2015 Pilot Discussion.

[luvthe9]

Wow. Seven rapid fire posts from the former USAPA President.
it just doesn't get any better than this...

What an idiot, try to keep up........he's not your former President, get a hobby or something......lt's so sad to see someone who can't let go.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

You said, my brother!  Amen!

NYC, you were one of the many senior pilots that supported our efforts, when you had zero personal gain to do so. No matter what happens, you had a say in changing how lists are merged at both your old Union, and in fact between all carriers now. You stood up and protected more junior pilots from injustice.

I commend you on your fine career, hope you can enjoy many great years going forward in the big city.

Greeter

 

[nycbusdriver]

dariencc, on 28 Jun 2016 - 09:01 AM, said:
Plenty of F/Os will be sorry to see busdriver go.  

NYC, you were one of the many senior pilots that supported our efforts, when you had zero personal gain to do so. No matter what happens, you had a say in changing how lists are merged at both your old Union, and in fact between all carriers now. You stood up and protected more junior pilots from injustice.

I commend you on your fine career, hope you can enjoy many great years going forward in the big city.

Greeter

 
Thanks for the kind words, my respected colleagues.  I wish everyone from the east pilot group a fair outcome in the SLI.  For me, there was no way I could not stand against the Nicolau abomination and what was so blatantly unfair to so many co-workers no matter what the personal financial cost to me.  There were many, many in my seniority range who felt the same way, but were not vocal here on this forum.  They deserve equal credit for standing tough.
 
And, aside from retiring my "nycbusdriver" moniker in a few weeks and leaving this forum forever, I will not be spending whatever years I have left in the big city.  I have a second career (since 2004) totally outside of aviation and it will take me far, far away from the big city.  Although I will miss all the great east crews and employees, I will not miss for a minute being an airline captain.  I have been flying professionally for more than 40 years and it is high time for me to bring this particular curtain down and move on.  And that threshold is 24 days away.

 

[Beancounter]

Bean counter- count reality of AWA. Bottom feeder for decades
Just the facts Beancounter. Do you count beans for Arthur Anderson?


IANTHE JEANNE DUGAN Staff Reporters of The Wall Street Journal
Updated June 7, 2002 12:01 a.m. ET
At "Andersen U.," the lush, 150-acre campus where Arthur Andersen LLP has trained tens of thousands of new recruits, there's a shrine to ethical accounting.

A display in the Andersen Heritage Center is devoted to yellowing press clippings of a long-ago campaign to clean up the accounting industry by Leonard Spacek, who led the firm from 1947 to 1963. In one, he accused Bethlehem Steel of overstating its profits in 1964 by more than 60%. In another, he bashed the Securities and Exchange Commission for failing to crack down on companies that cooked their books, saying that at best the regulatory agency has been "a brake on the rate of retrogression in the quality of accounting."

CALLED TO ACCOUNT

Have you reached a verdict? Who's winning the Andersen criminal trial? Vote to register your opinion. Remember, you can change your vote at any time as developments emerge.
Go to the Called to Account page for more coverage of the Andersen trial, as well as other issues stemming from Enron's collapse.
Did David Duncan fulfill government expectations? Join an online panel of experts to discuss his testimony in Andersen's trial.
Read key documents relating to the Andersen case, including the firm's document-retention policy and Nancy Temple's e-mail of Oct. 12. Learn more about Andersen's document-management prowess.
See a day-by-day recap of the trial.
Related article: How Andersen's Embrace of Consulting Changed the Culture of the Company (3/12/02)
Now, it's the quality of Andersen's accounting that has set off an ethical crisis. Since 1993, the firm has been embroiled in a series of major accounting scandals -- from Sunbeam Corp. to Waste Management Inc. to Enron Corp. Facing an obstruction-of-justice charge in a Houston federal court, Andersen itself is disintegrating and will likely be gone in a matter of months regardless of the verdict -- a humiliating end to a company that once stood as the world's largest professional-services firm and whose 85,000 employees last year generated $9.3 billion in revenue.

 
Moss Adams, not the biggest, but big on ethics B)  You have to remember too, that when I was hired at AWA it was post 9/11.  The choices were; AWA, JetBlue, and Southwest.  It was my first interview with a major and I was happy to get the call.  The guys and gals in my new hire class (including myself) probably had better overall qualifications than your USAir new hire class.
 

 
Apples versus oranges. USAPA's foundation was due to both accumulated disgust with alpa and in rational defense against the clinically insane concept of allowing new hires to usurp a full 17 years of worked for (and actually earned) seniority. It was enacted as a predictably temporary solution to an immediate obscenity. On the other hand?...PHX's 98%/"We're not worthy!...Would someone from management please at least autograph my swoosh-emblazoned knee pads?" vote in favor of the existing contract was, whether you yet realize it or not, nothing more than a vote to become forever mediocre (at best) in your esteemed "career expectations", and served to set nothing more of a future "bar" for management to do anything other than then laugh themselves to sleep over. The confluence of events present at the time of virtually total surrender by the "pilot" group was truly unique, and unlikely to ever again be duplicated. Management was able to easily envision easy multi-millions for themselves personally, enormous ego gratification via becoming "The Worlds' largest Airline", see a time where obscene profits, the likes of which had never before even been dreamed of in the airline industry arose.....and "you'se" utter fools let it all go for less than even the scraps any actually rational stray dogs would've actively fought for.
 
One of the "perks" of soon sinking into the retired old retired guy tar pit is the comfortingly attending thought of, as any even laughably supposed, collective work group? "Not my circus. Not my monkeys" anymore. 😉
 
As always; I wish you and your family the best Bean.

 
Well, I agree, USAPA was formed to avoid the Nic.  You had to have realized though that it meant never getting a new contract.  Management couldn't ignore a legal arbitration and they were more than happy to keep the east on the bankruptcy contract.  The only way to get a new contract was to accept the Nic.  It was the easts choice to avoid the Nic, I understand that from a pilot perspective, but from an accountants perspective it was an incredibly financially foolish thing to do.  I wish you and your family the best as well.
 

Way more to a contract than an hourly wage boy.......enjoy those 12 hour red eyes.

 
 
I totally agree!  I've argued that with captains numerous times, over years and years, and years..............
 
Bean

 

[luvthe9]

 

 
.  The only way to get a new contract was to accept the Nic.  It was the easts choice to avoid the Nic, .
 

 
 

 
Bean

Why did the west not accept the NIC at Wye River when we offered it?




FW: U-Turn: Taking Responsibility

There is one other possibility. We mentioned it in a previous U-Turn. Our union leaders believed that the USAPA vote would be close (razors edge, to quote one of them) and that it was worth holding out and rolling the dice, figuring that if ALPA survived, so would the NIC. Too bad ALPA didnt explain the importance of the 30% of East pilots who refused to participate in the Wilson Polling.

We now have a better picture what the East MEC had on the table: an 8 year fence, furloughs by longevity (LOS), MDA time not counting for longevity, Dave ODell having 400 pilots below him, and the Nic surviving as THE LIST. Yes, the East offered the NIC. They just wanted to protect their retirement attrition, which stalled by the change in Age-60. Looking back, that offer must look like a home run to any West pilot right now, but last February the EAST MEC and ALPA couldnt get to first base with it.

Our former MEC and our union leadership played a very high stakes game of poker by not dealing at Wye River. Freund was right, we were risking everything..and right now, it looks like we lost. They need to take responsibility for that.

U-Turn




The U-Turn Wye River: ALPA's Last Stand Back to Wye River. Did West Merger Attorney and West MEC advisor Jeff Freund really walk out of talks because the MEC refused to give on the NIC or did West MC Chairman Ken Stravers chase him out?

 

[Pi brat]

NYCbusdriver,
 
Thanks for your support all these years and congrats on a great career. Best to you in retirement!

 

[Beancounter]

Why did the west not accept the NIC at Wye River when we offered it?




FW: U-Turn: Taking Responsibility

There is one other possibility. We mentioned it in a previous U-Turn. Our union leaders believed that the USAPA vote would be close (razors edge, to quote one of them) and that it was worth holding out and rolling the dice, figuring that if ALPA survived, so would the NIC. Too bad ALPA didnt explain the importance of the 30% of East pilots who refused to participate in the Wilson Polling.

We now have a better picture what the East MEC had on the table: an 8 year fence, furloughs by longevity (LOS), MDA time not counting for longevity, Dave ODell having 400 pilots below him, and the Nic surviving as THE LIST. Yes, the East offered the NIC. They just wanted to protect their retirement attrition, which stalled by the change in Age-60. Looking back, that offer must look like a home run to any West pilot right now, but last February the EAST MEC and ALPA couldnt get to first base with it.

Our former MEC and our union leadership played a very high stakes game of poker by not dealing at Wye River. Freund was right, we were risking everything..and right now, it looks like we lost. They need to take responsibility for that.

U-Turn




The U-Turn Wye River: ALPA's Last Stand Back to Wye River. Did West Merger Attorney and West MEC advisor Jeff Freund really walk out of talks because the MEC refused to give on the NIC or did West MC Chairman Ken Stravers chase him out?

 
 
I have a feeling your guys lied to you about what was offered at Wye river just like they lied to you about DOH.  We knew it wasn't going to be DOH, because the arbitrators said so in advance of the award when they asked your guys to come up with something different.  You wouldn't have known that though would you since you were kept in the dark.  What was offered was furloughing based on DOH.  ummmmmmm, no thanks.  No then and no now.
 
Bean

 

[luvthe9]

I have a feeling your guys lied to you about what was offered at Wye river just like they lied to you about DOH.  We knew it wasn't going to be DOH, because the arbitrators said so in advance of the award when they asked your guys to come up with something different.  You wouldn't have known that though would you since you were kept in the dark.  What was offered was furloughing based on DOH.  ummmmmmm, no thanks.  No then and no now.
 
Bean

Again, this was the report from YOUR guys, not ours.......geez.



Talk about being lied to ................Ferguson and and Koontz told you the lie of the century and you fell for it ......now you have been in the fishbowl for how many years while growth has been happening everywhere but PHX, come on Bean you know better.





"According to our reports, on Day One of Wye River, Jeff Freund warned the West MEC that if USAPA won, the West risked losing everything. He urged reaching an agreement. He was gone on Day Two. We wont address his motivation for leaving"


"We did it to ourselves, guys."

Dave Blomgren, for the U-Turn



Again none of this will effect me, but your guys lied to you and it has really screwed your pilot group.......but at least the end is near.

 

[53Cactusboy]

More lies.  U-Turd was a blog put out by someone that was NOT involved in the process in ANY fashion.  His opinion(s) are every bit as valid as yours (as in - NOT).  Wow...30 year old news stories, 25 year old videos, 10 year old senseless blogs....I'm sure you have a case (not).  Bean was right.  You spew nothing but untruth here.  I hope you get everything you deserve.

 

[luvthe9]

More lies.  U-Turd was a blog put out by someone that was NOT involved in the process in ANY fashion.  His opinion(s) are every bit as valid as yours (as in - NOT).  Wow...30 year old news stories, 25 year old videos, 10 year old senseless blogs....I'm sure you have a case (not).  Bean was right.  You spew nothing but untruth here.  I hope you get everything you deserve.

You go on keep pretending it did not happen........click your heels "Dorothy"........ It is going to be fine.



I know it's hard to face the truth what you have done to your pilot group.



Say what you want you can't change the facts..........you might be out of the fishbowl in a year or so, now that's good news, right flounder.

 

[Black Swan]

More lies.  U-Turd was a blog put out by someone that was NOT involved in the process in ANY fashion.  His opinion(s) are every bit as valid as yours (as in - NOT).  Wow...30 year old news stories, 25 year old videos, 10 year old senseless blogs....I'm sure you have a case (not).  Bean was right.  You spew nothing but untruth here.  I hope you get everything you deserve.

The U Turns are extremely prophetic. The part about compromise was absolutely true. You were warned the East pilots would dump ALPA, and had the legal votes to do it. You gambled and lost. Totally legal, and Freund warned you.

 

[Phoenix]

This U Turns are extremely prophetic. The part about compromise was absolutely true. You were warned the East pilots would dump ALPA, and had the legal votes to do it. You gambled and lost. Totally legal, and Freund warned you.

And after they ignored his warning and lost, he gladly waltzed back on to the seen to help them lose again (it is their money, and who is Freund to warn them twice 😀 )

The client pays the bills. The client is in charge.

 

[end_of_alpa]

And the beat goes on.......

 

[Black Swan]

More lies.  U-Turd was a blog put out by someone that was NOT involved in the process in ANY fashion.  His opinion(s) are every bit as valid as yours (as in - NOT).  Wow...30 year old news stories, 25 year old videos, 10 year old senseless blogs....I'm sure you have a case (not).  Bean was right.  You spew nothing but untruth here.  I hope you get everything you deserve.

The 10 year old blogs portended the FishBowl era. It started for you 10 years ago. Leonidas and the 2004 hires completely played into the Parker Script. Herb Holland and Blomgren saw it coming.

 

[Claxon]

Doug Parker Letter 08/16/2007


Dear US Airways Pilot:

I should clarify that a joint contract does not necessarily mean immediate seniority integration. I have spoken with enough of our East pilots to know that such a proposal would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get ratified.



UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
May 12, 2009 - Jury Trial - Day 10
2058


You will recall the testimony of plaintiff Mark Burman. He's the man who verified the complaint in this action for the plaintiffs who agreed that the union election between ALPA and USAPA was basically a referendum vote rejecting the Nicolau Award.



May 12, 2009 - Jury Trial - Day 10
2009


You had plaintiff witness Ken Stravers, former chairman of the West Merger Committee, agree that the term log-jam was appropriate. Plaintiff Mark Burman recognized that there was an impasse. Plaintiffs' witness Russell Payne, former member of the ALPA -- the West ALPA MEC merger committee, agreed that the Wye River meetings were to resolve the impasse that existed and that they didn't succeed. Named plaintiff Steve Wargocki confirmed he had described the impasse that had arisen between the two sides as a quagmire.