460 jets ordered

[Bob Owens]

Maybe the company should setlle for 440 and pay us.

With all these new airplanes coming in wont that mean less OH work? It may impact the line as well but not as much IMO.

The order makes getting a good wage even more important than ever because new airplanes are going to cost jobs because they will require less maintenance, also the company may claim that new aircraft are new work. We also know that the people with the money arent as concerned about AA posted losses as they would like us to believe.

Another reason to look real closely at the Companys Article 1 and the 25% spinoff language. If Boeing has to build all these airplanes they contracted to at the Airshow they, or one of their vendors, may look to purchase Tulsa. Doesnt Spirit, right next door do work for Boeing and isnt there already a rail line set up to ship their work for final assy in Washington?? Oklahoma is just as red as the Carolinas, maybe even more so. Not only could the buyer pick up facilities but they could get the expertise as well. Mybe they could do final assy in the AA facilities?

AA could expand their operation at DWH, from what I hear there's loads of room and the city is anxious to make up for some of the lost revenue from losing the stadium, and if AA gets the 7 day coverage in place at DWH they could build enough capacity there to do their whole fleet. Maybe thats why they suddenly backed off from the 7 day issue at the other two bases.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Maybe the company should setlle for 440 and pay us.

With all these new airplanes coming in wont that mean less OH work? It may impact the line as well but not as much IMO.

The order makes getting a good wage even more important than ever because new airplanes are going to cost jobs because they will require less maintenance, also the company may claim that new aircraft are new work. We also know that the people with the money arent as concerned about AA posted losses as they would like us to believe.

Another reason to look real closely at the Companys Article 1 and the 25% spinoff language. If Boeing has to build all these airplanes they contracted to at the Airshow they, or one of their vendors, may look to purchase Tulsa. Doesnt Spirit, right next door do work for Boeing and isnt there already a rail line set up to ship their work for final assy in Washington?? Oklahoma is just as red as the Carolinas, maybe even more so. Not only could the buyer pick up facilities but they could get the expertise as well. Mybe they could do final assy in the AA facilities?

AA could expand their operation at DWH, from what I hear there's loads of room and the city is anxious to make up for some of the lost revenue from losing the stadium, and if AA gets the 7 day coverage in place at DWH they could build enough capacity there to do their whole fleet. Maybe thats why they suddenly backed off from the 7 day issue at the other two bases.

All predicted by others last year, Bob.

 

[Bob Owens]

You had made reference to a design from Rolls - I looked the term up you'd used as I wasn't familiar with it and it turned out to be a "one-chunk" rotor and blades design. Damage one blade and pull the entire spool - not so with the Pratt motor which is running and being tested with supposedly excellent results. A planetary reduction unit as opposed to a low pressure turbine and long shaft would cut much weight, shorten the engine, and probably allow (as claimed) more power to be extracted from the engine but I can't see how the speed of spool-up would be helped - rather, it would gain Rs rather slowly, it seems, as the compressor spool would be driving the reduction gears and N1.

Not much technical info is available anywhere I've looked so I'm guessing a bit as to the Pratt's operation.

I dissagree on the spool up. Right now the N-2 spins up the N-1(Fan) by blowing air across the N1 turbine, N2 blows N1 (fan)up to speed, with the new pratt design the fan is directly driven and will spin up diectly in proportion with the compressor.

 

[SBN580]

Where have you been?
American flew 35 A300's for over 20 years.

Yes, now that you mention it, I do remember. Sorry!

 

[SBN580]

Not too far off.

The Japan bombing of Pearl Harbor pushed the US into a war than we didn't want. Japan's actions also pushed Germany fast-forward into a fight they wished more time for. Anyway, regarding this latest deal with Airbus vs Boeing, it's all the same
when you look under the " hood" . There are just as many foreign parts in Boeing as there in Airbus. Maybe the big ticket items are made up north, but the rest come from the far east.

Germany will soon control all of Europe, sound familiar ?

The Euro is breathing it's last breath, only Germany can save Europe from financial distruction.
Me thinks, it's a good a good idea, not to piss them off, right now.

So it's a good deal.

A business professor I work with told me the best economy in Europe is Poland's. And it is true, when you look under the hood, airliners have parts from all over the world.

 

[SBN580]

"The Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?" Otter

"Forget it, he's on a roll" Boon

From Animal house


Pretty close to the same thing here. :blink:

Dean Wormer, is that you? So, I wasn't perfect for a moment with American fleet history, but I assure you I know how the US entered WWII. My point is that when I think of AA I think Boeing and McDonnell Douglas. I do not associate AA with Airbus aircraft first thing in my head.

 

[Frank Szabo]

I dissagree on the spool up. Right now the N-2 spins up the N-1(Fan) by blowing air across the N1 turbine, N2 blows N1 (fan)up to speed, with the new pratt design the fan is directly driven and will spin up diectly in proportion with the compressor.

I understand the proportionate part - I was speaking about the additional load on the N2 spool as now, all it has to do is compress air and feed it to the diffuser, cans and thenthe HPT - the LPT runs the N1 fan up front. The Rolls RB is a different duck altogether with its three separate shafts and spools. Where's the power to spin the compressor coming from? Jim Little? (If anyone should understand suction and blowing ...)

I'm curious re: the design, as I said, but can't find much in the way of info, like # of HPT wheels and such as I can't see a need for an LPT with the Pratt arrangement. Sufficient number of wheels would mean a quicker spool up but again, no info.

 

[Super FLUF]

This agreement does not involve any aircraft from any of the smaller manufacturers - Embraer, Bombardier, or others... a major order for 100-140 seat jets to mfrs other than Airbus or Boeing could change the way A and B have to compete and price their products.

Arpey said today that there will be no 100-120 seat jet as the A-319 will fill that niche market for us.

Obviously the PUPsters have determined the operating economics of the 319s to be comparable to that of a product like the C-Series. Having a common type rating for the 319, 320, & 321 doesn't hurt either.

 

[FWAAA]

Arpey may be right, but UA and US both configure their A319s with 120 seats (126 at DL but at least 12 of them are F), so unless AA makes a deal with the APA and orders some 90-100 seaters, AA will have nothing between 63 seats (its F-configured 70 seat CRJ-700s) and 120-seat A319s. Something with 100 seats still needs just two FAs and two pilots, and would seem to be an ideal size for many markets (like those where US and B6 fly their 100 seaters). 120 seat A319s need three FAs and are almost twice the capacity of the CRJ-700s. Still looks like a substantial gap.

 

[737823]

Statement from Laura Glading – President, APFA – regarding American Airline’s announcement of historic airplane purchase:
This morning, American Airlines management announced that the company has ordered 460 new narrow-body planes. The company plans to acquire 260 planes from the Airbus A320 family and 200 Boeing 737s. The company will be taking advantage of approximately $13 billion of committed financing provided by the two manufacturers.

I applaud management’s decision to take the company in a new direction, diversify our fleet, and modernize the in-flight experience for our passengers. I am especially encouraged by the fuel efficiency these new planes will provide. This purchase represents a calculated and strategic move to bring our airline back to profitability. Frankly, it is the first such effort we have seen in years.

But the work is not done. Shareholders should not be satisfied until management has secured both the physical and human capital to be successful and addressed a labor situation that has lingered for three years. Today’s announcement shows the company is capable of making strategic decisions. We call on management to put the same effort toward reaching a comprehensive agreement with its employees that recognizes the sacrifices flight attendants and others made to avoid bankruptcy and allow for today’s promising announcement.

That Boeing and Airbus were willing to provide American Airlines with favorable financing terms is a testament to the sacrifices that Flight Attendants and others made in 2003 when the company was on the verge of bankruptcy. Without the generous salary and benefits givebacks of the APFA, totaling over $2 billion, American Airlines would have neither the capital nor credit needed to make such an ambitious purchase. Now that the Board of Directors has made this important and forward thinking decision, it is time to address the needs of the employees that will enable these new planes to fly, particularly we Flight Attendants that have been negotiating a new contract for over three years. The introduction of the Airbus A320 family shines a bright light on all of the unionized employees who will need to be trained and certified to operate and maintain the new equipment.

I have already had extensive conversations with American Airlines management about this development and how it relates to our ongoing contract negotiations. I look forward to continuing our contract talks in light of this new reality. In fact, I will be writing to each member of the American Airlines Board of Directors urging them to jump start negotiations by utilizing this new optimism in the company’s direction.

http://www.apfa.org/content/category/9/17/626/

Glading, shareholders care about performance and longer stability but not the contract for APFA members. Last I checked other carriers that have declared BK have still placed large aircraft orders so its not as if FA concessions made the order possible. If anything 5-7 years after a filing AA would be in a more competitive position to access credit markets.

Wow. She doesn't seem to understand that the company is pursuing the fleet renewal (and expansion) to reduce operating costs and improve its overall position by using it as justification for a new contract. AA has made their offer public and the FAs don't like it. Banks, manufacturers, and others will provide financing for capital such as aircraft and facilities but not for payroll. Besides hasn't Glading stated that they are largely in accord with the company on many of the outstanding articles?

Josh

 

[Tex-Mech]

American said the two types of new planes will replace its aging MD-80, 757 and 767 fleet as well as its newer 737-800 fleet


Don't look good for TAESEL since RR engines will be phased out with the replacement of the 757. Do they offer us a job with Rolls or do they bring in their own people?

And thanks to Larry, we can all go to DWH for 7 day coverage.

 

[Overspeed]

And thanks to Larry, we can all go to DWH for 7 day coverage.

We have be doing 7 days and holidays for years on the line. Come on in, the water's fine!

 

[Overspeed]

Yes, now that you mention it, I do remember. Sorry!

And AA was the one that came up with the idea that created Airbus. They owe us a discount!

http://aviationtrivia.blogspot.com/2010/09/how-american-airlines-shaped-a300.html

 

[Super FLUF]

so unless AA makes a deal with the APA and orders some 90-100 seaters, AA will have nothing between 63 seats (its F-configured 70 seat CRJ-700s) and 120-seat A319s.

If the economics of flying a 120 seat aircraft were virtually the same (or just slightly higher) than flying a 100 seater, why not just fly the 120 seater into that market? You could undercut the competitor flying 70-100 seaters by dumping the extra seats on to the route and slashing the price. You could also advertise the fact that you are flying "mainline" aircraft in and out vs. the competitors RJs. Particularly appealing to our bread and butter business travelers. Have you ridden in a EMB-175 or 190? They are bigger than a traditional RJ, but they are still and RJ. Cramped, and no bag space. A-319 = much, much more comfortable.

I am guessing that mainline AA is about to re-capture A LOT of flying that was ceded to Eagle over the past 10 years. This is good news for employees and customers alike.

 

[eolesen]

I wouldn't get too excited about the A320 or even the A319 replacing RJ's anywhere. You'll still have all the issues related to the MD80 aside from fuel consumption --- higher operating costs due to carrying more airframe, an extra cabin crew member, paying higher landing fees and likely having a different book rate for the cockpit crew.

Trying to undercut will hurt AA far more than it will the 70-90 seat guys.