Labor Costs

[Skymess]

The information from the internet cannot be independently verified. B)

 

[nbmcg01]

The information from the internet cannot be independently verified. B)

I remember when Carl Ichan sent out "salary figures" to the frequent flyers during our f/a strike.
He quoted that the average TWA f/a salary was $50,000 a year and how could they(the f/a) possibly be striking for more money? I immediately sent him my 2 previous W2s and a bill for the difference saying that I had been "shorted" and to please correct asap due to limited funds (as I was out on strike..lol) They had included bennies and such costs as hotel rooms in the figure to get the $50,000. All of which were the normal cost of doing business and not actual salary. Businesses can "cook" the figures to look anyway they want/need.

 

[Boomer]

TVS is simple to obtain on a pure value basis, boomer, but it's not that simple to allocate costs on an org unit basis. M&E has huge costs and little revenue directly associated with their cost centers.

Then there are the departments you see as worthless but are a neccesary evil in a corporation like AMR. How much of HR do you allocate to each workgroup?? They don't proportionally use the same amount of resource.

How about Tax? Treasury? Investor Relations? Corp Comm? Legal?

Likewise, how do you split up the revenue per employee??

eolesen,

Labor Expense is what the TVS states. Anything outside the direct and indirect compensation paid to the employee is soley the CHOICE of Management: it is called overhead. Failure to manage overhead is not the result of Union Contract, it is the failure of management to manage.

In fact, since the AA/TWU Home Invasion of 2003: M&R Headcount has been reduced by over 4000 heads for which the TWU M&R were refused monetary credit towards their "goal target."

Using your logic, and the fact that we have not materially reduced the footprint M&E occupies on a systemwide basis: M&E heads are now more expensive than ever as we are spread ever thinner over the empty spaces. Fewer heads, same area: you guys are costing me more per square foot.

We asked the Company and their Consultants to consolidate and cover: the Consultants agreed, while those that would loose reports and rank sought to shank change.

Just ask how much money has been spent on the MAPS program...all the while varying amounts of sabotage to the program have been performed by those with something to lose.

 

[jimntx]

Point of order.... Not including the board of directors, SWA has 40 (count 'em, 40) Vice Presidents, and about about 34,000 employees. AA's got 44 Vice Presidents, and about twice the employees WN does. Simple math would say that WN has more VP's per employee than AA does.



I'll spare you the list from AMR. There are 44 at AA, plus four at Eagle and one at Beacon (which has since been spun out of AMR).

So, go ahead and point out how inefficient and bloated AMR management is, but remember that when you make comparisons to WN, they've got more VP's per front-line employee than AMR.

Not just opinion, guys. Facts.

If WN's really the model to follow, then AMR needs more management to be like WN.

One small, but telling difference in your comparisons that you seem to have omitted (inadvertent, I'm sure)...while WN may have more V-Ps per employee, they are sure as heck making more profit per employee than AMR. And, they have the most unionized workforce in the entire airline industry in the U.S. So, there is some difference (I would not hazard a guess being just a lowly flight attendant) between the WN V-Ps and the AMR V-Ps.

I would love for us to follow the WN model. Maybe we could make a profit.

 

[eolesen]

More profit per employee, absolutely. Perhaps the fact that they have a lot more management is why they deliver a consistent product? Maybe one of the reasons they have happy employees is because management is actually able to be engaged on a regular basis, as opposed to being seen as this Gestapo like enemy who has to multitask to the point of ridiculousness while they try to serve multiple masters?...

But I digress.....

WN is profitable. But don't overlook the fact banks and the mortgage industry were profitable a few years back as well.

WN's been shaking the seat cushions for loose change the last couple financial quarters, and as their hedge honeymoon backs off, I think you're going to see even WN singing the "pay extra for everything other than your seat" blues.

 

[Bob Owens]

More profit per employee, absolutely. Perhaps the fact that they have a lot more management is why they deliver a consistent product? Maybe one of the reasons they have happy employees is because management is actually able to be engaged on a regular basis, as opposed to being seen as this Gestapo like enemy who has to multitask to the point of ridiculousness while they try to serve multiple masters?...

Once again management is responsible for the culture they create. Unfortunately for the lower ranks of management who only enforce what has been dictated from above the employees can only react to the management they have access to. Management at AA was the party who treated the employees like the enemy as they slashed wages and benifits, they went as far as taking the clothes off their backs. Management went way beyond what was reasonable and despite what management would like to happen the employees havent forgotten. SWA mangement never did that to their employees. Thats why SWA has better productivity. Its not contract language its the way the company treats their employee and nothing says more than pay.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

WN's been shaking the seat cushions for loose change the last couple financial quarters,

My compliments. REALLY nice turn of phrase.

 

[FWAAA]

On the front page of Yahoo! today:

Five Shocking Paychecks

Are you making what you're worth? Even in a tight economy, some workers are taking home more money than their job titles might reveal. Here's a look at five careers that come with surprising salaries--and what you need to do to land one.

Aircraft Mechanic
A vocational school training program can land you a solid living as an aircraft mechanic. The $40,000 to $80,000 earnings range reflects the specialized training required to perform avionics repair and maintenance. Aircraft mechanics inspect landing gear, instruments, cabin pressurizing systems, aviation electronics, and more.

The Lowdown: The FAA certifies 170 trade schools to train aircraft mechanics in the craft. Most programs take 19 to 24 months to complete, although some schools offer 2- and 4-year degrees in avionics or aviation technology.

Average Salary: $49,670 (BLS, 2007)

http://education.yahoo.net/degrees/article..._paychecks.html

 

[Bob Owens]

On the front page of Yahoo! today:



http://education.yahoo.net/degrees/article..._paychecks.html

What do you expect from the corporate media?

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

What do you expect from the corporate media?

Really? Do you disbelieve their stories when it runs in favor of your position? Say stories on compensation and overpaid execs? I'll remember this so we can disregard one of those next time it's posted.

 

[Hopeful]

Really? Do you disbelieve their stories when it runs in favor of your position? Say stories on compensation and overpaid execs? I'll remember this so we can disregard one of those next time it's posted.

Hard to believe stories on compensation and overpaid execs when the company defends the practice by claiming our execs make beans compared to their counterparts at other firms,

 

[Bob Owens]

Really? Do you disbelieve their stories when it runs in favor of your position? Say stories on compensation and overpaid execs? I'll remember this so we can disregard one of those next time it's posted.

Its misleading. They put the range from $40,000 to $80,000. Starting pay for a mechanic at AA is as low as $9.58 and hour which is less than $20,000. A topped out mechanic at AA earns $68,000. It leaves out the fact that a new only gets "5" paid days off a year-most people average 20. Thats the same as working an extra three weeks a year. No Greens fees are covered either.

 

[FWAAA]

The reason I posted the Yahoo! link y'all are aguing about seems to have gone right over your collective heads. The article begins by claiming that it's a list of several jobs with paychecks that are surprisingly high, when everyone knows that aircraft mechanics (with a few exceptions) have taken huge paycuts over the last few years. If the writer is surprised at how much the average wrench makes now, imagine how shocked they would have been in 2001, prior to any of the paycuts.

 

[Mach85ER]

FWAAA,

Don't worry. I caught it.

I've seen more than a few of these yahoo stories. Most are like this one. They seem to be written by some clueless early twenty-something. Outside of DFW and TUL, most mechanics have to live in generally high cost of living metro areas.

If they'd tried living on 40K in one of the high cost areas without daddy paying their rent and student loans, they'd sing a different tune about how great money that is.

 

[frontline]

Its misleading. They put the range from $40,000 to $80,000. Starting pay for a mechanic at AA is as low as $9.58 and hour which is less than $20,000. A topped out mechanic at AA earns $68,000. It leaves out the fact that a new only gets "5" paid days off a year-most people average 20. Thats the same as working an extra three weeks a year. No Greens fees are covered either.

The 5 is crap, but the average is not 20. It is more like 10, the old two-weeks off standard.

Beans compared to what Europeans get.