A pilot does...

[2BorNot2B]

Half the Mainline PHL pilots on Reserve are making between $40K and $70K---a little shy of six figures. Everyone of them have been with the company for at least 18 years.

$40K and 90 minute call reserve after 18 years with US Air. :down: Everyone has a sob story.

Good Evening! I'm just trying to get a "handle" on how bad things have gotten since I retired years ago!

According to a certain website, U pays a 15yr. Reserve Capt. $108,000./yr, a F/O $73,000./yr., plus Benefits. That would be for a 72hr. Guarantee. Run that up to 95hrs and the numbers increase, putting the F/O over the 6 figure mark.

While I agree that is far from acceptable, it is still a nice paycheck .... just not the one we would expect for the time actually given to the Company!

The other side of the coin are the RJ guys!! I would never fly those Aircraft at the given pay rates! They are being Raped, IMHO!

2B

 

[Phoenix]

Good Evening! I'm just trying to get a "handle" on how bad things have gotten since I retired years ago!

According to a certain website, U pays a 15yr. Reserve Capt. $108,000./yr, a F/O $73,000./yr., plus Benefits. That would be for a 72hr. Guarantee. Run that up to 95hrs and the numbers increase, putting the F/O over the 6 figure mark.

While I agree that is far from acceptable, it is still a nice paycheck .... just not the one we would expect for the time actually given to the Company!

The other side of the coin are the RJ guys!! I would never fly those Aircraft at the given pay rates! They are being Raped, IMHO!

2B

There are Mainline pilots with 18 years making $40K on the E190, the latest Mainline plane.

And there are only about 3,000 pilots active out of a 6,000 pilot list from just five years ago. And yes, I agree the Mainline pilots making $40K are being raped, and that by their own fellow pilots that voted for those rates.

It is a miracle that the airine runs as well as it does.

 

[2BorNot2B]

There are Mainline pilots with 18 years making $40K on the E190, the latest Mainline plane.

And there are only about 3,000 pilots active out of a 6,000 pilot list from just five years ago. And yes, I agree the Mainline pilots making $40K are being raped, and that by their own fellow pilots that voted for those rates.

It is a miracle that the airine runs as well as it does.

:huh: The EMB-190 is "Mainline"? I did not know that. Heck, that is the DC-9 and 737 of years ago ..... the pay rates are obscene!!

That is REALLY terrible news to me ..... Oh, how well I know the Hours that really go into the job!

FLY SAFE

2B

 

[Itestwell]

You know, after much consideration, I agree that most pilots don't get paid enough---considering the training, experience, responsibility, and the endless travel. However, I know of no one shackled in the cockpit. Recommendation, if you can't live with the pay, develop a marketable skill that will get you the pay you can live with and leave professional flying to those who don't mind the pay. However, in the meantime, please stop complaining to the masses who generally make much less doing crappy jobs they hate. Many of us would give our left one to do your job, but only for a decent wage, so we do something else and get our flying fix elsewhere.

Every hour flying is worth two on the ground

Hmm, not sure that I agree. So instead of fighting and negotiating to regain some of what you gave in a profession you love, you should just quit and do something else? Hope you are not teaching that logic to your children (if you have them...).

I believe that the outsourcing of America will someday have no boundaries if we don't fight it. Someone is always gonna jump at the chance to do it cheaper. When does it end? Do we just jeep going back to school to become more "marketable?"

 

[2BorNot2B]

I flew over 900 hours in less than 9 months in Vietnam, without autopilot. I would not wish that on anyone. In fact, I probably killed innocent people doing that. A kinda GWBush moment, but he was a deserter.

Matched if not beat you on hours in 'Nam, but mine was a standard 12 mo. tour. How'd you get by with nine? I was Army ... flying U-6 and U-8D, and I had never flown an aircraft w/autopilot! The GREATEST hours of my Career! Autopilot for what??? No altitude restictions in 'Nam, look out the window and fly where you wanted to fly! What were you flying over there?? Where were you based? I was in Danang for most of my tour!

I was Proud of my Service, but saddend by the reception when I returned home to the United States!(Kennedy and Johnson Era, Dem's, remember that?)

Support Our Troops!!

2B

 

[UAL_TECH]

Hmm, not sure that I agree. So instead of fighting and negotiating to regain some of what you gave in a profession you love, you should just quit and do something else? Hope you are not teaching that logic to your children (if you have them...).

I believe that the outsourcing of America will someday have no boundaries if we don't fight it. Someone is always gonna jump at the chance to do it cheaper. When does it end? Do we just jeep going back to school to become more "marketable?"

Why not?
That has always been the pilot stance as well.
Until they capitulated themselves and threw everyone else under the bus 'to make less'. :blink:

As far as the 'outsourcing' inference, pilots have no compulsion to allow outsourcing of everyone else but 'them'!!!
B) UT

There are Mainline pilots with 18 years making $40K on the E190, the latest Mainline plane.

And there are only about 3,000 pilots active out of a 6,000 pilot list from just five years ago. And yes, I agree the Mainline pilots making $40K are being raped, and that by their own fellow pilots that voted for those rates.

It is a miracle that the airine runs as well as it does.

Can't be raped if you dropped trou, bent over and agreed to it

 

[2BorNot2B]

Can't be raped if you dropped trou, bent over and agreed to it

'Ya know, in my opinion that is a very unqualified statement, I would like you to expand your views. First tho, what position do YOU hold in the Airline Industry? Secondly, would ask you how many years an dollars did you invest in attaining the qualifications to secure that job?

Next UAL, are you a Professional ... specialized in your work? There are not many options for people that have "specialized" in their chosen Career and have become Professionals! They are simply not qualified to go out and find a new job in some other line of work that will pay a realistic salary!

I do not know how else to say this ... but your statement is ludicious! If you believe for a moment that Unions have any power in this day and age ... you are a fool!

These Good Folks are trapped by the "Big Players" of $ and had no choice but to take the "scraps" offered! There are, unfortunately, many more qualified Plots even further down on the "Totem Pole" more than willing to take their jobs for even less! Just like outsourcing!

So just what would you have done with " this is what we offer ... take it or leave it"?

2B

 

[VOR]

Hmm, not sure that I agree. So instead of fighting and negotiating to regain some of what you gave in a profession you love, you should just quit and do something else? Hope you are not teaching that logic to your children (if you have them...).

I believe that the outsourcing of America will someday have no boundaries if we don't fight it. Someone is always gonna jump at the chance to do it cheaper. When does it end? Do we just jeep going back to school to become more "marketable?"

Good points all. Disagreement is ok but really, it is time to wake up and smell the coffee...the pay is never going to be back to the levels we saw prior to the low cost carrier craze, or even near those levels. ALPA isn't going to get it back, no matter how hard they try or how many bill boards are put up or informational pickets lines are staged. "Never" may be an overstatement but it would take some sort of government intervention like "regulation" to get salaries back and I don't think that is going to happen in my lifetime anyway. The government just does not have the smarts or the stomach for rationalizing the industry, much less re-regulating it at the level to make it long term profitable again.

Jet Blue, Southwest, Airtran, Frontier, etc aren't exactly overseas outsourcing and they are nipping at the heels of legacy carriers. Since deregulation, the industry is too easy to break into. Many use aviation to turn large fortune into a small one but others survive and those are the ones that keep the low cost mantra alive.

In my opinion, life is too short to spend every day griping about pay, benefits, retirement, etc. lost! Even the darling of the air carriers is looking for ways to trim costs, pay may not be at the top of the list but I'd bet has been discussed in the board room. No business can ignore the largest or second largest balance sheet line item. If you are smart enough to fly a big jet, you are sure smart enough to make decent money working at second career choice. Who says you have to go back to school. Take inventory, you'd be surprised how marketable you probably are. Think outside the cockpit.

What I teach my children is irrelevant but to be complete, I encourage them to be happy and maximize their potential. It sure does not include encouraging them to tilt at windmills and working at jobs where they are POed about the pay and benefits all the time. That does not sound like happy and I'd bet it is not healthy. Guess we need to define potential but with kids, they will get to that and we may not even be close to agreement with them on that one.

I am probably just lazy...If it isn't working for me, I'm going to do something that is. There is way too much alternative opportunity to stay in a job where I'm irritated because of the pay, or anything else for that matter. Yes, that is probably the easy way out but it is also the one where the money is...oh yes there is that!

Bottom line, if you can't stand the pay, don't. The pay must not be all that unbearable for most current pilots or more would be more changing careers and the line to enter would be much shorter. I have yet to show up for a flight and heard the announcement that it was canceled because the pilots all decided to go to work at new jobs today.

I really don't intend to be flip or to minimize your concern but the point I am attempting to make as gently as possible is that we all have options. Whether we choose to exercise them is a choice...what does the proverb say...life is the sum of our choices.

Hopefully we make the ones that make us both happy and prosperous.

 

[Itestwell]

Jet Blue, Southwest, Airtran, Frontier, etc aren't exactly overseas outsourcing and they are nipping at the heels of legacy carriers. Since deregulation, the industry is too easy to break into. Many use aviation to turn large fortune into a small one but others survive and those are the ones that keep the low cost mantra alive.


Do you know where jetBlue conducts maintenance on its A320 fleet?

http://www.aviationtoday.com/am/categories/bga/146.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5092701467.html


Think your profession could not be next? Yikes, I wouldn't be so sure....
Welcome to the "new" America.... :unsure:

 

[UAL_TECH]

'Ya know, in my opinion that is a very unqualified statement, I would like you to expand your views. First tho, what position do YOU hold in the Airline Industry? Secondly, would ask you how many years an dollars did you invest in attaining the qualifications to secure that job?

Next UAL, are you a Professional ... specialized in your work? There are not many options for people that have "specialized" in their chosen Career and have become Professionals! They are simply not qualified to go out and find a new job in some other line of work that will pay a realistic salary!

I do not know how else to say this ... but your statement is ludicious! If you believe for a moment that Unions have any power in this day and age ... you are a fool!

These Good Folks are trapped by the "Big Players" of $ and had no choice but to take the "scraps" offered! There are, unfortunately, many more qualified Plots even further down on the "Totem Pole" more than willing to take their jobs for even less! Just like outsourcing!

So just what would you have done with " this is what we offer ... take it or leave it"?

2B

Read my posts and get back to me.
B) UT

PS:
'Strike'

 

[2BorNot2B]

There is way too much alternative opportunity to stay in a job where I'm irritated because of the pay, or anything else for that matter. Yes, that is probably the easy way out but it is also the one where the money is...oh yes there is that!

Just curious ... what line of work are you in that gives you that flexibility?

2B

 

[UAL_TECH]

I do not know how else to say this ... but your statement is ludicious! If you believe for a moment that Unions have any power in this day and age ... you are a fool!

2B

Then what is the point you are trying to make?

UT

 

[2BorNot2B]

Then what is the point you are trying to make?

UT

Well.... my iterpertations of your posts are that if the Union Members had not "given in", they would not be in this predicament!

Hence, I assume you are a Union Member somewhere who still believes that Unions still yield the power they once did thruout Corporate America! That is History!

So what do you do for a Living?

2B

 

[UAL_TECH]

Well.... my iterpertations of your posts are that if the Union Members had not "given in", they would not be in this predicament!

Hence, I assume you are a Union Member somewhere who still believes that Unions still yield the power they once did thruout Corporate America! That is History!

So what do you do for a Living?

2B

See Name....Or do you need help?
UT
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Edited by Me
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PS:

Retired and screwed eh?

Pissed because your 'brothers' threw you under the bus as well.

 

[700UW]

You think the pilots name is not on a repair? Your ignorance of FAA regulations is pretty skimpy, but probably reflects the ignorance I see here.

Still waiting for your reply!

Last time I checked a pilot is a not an AMT nor authorized by the FAA to fix a plane or sign off a logbook. Nor did you go to A&P school and take the test nor do you have an Airframe and Powerplant license to fix the plane and signoff the book.

AMT is the person responsible for a repair, not a pilot.

Don't let the facts get in your way.