be arrogant enough to think they can successfully compete against low fare carriers who have a 10% or more cost difference, then let them bear the consequences while touting that they shut the country and DL out of the process.

yeah, the love field issue has been discussed elsewhere. How hypocritical does it look for WN to be arguing that they should be allowed into DCA and LGA en masse but they want a monopoly on Love Field?

Sad thing is that WN doesn't compete effectively against DL which is precisely why WN doesn't want DL at Love Field. Note how many flights WN has cut in ATL.

I'm headed to the store for another box of popcorn....

 

[700UW]

That would be 22 new flights.

 

[nycbusdriver]

B6 actually knows how to compete successfully alongside legacy carriers and isn't afraid to do so.

 

 
Why aren't you completing your thought?  We all know this is what you really meant to say:
 
"B6 actually knows how to compete successfully alongside legacy carriers and isn't afraid to do so.  Except for their ability to compete with DL, though.  When DL is ready, they will crush B6 like a cockroach."
 
That's what you meant, right?  You couldn't possibly be saying that another carrier can compete with almighty DL, are you?

 

[swamt]

legacy airlines... the same group that AA, UA, and US belong to.

Of course WN is special even though their costs are only 1% lower than DL's and they carry more passengers than any other domestic airline.

They just happened to choose not to fly to the nation's most congested airports for decades and now decide they should show up and be handed all kinds of slots to do so.

At least B6 had the nerve to build its business plan around flying out of the congested NE and then figure out how to make it work... and they also have shelled out a lot of money to fly to DCA.

Most of all, they weren't hypocritically asking for access to DCA and LGA while at the same time asking for a monopoly at Love Field.

B6 actually knows how to compete successfully alongside legacy carriers and isn't afraid to do so.

if this was the name someone in the DOJ wanted to make for himself, he isn't setting himself up for a lot of kudos.

Maybe he was running away from a gig at the Affordable Care Act.

Don't be mad at SW.  SW is only doing at LF what AA has done at DFW.  SW will do what they can to get into slot controlled airports, and no it WILL NOT be handed to them.  Your bitterness towards SW is noted.  Now stop crying about SW getting to bid and Delta and United told to  "wait by ring side and enjoy the show."
Delta is also in the media crying in their beers about wanting to participate,  whah, whah, whah...  All the legacies have had their chances to bid or obtain more slots, now it's time for the LCC's to build a larger presence and better compete against the legacies in order to maintain and keep fares on a competive basis.  Don't be scared of the competition, Delta is, (pardon me) WAS the largest airline and should continue to do just fine.  I also read where DL wants LF gates. Don't think that will happen as the DOJ said they will sit on the sidelines to watch.  Also not saying SWA will get them automatically.  I would be leaning towards JB, Virgin or Frontier and maybe even Allegiant, just a guess though.  It will be tough to come into a 95% and better pass loads going to SWA, but, with the W/A going away it would be good timing to come in.   Now Delta; quit your whining, wipe your tears and get back to work...