6 Muslin Imams remove from US Airways Flight

[PITbull]

Pitbull, you missed the point. This is about prejudices under the disguise of "the ongoing war on terror". You of all people should know that we live in an America that still has it's stereotypes mixed up with reality. Maybe not on as grand a scales as the jihadest movement, but am I, a gay man, to fear ALL Christians because a few punks killed..no CRUXIFIED a gay kid in Wyoming because of their belief somehow that as a Christian, killing gays was acceptable? Or those that bomb abortion clinics or kill abortion doctors because it's what THEIR God, their "Christian" God would approve of?

Not all Christians are closed minded. Not all blacks fear water. Many whites CAN jump. And many gays like sports. Not ALL republicans are Christians and not ALL democrates are bleeding heart liberal.

And not ALL Muslims are jihad terrorist.

All this craziness over Islamic prayers. Read the article again. Some uneducated boob passed a note to a f/a, who never stopped to think about WHERE she was or WHAT these men were doing? Do you REALLY think that the REAL terrorist would make it obvious? If so, take a look back at 9/11. Those men assimilated to American culture and now the entire Arab community must pay?? If that's the case, the next time I see a Christian praying on an a/c, I'm having them removed. I find Christianity a threat to MY life. Much more than those of Islam who were doing nothing more than praying to THEIR God, something if a few Christians would do every once in a while might PREVENT much of the world's woes.

I didn't miss any point made on this thread.

You went back to your first post on this thread and edited quite a bit. In fact, you must have added what looks like an entire book on your opinion. It was not what you posted initially. And my first response/post was reading what was "orginially" posted above my post. NOT all that you added later in that original post.

I guess you had some time to review everyone else's post and went back.

I never said all Muslims are Jihads. Read all my posts.

I referred to the radical muslim extremists. Todays most radical extreme evangelical christians do not speak to denounce other religions nor do they manufacture and produce terroristic malicias to produce martyrs to go throughout the world and terrorize, assissinate, with an ambition to murder millions who are not of the Islamic faith.

I SEE A HUGE DIFFERENCE HERE. And I do think that most rational folks know that muslims can come in all colors, sizes, genders, nationalities.b With regard to sterotypes that you mention above...I don't think my life is being threatened by whether gays like sports, or whites can jump, or how liberal a Dem is...

Obviously, there was some interogation, and these 6 who said they didn't know each other just didn't stand up to any true light. Why they felt they needed to fabricate is up for some debate and curiousity.

 

[FA Mikey]

I agree. From what has been in the press, it appears that more than just their 'religion and Middle Eastern descent' was taken into account when asked to get off the plane.

For example, the French Press in Washington D.C. stated that six Muslims "were praying loudly and spouting some kind of anti-US rhetoric regarding the war in Iraq and Saddam Hussein."

Its great that they leave it at that and cannot come up with a single statement of Anti US rhetoric. I say plenty of anti US policy regarding this president and his OK what ever you say GOP congress. A large percentage of this country is anti war anti US policy in Iraq and has plenty of opinion on Hussein and his US government backed courts sentence of death. If that can have you thrown off a plane now many of us should be careful not to speak ill of the president and his failed polices.

They also said a flight attendant thought it was "curious" that the six men were asking for seat-belt extensions which they did not seem to need, as the extensions are given only to larger or obese passengers.

Was it one who needed it and 6 asking for the same thing, for there one colleague, perhaps the one who was blind and needed someone to ask for him being unable to see who was a crew member. Too bad there isn't a picture. Most FA's like to make comments about people and weight as they board, yet never unless ask bring them an extension. Be curious to find out how over weight and how tight a seat belt has to be prior to being able to get one.

This was beyond just "praying" as some of you have noted. They were ranting about a war in which we currently find ourselves. That coupled with the request for seatbelt extensions should set off a precautionary alarm... it doesn't take a far stretch of the imagination to discover ways in which seatbelt extensions may be used as a weapon.

Or anything else you can get easily into a carry on bag with out having to ask for it.

 

[LCC_#1]

Maybe not, but there are plenty of extremists or the Timothy McVeigh type in our own country probably sitting idle while the terrorists do their dirty work. Just when we begin to profile and turn our eyes to everyone but Islamo-fascist terrorists, we'll be caught with our pants down and see more Oklahoma City style killings by disillusioned white men.

Now we can agree on that.

 

[LCC_#1]

I didn't miss any point made on this thread.

You went back to your first post on this thread and edited quite a bit. In fact, you must have added what looks like an entire book on your opinion. It was not what you posted initially. And my first response/post was reading what was "orginially" posted above my post. NOT all that you added later in that original post.

I guess you had some time to review everyone else's post and went back.

I never said all Muslims are Jihads. Read all my posts.

I referred to the radical muslim extremists. Todays most radical extreme evangelical christians do not speak to denounce other religions nor do they manufacture and produce an terroristic malicias to produce martyrs to go throughout the world and terrorize, assissinate, with an ambition to murder millions who are not of the Islamic faith.

I SEE A HUGE DIFFERENCE HERE. And I do think that most rational folks know that muslims can come in all colors, sizes, genders, nationalities. With regard to sterotypes that you mention above...I don't think my life is being threatened by whether gays like sports, or whites can jump, or how liberal a Dem is...

Obviously, there was some interogation, and these 6 who said they didn't know each other just didn't stand up to any true light. Why they felt they needed to fabricate is up for some debate.

Pitbull, I don't believe I edited here..just added more to the last paragraph. And I am sorry for the oversight. Regardless, it is going to be difficult for one to decide WHAT is extreme. Did the praying issue START all of this? It's easy to see the airline's side when you work for one. I just want to make sure there really WAS a true threat.

You know, if I didn't work with so many people who make derrogatory statements about Arabs, Muslims, and Islam, I would not be writing what I am writing. And these folks don't slide in radicals or extremist anywhere in their words. Maybe you give people too much credit, but I CAN see some backwards crew that has only seen an Arab on an airplane and never said anything to them except "beverage?" And don't get me started on some of the coments from pilots. I am not a fan of religion, but I am a fan of a person's right to practice their religion. After all we have been thru in this country and endless educating fron TV and people still don't understand the rituals of Islam?

Yes, these Muslims...again, of what info we have..didn't handle things the best way and if I WAS going to practice any part of my religion that would make people uncomfortable, I would let the f/a's know about it so they could calm the nerves of passengers. But again, what other followers of religion have to justify what they believe, why they believe, and if they are an extremist or not?

I think one thing we do need to look at comes with the statement about there not being radical Christians organizing to denounce other religions... While I agree with you 100% on that, you just might want to get that across to the over 1 billion Muslims and many countries that view us as a Christian nation, trying to convert Islam to Christianity. Nobody has hit on that.

ARE we in a religious war? It sure seems that way.

MODERATOR: Thank you for the merge. I was forgetting what I said from one post to another.

 

[FA Mikey]

I referred to the radical muslim extremists. Todays most radical extreme evangelical christians do not speak to denounce other religions nor do they manufacture and produce an terroristic malicias to produce martyrs to go throughout the world and terrorize, assissinate, with an ambition to murder millions who are not of the Islamic faith.

There are plenty of far right churches and evangelical groups who promote and use hate, fear and intimidation. They have martyrs who kill DR's bomb clinics, planed parenthood centers. Gay bars, black churches, ETC.

They are like Muslim extremists, tie there hate filled agenda back to God and claim its for the greater good. A favorite article / interviewI read back in Sept of 2001 says it all. So to all you extremists be aware the fifth commandment. No matter how you read it, there is No leeway in it.

 

[PITbull]

Pitbull, I don't believe I edited here..just added more to the last paragraph. And I am sorry for the oversight. Regardless, it is going to be difficult for one to decide WHAT is extreme. Did the praying issue START all of this? It's easy to see the airline's side when you work for one. I just want to make sure there really WAS a true threat.

You know, if I didn't work with so many people who make derrogatory statements about Arabs, Muslims, and Islam, I would not be writing what I am writing. And these folks don't slide in radicals or extremist anywhere in their words. Maybe you give people too much credit, but I CAN see some backwards crew that has only seen an Arab on an airplane and never said anything to them except "beverage?" And don't get me started on some of the coments from pilots.

There is no doubt the point you make about some "backward" crews. I've flown with some in my day. They make a mountain out of a mole hill. I would think that once the authorities got involved that they could sift through the exaggerations and erroneous perceptions...but, for some reason, the interrogation lead the TSA to believe these 6 shouldn't be permitted to continue.

Most don't know the rhyme or reason some folks are pulled off the flights and others are permitted to continue on, after questioning with deep apologies. This may have started as a misunderstood, chanting, anti-war prayers, but ended as an unsubstantiated story by this group that raised too much speculation.

 

[LCC_#1]

There is no doubt the point you make about some "backward" crew. I've flown with some in my day. They make a mountain out of a mole hill. I would think that once the authorities got involved that they could sift through the exaggerations...but, for some reason, the interrogation lead the TSA to believe these 6 shouldn't be permitted to continue.

Like I posted previously, most don't know the rhyme or reason some folks are pulled off the flights and others are permitted to continue on, after questioning with deep apologies. This may have started as a misunderstood, chanting, anti-war prayers, but ended as an unsubstantiated story by this group that raised too much speculation.

And with that comes info of repeated suspicious behavior happening on this same flt time again. I am sworn to privacy but apparently the company has been informed many times about this particular flight.

I knew enough stink would cause the truth to surfice

 

[PITbull]

There are plenty of far right churches and evangelical groups who promote and use hate, fear and intimidation. They have martyrs who kill DR's bomb clinics, planed parenthood centers. Gay bars, black churches, ETC.

They are like Muslim extremists, tie there hate filled agenda back to God and claim its for the greater good. A favorite article / interviewI read back in Sept of 2001 says it all. So to all you extremists be aware the fifth commandment. No matter how you read it, there is No leeway in it.

I think you are making generalizations, rather than isolated exceptions. Its not that what you say has never happened in history, its not a'mandate' to kill gays and murder doctors who perform abortions.

And if you start going further back in history to make your argument, vs. citing the today's agenda... you should go back during the civil rights movement and bring up burning black churches, go back 5-700 years ago during the christian crusades or during the first 100 years after the death of Christ.

 

[luvthe9]

This is life in the new millinium. Get used to it. Better safe, than sorry, always. This was absolutely the correct thing to do, even if a few egos were bruised.

Absoutely right, better safe than sorry, imagine the heat we would have taken if something like 9/11 happened on that flight. I have no problem with it. I'm sure my passengers would agree!!!!!!!

 

[pilot]

There are plenty of far right churches and evangelical groups who promote and use hate, fear and intimidation. They have martyrs who kill DR's bomb clinics, planed parenthood centers. Gay bars, black churches, ETC.

They are like Muslim extremists, tie there hate filled agenda back to God and claim its for the greater good. A favorite article / interviewI read back in Sept of 2001 says it all. So to all you extremists be aware the fifth commandment. No matter how you read it, there is No leeway in it.

Wow!

You got a handle on the problem there Mikey. Good for you.

pilot

 

[FA Mikey]

I think you are making generalizations, rather than isolated exceptions. Its not that what you say has never happened in history, its not a'mandate' to kill gays and murder doctors who perform abortions.

And if you start going further back in history to make your argument, vs. citing the today's agenda... you should go back during the civil rights movement and bring up burning black churches, go back 5-700 years ago during the christian crusades or during the first 100 years after the death of Christ.

That so called mandate is followed by today's Muslims as close as some of the outrageous death sentences and laws pronounced in the Christian Bible.

There simply are not a billion Muslims out killing anyone who is not. A true belief in God Christian, Jew or Muslim would NEVER kill another. What ever the religion it is the fringe, and the extremists doing that. Not the believers of the faith.

 

[usflyguy]

here's the deal...if a pax brings something to the attention of a working crew member that the pax is not comfortable with,then we have to act on it by reporting it to the captain. be it a percieved mantiance issue or a cabin enviroment issue it has to be adressed. sounds to me the onboard crew did what they are supposed to do. if the company has a problem with the way the crew acted then they should investigate their own policies and proceedures!!! :angry:

 

[PITbull]

here's the deal...if a pax brings something to the attention of a working crew member that the pax is not comfortable with,then we have to act on it by reporting it to the captain. be it a percieved mantiance issue or a cabin enviroment issue it has to be adressed. sounds to me the onboard crew did what they are supposed to do. if the company has a problem with the way the crew acted then they should investigate their own policies and proceedures!!! :angry:

This is correct. If a pax brings somthing to the attention of the f/a they may warrant a potential issue/threat, then that must be brought to the attention of the Captain. That is the procedure in place.

 

[ClueByFour]

This is life in the new millinium. Get used to it. Better safe, than sorry, always. This was absolutely the correct thing to do, even if a few egos were bruised.

It's this kind of lemming attitude that allows the real terrorist to claim a victory in the first place.

Anyone on this thread who thinks this was tactically justified should not be in command of or serving on an aircraft (in any position where the FARs require compliance with their instructions). Really. These guys are not about to pray in the gate area and then down the aircraft. Or prey on the aircraft and then try to take it. They'd slip aboard one at a time.

The PIC needs a psych eval and perhaps a trip thru a real CRM interview (as opposed to whatever HP doled out at the time) and the FAs need to take a freaking prozac.

Ask the Brits about nice white Christians who blow stuff up. Muslims are not the only threat--the trick is to identify the threat not the religion/creed/race/gender. It disgusts me that so many people think this crap is justified in the name of "safety."

What we really need is for a white male/female to try to take down an airliner and then see how many of the people in this thread who support this crap continue to do so when it directly impacts them.

 

[Gilding the Lily]

It's this kind of lemming attitude that allows the real terrorist to claim a victory in the first place.

Anyone on this thread who thinks this was tactically justified should not be in command of or serving on an aircraft (in any position where the FARs require compliance with their instructions). Really. These guys are not about to pray in the gate area and then down the aircraft. Or prey on the aircraft and then try to take it. They'd slip aboard one at a time.

The PIC needs a psych eval and perhaps a trip thru a real CRM interview (as opposed to whatever HP doled out at the time) and the FAs need to take a freaking prozac.

Ask the Brits about nice white Christians who blow stuff up. Muslims are not the only threat--the trick is to identify the threat not the religion/creed/race/gender. It disgusts me that so many people think this crap is justified in the name of "safety."

What we really need is for a white male/female to try to take down an airliner and then see how many of the people in this thread who support this crap continue to do so when it directly impacts them.

If you are a pilot or serve on an aircraft, please tell me which route. I do not want to place my life in your hands.