6 Muslin Imams remove from US Airways Flight

[PITbull]

It's this kind of lemming attitude that allows the real terrorist to claim a victory in the first place.

Anyone on this thread who thinks this was tactically justified should not be in command of or serving on an aircraft (in any position where the FARs require compliance with their instructions). Really. These guys are not about to pray in the gate area and then down the aircraft. Or prey on the aircraft and then try to take it. They'd slip aboard one at a time.

The PIC needs a psych eval and perhaps a trip thru a real CRM interview (as opposed to whatever HP doled out at the time) and the FAs need to take a freaking prozac.

Ask the Brits about nice white Christians who blow stuff up. Muslims are not the only threat--the trick is to identify the threat not the religion/creed/race/gender. It disgusts me that so many people think this crap is justified in the name of "safety."

What we really need is for a white male/female to try to take down an airliner and then see how many of the people in this thread who support this crap continue to do so when it directly impacts them.

Clue,

We are living in a different world. There are goups that have literally targeted jewish and American civilians. They have clearly said so and have recruited millions of muslims who have been brainwashed to believe that martyrdom is the highest honor in life and their mission is to kill.

There is no place for political correctness associated with this type of threat and those groups who wish to do the world harm who don't think or believe what they do. These crazy kooks are not looking to protect, recognize, or honor your right to life and freedom.

The public has no faith in the government's current security measures, therefore, I am all for a better way than the little security we have currently. No one wants lawsuits or to deliberately escalate more hate and anger. If you have a specific plan in protecting people or how to "identify a threat" without profiling a religion or group, please share it. I'm all for education.

That so called mandate is followed by today's Muslims as close as some of the outrageous death sentences and laws pronounced in the Christian Bible.

There simply are not a billion Muslims out killing anyone who is not. A true belief in God Christian, Jew or Muslim would NEVER kill another. What ever the religion it is the fringe, and the extremists doing that. Not the believers of the faith.

Are you able to distinquish between one who is a muslim of true peace and one who is not? Or is it just a matter of being at the wrong place at the wrong time?

 

[FA Mikey]

Are you able to distinquish between one who is a muslim of true peace and one who is not? Or is it just a matter of being at the wrong place at the wrong time?

I dont think I could even pick out a Muslim, after all its a belief not a look.

 

[ClueByFour]

Are you able to distinquish between one who is a muslim of true peace and one who is not? Or is it just a matter of being at the wrong place at the wrong time?

No. And neither are you, any flight attendant, or any pilot. Even the people who are trained to do so will tell you that it's not even close to an exact science.

But what are you going to do: profile "nervous" looking muslims or arabs on US flights? Judging by the extreme reaction in the case and hand and almost every incident since 9/11, it makes freaking sense that every muslim/arab on a plane is nervous: they have a pretty good chance of being booted from the aircraft because Maw Kettle got nervous and turned a note over to Muffy the flight attendant who had 6 credits of psychology at night school. "Flying while Arab" is the next "driving while black in Louisiana" or "suggesting that the war in Iraq was stupid in 2002."

I have been a victim of profiling: I lived in the UK as a person of Irish descent and despite having indefinite leave to remain, I often got the third degree at both security and immigration. As such, I learned a very valuable lesson--profiling does not a whit of good--the last bomb exploded in the UK was actually not an Irishman. The solution? Get nervous about the muslim population until such time as the folks in the Six Counties get antsy again. Profiling--it works great!

My plan?

1. Better cockpit doors than we have today.
2. Screen all cargo. Not "trusted shippers." Screen it.
3. More FAMs, with training by people who know better, not the morons currently running the Air Marshall service.
4. Treat everyone as a potential threat or at least defend as if everybody is. This includes everyone on the aircraft in the back. The guys up front get a pass since they can drive the thing into the ground.

Do I think that Islam tends to have more than it's fair share of nutjobs? Of course. Do I think that 99.9999% of "profiling" by people who don't know any better helps? No--it's indicative that the terrorists have won. We regularly deny liberty to people born in this country who are lifelong citizens because they are not of white-anglo-saxon descent. Which defeats the purpose of liberty to begin with.

But it's okay: the lemmings feel safer.

In this case, these individuals were screened by the FBI, dogs on their luggage, and the secret service--and what was found: nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zip. One of them was blind.

But it's okay: the lemmings feel safer. We waste time on crap like this and the bad guys are finding the real holes in the system.

But it's okay: the lemmings feel safer. Keep repeating that thought.

As for "the time for PC being over," I'd suggest to you that if that was prevailing attitude throughout history, we'd go ahead and re-instate slavery and take away a woman's right to vote--after all, those things were quite PC at the time. Want to go there? Liberty is good for the soul, and should not be arbitrarily denied to a class of people to make me, you, or any other lemming feel safer.

 

[PITbull]

In this case, these individuals were screened by the FBI, dogs on their luggage, and the secret service--and what was found: nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zip. One of them was blind.

But it's okay: the lemmings feel safer. We waste time on crap like this and the bad guys are finding the real holes in the system.

.

CNN reported that 3 of them did not have luggage and had one-way tickets.

I don't know what the answers are. OR if there is any answers. I don't think anyone here in the U.S really knows the enormity of this threat. I don't think, or at least haven't read or heard from any foreign policy maker or "so called expert on foreign affairs who have offered up any solutions in dealing with these wacko extremists who are definitely in control and becoming more powerful in strength and numbers than anything we could possibly imagine.

I also believe the world hasn't even touched the tip of the iceberg on how deep and pervasive this is. The worst has yet to happen...I pray that I'm no longer around when the unimaginable finally arrives.

 

[UPNAWAY]

4. Treat everyone as a potential threat or at least defend as if everybody is. This includes everyone on the aircraft in the back. The guys up front get a pass since they can drive the thing into the ground.



You do realize what a waste of a limited resource this is?
Checking crew, airline employees, little old Canadian ladies, mothers with kids in tow is a huge mistake! It only makes catching the bad guys harder not easier. And then when the TSA has people with your PC bent looking over them it means they are more than likely to give the little old lady the nth degree and give the Aribic looking Muslim dressed 20-35 year old males a complete pass. The TSA guy is probably afriad to even make eye contact with a "suspiciou looking" person! There is also a side benefit to this vigilence. If it becomes so difficult and uncomfortable for Arabs to freely go about thier business in the western world they maybe just maybe they will start to exert internal pressure on thier own comunities to stop this behavior!

 

[ClueByFour]

Checking crew, airline employees, little old Canadian ladies, mothers with kids in tow is a huge mistake! It only makes catching the bad guys harder not easier. And then when the TSA has people with your PC bent looking over them it means they are more than likely to give the little old lady the nth degree and give the Aribic looking Muslim dressed 20-35 year old males a complete pass. The TSA guy is probably afriad to even make eye contact with a "suspiciou looking" person! There is also a side benefit to this vigilence. If it becomes so difficult and uncomfortable for Arabs to freely go about thier business in the western world they maybe just maybe they will start to exert internal pressure on thier own comunities to stop this behavior!

Your fundamental mistake is believing that:

A: I'm being PC. Don't mistake it with pragmatic.

B: That grabbing the guys who scream "stereotype of terrorist according to the lemming law of today's average american" is actually going to prevent terrorist acts. Do you honestly believe that 6 guys, for instance, coming from the North American Imams Federation (who, BTW, notified everyone up to and including the FBI about their meeting, dates, times, places, etc) are going to try to take out an airliner? Do you think it's going to be the ones wearing "Evil Muslim Bomber" t-shirts? Ever occur to you that it maybe, just maybe, the real bad guys are just a wee bit smarter than that from an operational point of view?

Meanwhile, any Tom, Dick, and Harry can get just about anything they want, unscreened, into an LD-3 courtesy of their favourite shipper.

 

[Borescope]

That's funny, I've seen praying for years. America, educate yourself already!

A lot of people pray. But we don't normally pull out our ali baba rug and get down on our knee's in the aisle.

Let's face it, after the events of 9/11, people are more observant. This activity probably went on all over the place prior to 9/11, but now Americans are more observant. Praying on an airplane is ok. But standing up and praising Allah will get the authorities on you more often than not these days. These people need to have a little common sense.

All the politically correct crap needs to go. :angry:

Right on to US Airways for taking a stand

 

[hpflygirl]

Three of the six men were on my PHX-MSP flight this past Saturday. It didn't take them saying prayers in front of me to make me uncomfortable. They asked so many odd questions, I almost asked to have them removed from the flight. It gave me the chills tonight when I saw on the news they were the same men that were removed in MSP.

 

[BeenThereDoneThat]

That's funny, I've seen praying for years. America, educate yourself already!

Put this in a perspective that everyone might understand:
The aircrew arrives and sees the maintenance technicians praying over the flight logbook. Do you think the pilot is not going to think this is strange? Might the pilot think something is wrong with the aircraft? Might the pilot decide not to take the aircraft be cause he has an unfounded concern? Get a life! I have seen military pilots not taxi out because the crewchief made the sign of a cross when he gave the taxi out sign. If it looks strange, it is strange until it is explained. Being concerned of anything suspicious is a survival instinct. If you think that this had anything to do with prayer in its self, then you have missed the entire point and no amount of explaining is going to change your thoughts.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

What I find funny is they are screaming about the US's ignorance of them and their religion. Well what about their ignorance of US travel awareness?

I think it is all a ploy to further an agenda. Now they are saying you haven't heard the last of this. I bet they are all sitting back now laughing and praising each other on how well their plan worked out.

Just a view from an observer.

 

[ab320driver]

B: That grabbing the guys who scream "stereotype of terrorist according to the lemming law of today's average american" is actually going to prevent terrorist acts. Do you honestly believe that 6 guys, for instance, coming from the North American Imams Federation (who, BTW, notified everyone up to and including the FBI about their meeting, dates, times, places, etc) are going to try to take out an airliner? Do you think it's going to be the ones wearing "Evil Muslim Bomber" t-shirts? Ever occur to you that it maybe, just maybe, the real bad guys are just a wee bit smarter than that from an operational point of view?

The official report states that the men wanted to sit in separate areas of the aircraft. They then proceeded to ask for seat belt extenders, even though none of these men was severely overweight. There are plenty of "very unusual circumstances" here. A terrorism expert found the groups actions "troubling"- especially with the terror alert level at ORANGE. Bring down the aircraft? Maybe not. TESTING the system? Absolutely possible...

 

[FM2436]

What I find funny is they are screaming about the US's ignorance of them and their religion. Well what about their ignorance of US travel awareness?

I think it is all a ploy to further an agenda. Now they are saying you haven't heard the last of this. I bet they are all sitting back now laughing and praising each other on how well their plan worked out.

Just a view from an observer.

All last night and into this morning I was thinking/wonder the same thing; a ply to further a deliberate agenda. What are the chances the 6 will file a multi-million $$$ discrimation law suit against US Airways, AND WIN!!!

Apparently the president of the North American Imams Federation, a Omar Shahin is calling for a boycott of US Airways

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/22/...D8LI2ST00.shtml

 

[PITbull]

What I find funny is they are screaming about the US's ignorance of them and their religion. Well what about their ignorance of US travel awareness?

I think it is all a ploy to further an agenda. Now they are saying you haven't heard the last of this. I bet they are all sitting back now laughing and praising each other on how well their plan worked out.

Just a view from an observer.

You could be right. It may all be a strategic "set up" to make airlines or any one think twice bfore challenging a muslim. It could be a ploy to psychologically disarm the public by making them feel foolish for detaining a muslim.

 

[sharktooth]

Yeah, I remember where I was when I was watching a 'bunch of Latins' use our airplanes as weapons when they killed over 3000 people on our soil by slamming fully fueled jets into the World Trade Center towers, the Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania.

What, exactly, is your point? How are holy men carrying out their duties the same as misguided extremists? Why must the rest of us be frightened just because a misguided extremist like you will not take the time to learn about other peoples and their customs?

Would you be more enraged (terrorized?) had the death toll on 11Sep01 have been 500,000, including a severely damaged infrastructure as well as the "enemy" occupying our land for no apparent reason as the US is doing in Iraq?

Does watching a horrible event justify you punishing someone unrelated to the perps? Aren't you doing what the terrorists did, that of punishing innocent people based on skin color for acts of hatred committed by white people?

Congratulations, you have lowered yourself to their level.

 

[sharktooth]

You could be right. It may all be a strategic "set up" to make airlines or any one think twice bfore challenging a muslim. It could be a ploy to psychologically disarm the public by making them feel foolish for detaining a muslim.

These people were not just "challenged". They were detained so as to miss their flight, then, when found innocent, were denied further opportunities to travel.

It is a crying shame so many Americans are so pathetically withdrawn and ignorant they cannot see the dangers to our republic and Constitution when they act in ways even the Nazis would have been proud to emulate.

As far as a ploy, any intelligent person could only conclude that Americans seem easily distracted by irrelevancies.

Remember "common strategy"? That worked really well, didn't it?