2015 Pilot Discussion.

[nevergiveup]

"Yes, the East offered the NIC."...............Wye did they not take it when offered?

 
The arbs know the west was offered the Nic. They also know the west voted 98% in favor of the mou. They as well know the west got their money back. The arbs hands are not tied. 

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Again, why all the legal postings? The West Committee admitted they had no legal right to that list. And asked that it be gifted.

Either will, or won't be given. Easy peasy, will be what it is. No angst necessary at this juncture, more curiosity I guess.

 

[luvthe9]

The arbs know the west was offered the Nic. They also know the west voted 98% in favor of the mou. They as well know the west got their money back. The arbs hands are not tied.

Really, "flounder" says you were not offered the NIC ..............but then again he likes to fib a lot.............this is going to be fun to watch !



"They did tell all the Wye River attendees the reality. One side listened, the other didnt."



"Looking back, that offer must look like a home run to any West pilot right now,"



"Our former MEC and our union leadership played a very high stakes game of poker by not dealing at Wye River. Freund was right, we were risking everything..and right now, it looks like we lost. They need to take responsibility for that."

 

[53Cactusboy]

Again, why all the legal postings? The West Committee admitted they had no legal right to that list. And asked that it be gifted.
Either will, or won't be given. Easy peasy, will be what it is. No angst necessary at this juncture, more curiosity I guess.

Please be kind enough to show EXACTLY where & what it says you claim. Take your time.

 

[luvthe9]

Please be kind enough to show EXACTLY where & what it says you claim. Take your time.

Mighty "desperate" today Dorothy........... I wonder Wye.



How is the PHX sickout going?

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Page 58 of the West Brief

"3. The West Committee understands that, despite the Ninth Circuit’s decision regarding USAPA’s conduct in negotiating the MOU, there is no legal argument to be made that the Nicolau Award is now binding in this SLI proceeding as a consequence of the terms of the America West-US Airways Transition Agreement.41 Nonetheless, as an equitable matter....."

 

[53Cactusboy]

Mighty "desperate" today Dorothy........... I wonder Wye.



How is the PHX sickout going?

 
[SIZE=24pt]arbitration[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Also found in: [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Dictionary[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Thesaurus[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Medical[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Financial[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Encyclopedia[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Wikipedia[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]Arbitration[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]The submission of a dispute to an unbiased third person designated by the parties to the controversy, who agree in advance to comply with the award—a decision to be issued after a hearing at which both parties have an opportunity to be heard.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Arbitration is a well-established and widely used means to end disputes. It is one of several kinds of [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Alternative Dispute Resolution[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], which provide parties to a controversy with a choice other than litigation. Unlike litigation, arbitration takes place out of court: the two sides select an impartial third party, known as an arbitrator; agree in advance to comply with the arbitrator's award; and then participate in a hearing at which both sides can present evidence and testimony. The arbitrator's decision is usually final, and courts rarely reexamine it….[/SIZE]

 

[luvthe9]

Page 58 of the West Brief
"3. The West Committee understands that, despite the Ninth Circuits decision regarding USAPAs conduct in negotiating the MOU, there is no legal argument to be made that the Nicolau Award is now binding in this SLI proceeding as a consequence of the terms of the America West-US Airways Transition Agreement.41 Nonetheless, as an equitable matter....."

Oh boy, now you're going to get him really upset with these "small" facts........... The BOA will not make the same mistake Nicolau did.





"The arbitrator's decision is usually final, and courts rarely reexamine it"...................key word "usually"..........I guess not in this case.

 

[Pi brat]

Page 58 of the West Brief
"3. The West Committee understands that, despite the Ninth Circuit’s decision regarding USAPA’s conduct in negotiating the MOU, there is no legal argument to be made that the Nicolau Award is now binding in this SLI proceeding as a consequence of the terms of the America West-US Airways Transition Agreement.41 Nonetheless, as an equitable matter....."

That didn't take long at all.

 

[53Cactusboy]

Page 58 of the West Brief

"3. The West Committee understands that, despite the Ninth Circuit’s decision regarding USAPA’s conduct in negotiating the MOU, there is no legal argument to be made that the Nicolau Award is now binding in this SLI proceeding as a consequence of the terms of the America West-US Airways Transition Agreement.41 Nonetheless, as an equitable matter....."

 
Uhm...you miss a few sentences:
 
[SIZE=12pt].....  Nonetheless, as an equitable matter—and[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]this proceeding is at heart an equitable one—the East Committee is wrong to assert that using the Nicolau Award as the starting point for the integration would deny the East pilots their “true” seniority equities.  What the foregoing demonstrates is that for the past nine years, the East pilots did not exercise “true seniority equities” that they owned outright, but rather that they exercised seniority rights in an East-only list that always remained—up until USAPA’s final unlawful act in negotiating the MOU—subject to divestment upon the achievement of a JCBA.  In other words, after Arbitrator Nicolau settled the equities between East and West pilots arising out of the US Airways-America West merger through a contractually binding and final arbitral process, the East pilots no longer had “true seniority equities” in the operation of an East-only seniority list that were independent from the Transition Agreement and the Nicolau Award; rather, the East pilots were exercising seniority by virtue of an unlawful course of conduct by USAPA on their behalf that has robbed West pilots of their rightful career expectations established in 2007 through the processes established through the Transition Agreement, ALPA Merger Policy, and the ISL contained in the Nicolau Award.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt][[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]sub-note 40: Not only does the Wye River meeting confirm that the East pilots understood the force of the Nicolau Award, it confirms that they were willing to live under it.  By the terms of their proposal, the list would be operative immediately upon execution of a JCBA but with restrictions for seven additional years.  (The East pilots’ Wye River proposal contemplated that a JCBA[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]would be ratified by June 2008, which was a reasonable assumption given the state of negotiations, including the Kirby proposal.  See West R. Ex. C (East Wye River Proposal) 22.)  Had the East’s Wye River Proposal been in effect, the Nicolau list would have been the list to be used in this proceeding without question and the carryover restrictions of the East pilots’ Wye River Proposal would have dropped within months of the effective date of the Award in this case…][/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]Thanks for the find Brother.  I'll be adding that to my collection of quotes.  I usually use stuff from the judges, USAPA, USAPA officers, etc., but this will do well.  You're right, that didn't take any time at all!!  Kudos![/SIZE]

 

[Walmartgreeter]

You had me at "no legal argument to be made"

The rest is begging.

How is the big celebration going in PHX? The Company is happy you got the Nic, but makes a legal argument you guys have to come back to work to cover the summer schedule.

 

[53Cactusboy]

You had me at "no legal argument to be made"

The rest is begging.

How is the big celebration going in PHX? The Company is happy you got the Nic, but makes a legal argument you guys have to come back to work to cover the summer schedule.

 
Begging by one of the most experienced labor attorneys in the industry.  It will be what it will be.  I'm standing by to see what the arbitration panel delivers.  That's the neat thing about reading documents & testimony in toto: you actually get the big picture.

 

[Phoenix]

Most people had the big picture way before documents piled up for ten years. Compromise is the only way to ensure the lawyers don't take the win. Or you can stick with Nic or nothing!

 

[EastUS1]

What's going on in PHX, seems they are having a major sick out.

 
That simply can't even possibly be! There can't, most certainly, be anything of an "illegal job action" going on out there. Why, just their "Integrity Matters" T-shirts alone would presumably prevent that sort of thing from ever happening. Additionally; they've an established history of eagerly licking management's shoe soles at every opportunity, even going so far as to directly ask of the CEO whether they should "turn in" supposedly "fellow pilots" for daring to taxi heavy aircraft around on "gasp!" BOTH engines running!  Substantiating reference for perpetually and mindlessly sucking on management's "shoe soles" every chance they get is offered below. Just prior to one minute into this pitiful cartoon we see the "hero" of it start a cheer leader's session in FAVOR of a company injunction in court against the whole pilot group, the almost unimaginably stupid twit's idiotic self included.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlzpMjT58WY

 

[53Cactusboy]

Most people had the big picture way before documents piled up for ten years. Compromise is the only way to ensure the lawyers don't take the win. Or you can stick with Nic or nothing!

Funny. What you've just described is a mutually agreed upon process called binding arbitration. Get it now?