5&5 makes too much sense
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The Goose
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When one stops to consider what the company wants to shed, that would certainly thin the ranks enough. Considering how little it would actually cost the company, it would be an excellent idea. That's why it will never happen unless it's added into any TA wording with the intent of getting the old farts to bite and screwing over the younger guys as has been done for as long as I've been at AA.
Part of the conditions would, no doubt, include elimination of the pension which wouldn't be a bad deal if the investment choices weren't restricted to the POS investment firm AMR recently "sold". A 6% company match on 401k funds would be good for all if they had enough time left at work to build their 401.
The company could probably retire 50% or more of the TWU population in one whack and there's really not any good reason not to as we obviously hold very little value to them. That would be far too much like common sense for anyone with a MBA to digest.
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AA could dictate a specific number of retirees at the maximum and let the seniority list determine who can go, assuming there were more applicants for the package than the operation could stand to lose. I think their game plan has more to do with a bankruptcy than making money. AA gives up profitable routes and parks airplanes, lays off rampers and can't get a plane onto an empty gate to shut down the engines for lack of management and common sense. Here's an ideAA (new topic header coming) ... FINE airlines that let planes sit on the ramp off any open gate with engines running for more than 3 minutes.
If AA wouldnt even give the VBR to the line what makes you think that they would offer a 5 and 5? I think it would be a disaster even worse than the time they did that in the early 80s, too many would leave and they would have trouble maintaining their operations.
Other than MCI and STL we havent seen all these announced reductions take place. In the Summer of 2008 they claimed there would be a big layoff in the fall, that didnt happen, when I took office this past January they said they were cutting around 60 heads out of JFK, not counting the B-ck, that didnt happen.
While I would like to see a 5 and 5 I doubt its going to happen, the only way they would offer it is if they could backfill with OSMs on the line.
Other than MCI and STL we havent seen all these announced reductions take place. In the Summer of 2008 they claimed there would be a big layoff in the fall, that didnt happen, when I took office this past January they said they were cutting around 60 heads out of JFK, not counting the B-ck, that didnt happen.
While I would like to see a 5 and 5 I doubt its going to happen, the only way they would offer it is if they could backfill with OSMs on the line.
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...the only way they would offer it is if they could back fill with OSMs on the line.
Now there's an idea. OSMs could do B checks in a closely supervised hanger. The number of retirees would be capped at the amount calculated to buy off on the contract, and history of the 1980s would not be repeated.
Theoretically. I do not think AA will do it though. To do so, would create a reason for pay increase of the A&Ps they still have, and position the company for success. Nah. Can't do it.
Now there's an idea. OSMs could do B checks in a closely supervised hanger. The number of retirees would be capped at the amount calculated to buy off on the contract, and history of the 1980s would not be repeated.
Theoretically. I do not think AA will do it though. To do so, would create a reason for pay increase of the A&Ps they still have, and position the company for success. Nah. Can't do it.
Tex-Mech
Veteran
That would be a concession worth striking for. How about instead of conceding future AMT pensions, and jobs for a 5 and 5, we fight to protect those who will be fixing the planes we fly on when we retire.
TWU informer
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All they have to do is offer a free bucket of minnows and about two boxes of ammo and Tulsa will pass whatever concessions are being sought. No need to offer an elaborate and expensive 5 and 5.
Runwaysticker
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- Dec 24, 2007
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I dont see the MCI guys bumping the juniority list, only stations AFW or DFW might see movement and then maybe, on the other hand I think you will see more STL guys willing, but with 4/10/2001 occ time they wont bump many I see a lot of retirees....................
Hopeful
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Up until last year's recall where they exhausted the recall list, JFK still had some former TWA people with rights to JFK.I dont see the MCI guys bumping the juniority list, only stations AFW or DFW might see movement and then maybe, on the other hand I think you will see more STL guys willing, but with 4/10/2001 occ time they wont bump many I see a lot of retirees....................
But since the list is no more, the bump and roll will be split amongst a few stations. But I can't see anyone not old enough to retire taking the layoff knowing MCIE is permantly closed.
Getting laid off is difficult on employee and family with limited choices, , but bumping into JFK has to be even more difficult given the cost of living here, let alone commuting back to MO.
Runwaysticker
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- Dec 24, 2007
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I agree, the guys left in MCI were either MCI orginals or STL Which turned down recall, the commuting thru ORD or DFW will be a nightmare with the flight reductions, unless they are openings at the old DELTA hanger it will be a hard choice, and with the company pushing for more OSMs in overhaul AMT openings could be scarce... :unsure:
Well, I can tell you about one -- ME. I've had more than enough of this BS, constantly witnessing on this BB how we're (TWA) to blame for just about every plague that's befallen AA and the general unwelcome certain posters point our way.
Union brothers, my (text excised).
That'd describe me, and a few others close to me on the list -- been at MCI since I hired in 23 years ago. Hell, there's even a couple of old fools here with more seniority in this business (TWA/AA) than I have on this earth! I've never been laid off (close a time or two) and never bumped out of here. Not quite 50, hoping the SIS will allow me to jump off this wreck waiting to happen and run away screaming for joy. Looking at a job that'll pay $.60 MORE than I'm making now TO START.
Bob is right about this industry pushing far too many mechanics out for good -- several have left for the railroads and utility companies. I was looking at a job in maintenance for a school district when I saw what I'm looking at now.
MCI transplant
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<_< ----- Good Luck to you Ken! It's been great working with you! And I'm sure we have.------- It's been one hell'va ride!!!
Good luck Ken. Glad to hear it.
Still havent come across an ex-A&P on any street corners with a tin cup in hand.
So thats 60 cents an hour to start above your topped out wage at AA in Kansas City, and people like Eoleson, FWAAA and Frequent Flier seem to think the airlines will have no problem replacing us in places like New York, Boston, LA and SFO. Oh thats right, unemployment is @ 15% that means that nobody is hiring anywhere, nobody is retiring dying or leaving where they are because unemployment is so high!
So for guys with the skills we have they can start at wherever it is you are going at $33/hr vs AAs starting wage of $19/hr. Yep the scabs will pack up their tools walk away from $35/hr jobs to go and work for the glamorous airlines. They cant wait to work Thankgiving, Christmas and all the Holidays for at best half pay, they cant wait to get a whole one week of vacation a year and they will feel real secure knowing they can bank 5 whole days of sick time. Yep they'll be lining up all right, who knows maybe FWAAA, Eoleson, and Frequent Flier will use this opportunity to give a career in Aircraft Maint a try.
FWAAA, Eoleson and Frequent Flier are correct when they claim there are plenty of A&P mechanics out there, where they are wrong is thinking that they are lining up for jobs in the Airlines when they can make more elsewhere. And if they can find jobs where the starting pay is $13/hr higher where do you think they are going to go?
