2015 Pilot Discussion.

[cactusboy53]

Pretty sad you were a PHX rep and spent millions for nothing. Too bad you never went to this Town Hall. Doug had the answer all along. Unfortunately for you, Mitch Vaselino, Ferguson, Koontz and the other 2004 hires hijacked the process. Read carefully the following:

November 11, 2008 (Q&A in Phoenix with Doug Parker)

Parker: The binding arbitration you’re talking about I think – I’m pretty sure what you are talking about – that was an ALPA process that resulted in binding arbitration. That wasn’t a company process. That’s ALPA to ALPA seniority integration that says if you can’t get it resolved we go to binding arbitration is ALPA policy not company policy. If the company’s in binding arbitration, yea we believe in binding arbitration.

 
So......(if this is a verbatim quote), allow me to recap:

• Parker states that our seniority could not be resolved via negotiations.  TRUE
• Parker states that the process then proceeded to BINDING ARBITRATION.  TRUE
• Parker states that they (the company) were not a party to that BINDING ARBITRATION.  TRUE
• Parker states that the BINDING ARBITRATION was a function of our collective bargaining agent - ALPA.  TRUE.  In fact it is Section 45 of the ALPA Constitution & Bylaws, and is only a process to guide the parties through a merger arbitration.  The parties actually PICK the arbitration panel (you know like when YOU PICKED esteemed ARBITRATOR GEORGE NICOLAU).
• Parker believes in BINDING ARBITRATION if the company is involved in BINDING ARBITRATION.  TRUE

Here's what the National Mediation Board says about continuity of contract(s):
 
The National Mediation Board on the subject of contract continuity:
 

"When there is an agreement in effect between a carrier and its employees signed by one set of representatives and employees choose new representatives who are certified by the Board, the Board has taken the position that a change in representation DOES NOT ALTER OR CANCEL ANY EXISTING AGREEMENT made on behalf of the employees by the previous representatives.  The only effect of a certification by the Board is that the employees have chosen other agents to represent them in dealing with the management under the existing agreement”

 
So, if ALL of Parker's statements are TRUE, and he believes the participants in BINDING ARBITRATION are BOUND by that agreement.....then LOGICALLY he must believe that USAPA was also BOUND by the EXISTING AGREEMENT (read...CONTRACT, Letters of Agreement, Arbitrations, Side Letters, et al).
 
CLEARY.......sorry CLEAR enough for you Claxy, or do you need a picture drawn?

 

[cactusboy53]

“In the US Airways – America West case, it went to binding arbitration but there was a requirement as part of that that the two unions negotiate a joint contract with the company, which wasn’t done yet.

And because it wasn’t done yet, the side that didn’t like it could prevent a joint contract from getting done. And because of that, the seniority integration never happened."

Scott Kirby

 
Allow me to recap (if this is an actual quote):

• Kirby, and USAF Academy graduate in COMPUTER SCIENCE & Operations Science, opined on our seniority battle.  TRUE
• Then President (of US Airways) Scott Kirby states that the JCBA was the final piece of the process to enact the seniority list.  TRUE
• Kirby understates (IMHO) that the US Air pilots "didn't like it" (the Nicolau List), and thus prevented "a joint contract from getting done".  TRUE
• Kirby, the COMPUTER SCIENCE graduate, then states that because the US Air pilots balked at completing the JCBA, the "seniority integration never happened".

Here's what Senior Vice President & General Counsel said about USAPA in testimony:
 
“Actually, it is USAPA that is needlessly delaying the resolution of the seniority dispute and jeopardizing the enforceability of the agreement the parties are able to reach. …….The arbitrator’s decision was to be final and binding on both pilot groups and was to be accepted by the Company so long as certain conditions were met.  The Nicolau Award has resulted in four years of litigation including a trial in federal court and jury verdict fining USAPA’s proposal for a non-Nicolau list to constitute an unlawful breach of the union’s duty of fair representation….”
 
Paul D. Jones; Vice President – Legal Affairs and Chief Compliance Officer

Exhibit 1 of  Declaration of Counsel; Case 13-15000, 02/20/2013
 
I'm no lawyer, but in matters of law...specifically labor law I would be inclined to agree with Mr. Jones.

 

[EastUS1]

 
Allow me to recap....
 

 
Perhaps "a piece of your" (my) "soul" is in dire jeopardy for even observing this, but recap to "you'se" little heart's content. Continually posting pages of meaningless gibberish makes no difference now, since the whole mess is purely in the hands of an arbitration panel. None of us can currently have even the slightest reasonable idea of what they'll come up with. Do your posts somehow comfort you against that fact in any way? Is it within your imaginings that yet a few more tons of absurdly posted (and wholly ridiculous) self "righteousness" might magically make even the slightest difference?
 
West fantasies of "Final and Binding!"...."It's OVER!...Get used to it!"..and all your "noble" attempts to ensure that "The Nic will be crammed down your throats!" completely failed, and we'll all simply have to wait and see what the product of contemporary arbitration will be.
 
I'll let your following simply speak for the full value it's actually worth: "I'm no lawyer, but in matters of law...."

 

[cactusboy53]

 
Perhaps "a piece of your" (my) "soul" is in dire jeopardy for even observing this, but recap to "you'se" little heart's content. Continually posting pages of meaningless gibberish makes no difference now, since the whole mess is purely in the hands of an arbitration panel. None of us can currently have even the slightest reasonable idea of what they'll come up with. Do your posts somehow comfort you against that fact in any way? Is it within your imaginings that yet a few more tons of absurdly posted (and wholly ridiculous) self "righteousness" might magically make even the slightest difference?
 
West fantasies of "Final and Binding!"...."It's OVER!...Get used to it!"..and your attempts to ensure that "The Nic will be crammed down your throats!" failed, and we'll all simply have to wait and see what the product of contemporary arbitration will be.
 
I'll let your following simply speak for the full value it's actually worth: I'm no lawyer, but in matters of law....

 
Look Michael, you're going to have to do better than that to battle with words.  You ACTUALLY need to quote learned counsel, district court judges, and industry EXPERTS.  If you can't come up with intelligent and informed responses, then you will be sent to my "corn field".
 
The Nicolau List is NOT a "fantasy".  It is the PRODUCT of a mutually agreed upon process.  Changing your CBA's name to USAPA or Captain Morgan's Mighty Rum Runners, DOES NOT excuse you from your commitment.  Get it?  Cleary....sorry CLEAR?  Need to buy a vowel?  Need more clues?
 
Our efforts to hold your accountable have worked just fine.  The Nicolau list is the ONLY combined seniority list that survived this process.  You could have had a contract with the Nicolau list right up to the merger with American Airlines.  While USAPA picked up their toys and ran away (after the rightful ruling of the 9th), the West Pilots Seniority Committee and the AAPSIC both argued that the Nicolau Seniority List is the ONLY way to start the SLI process between LUS and LAA. 
 
Everyone gets it (except you and the USAPA faithful).
 
Don't worry, I'm pretty sure the BOA gets it too.

 

[EastUS1]

 
.... you're going to have to do better than that to battle with words.  You ACTUALLY need to quote learned counsel,...

 
For what even possible purpose should anyone care at this point for all "you'se" nonsense? I don't give a fig about "learned counsel" when it flies in the face of actual reality. I'd thought I'd covered the whole thing nicely with: "The whole mess is purely in the hands of an arbitration panel. None of us can currently have even the slightest reasonable idea of what they'll come up with...and we'll all simply have to wait and see what the product of contemporary arbitration will be." Which part of that obvious truth can even be at all contested?... But heck, if it keeps "you'se" simple "spartan" sorts amused; feel perfectly free to continue as you have...and thanks, as always, for the dependable laughs.

 

[EastUS1]

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure the BOA gets it too.

 
P.S. Just "pretty sure"? How sad is that? Oh well, "you'se" agreeable audience seems much diminished of late. For years we read posted fantasies of "the rest of the world"/"the whole industry" being both on your side and always in fullest accord. Oh wait! I see now that "Everyone gets it", so all's apparently well.  Again; thanks for all the laughs over the years. 

 

[cactusboy53]

 
P.S. Just "pretty sure"? How sad is that? Oh well, "you'se" agreeable audience seems much diminished of late. For years we read posted fantasies of "the rest of the world"/"the whole industry" being both on your side and always in fullest accord. Oh wait! I see now that "Everyone gets it", so all's apparently well.  Again; thanks for all the laughs over the years. 

 
I'm so pleased that you think all of your chicanery is so funny.  Keep that sense of humor, Gramps.  I think you're gonna need it.
 
 
chi·can·er·y
SHiˈkānərē,CHi-/
noun
noun: chicanery
the use of trickery to achieve a political, financial, or legal purpose.
"an underhanded person who schemes corruption and political chicanery behind closed doors"

synonyms:

trickery, deception, deceit, deceitfulness, duplicity, dishonesty, deviousness, unscrupulousness, underhandedness, subterfuge, fraud, fraudulence, swindling, cheating, duping, hoodwinking; More

 

[EastUS1]

 Keep that sense of humor, Gramps.  I think you're gonna need it.
 

 
Most kind of "you'se" son. I plan on doing so, especially since it's served me well in far more serious circumstances than merely banal conversation with uppity "spartan" punks. I'm curious here though; just exactly how do you imagine I'll have some "need" for it by way of any of this foolishness?...Well, notwithstanding your earlier-posted fantasies of my very "soul" being in danger through opposing the nic, of course?
 
Um...and the flying wager's always open of course, should "you'se" (as naturally a true "gentleman" ) ever personally wish to instruct me on any/all matters of Honor....?
 
I'd repeat the thanks for the laughs thing, but it's becoming tediously repetitive at this point.

 

[EastUS1]

I'm so pleased that you think all of your chicanery is so funny.  .....
 
chi·can·er·y

 
 

 
....I use LARGE INDELIBLE INK PENS to color...... I especially like RED & GREEN.

 
Most impressive indeed. For "you'se" safety's sake; I hope they have no sharp edges or points, much like your postings.

 

[Phoenix]

Most impressive indeed.

Prepare to be even more impressed when the SLI publication is imminent.... The west will declare they have won before anyone gets a chance to read it.

There is no doubt they will once again engage in premature elation, as always. The only question is whether or not they will once again still be sniffing A330s from afar, waiting their turn, or cutting in line.

 

[EastUS1]

Prepare to be even more impressed when the SLI publication is imminent.... The west will declare they have won before anyone gets a chance to read it.

There is no doubt they will once again engage in premature elation, as always. The only question is whether or not they will once again still be sniffing A330s from afar, waiting their turn, or cutting in line.

 
Pretty much. What's most amusing to see here is these angry, hapless "kids" still evidencing some strange fantasies that advancing their emotions will at all make any difference at this point...as if doing so ever did. Oh well, perhaps we should leave them alone with their coloring books: "....I use LARGE INDELIBLE INK PENS to color...... I especially like RED & GREEN." What harm is there in that?

 

[Claxon]

So......(if this is a verbatim quote), allow me to recap:

• Parker states that our seniority could not be resolved via negotiations.  TRUE
• Parker states that the process then proceeded to BINDING ARBITRATION.  TRUE
• Parker states that they (the company) were not a party to that BINDING ARBITRATION.  TRUE
• Parker states that the BINDING ARBITRATION was a function of our collective bargaining agent - ALPA.  TRUE.  In fact it is Section 45 of the ALPA Constitution & Bylaws, and is only a process to guide the parties through a merger arbitration.  The parties actually PICK the arbitration panel (you know like when YOU PICKED esteemed ARBITRATOR GEORGE NICOLAU).
• Parker believes in BINDING ARBITRATION if the company is involved in BINDING ARBITRATION.  TRUE

Here's what the National Mediation Board says about continuity of contract(s):
 
The National Mediation Board on the subject of contract continuity:
 

"When there is an agreement in effect between a carrier and its employees signed by one set of representatives and employees choose new representatives who are certified by the Board, the Board has taken the position that a change in representation DOES NOT ALTER OR CANCEL ANY EXISTING AGREEMENT made on behalf of the employees by the previous representatives.  The only effect of a certification by the Board is that the employees have chosen other agents to represent them in dealing with the management under the existing agreement”

 
So, if ALL of Parker's statements are TRUE, and he believes the participants in BINDING ARBITRATION are BOUND by that agreement.....then LOGICALLY he must believe that USAPA was also BOUND by the EXISTING AGREEMENT (read...CONTRACT, Letters of Agreement, Arbitrations, Side Letters, et al).
 
CLEARY.......sorry CLEAR enough for you Claxy, or do you need a picture drawn?

So, MAKE IT HAPPEN! All the PHX rep jack talk and it just cannot work out the way you say it had to go. 9 years later, it still is not used. So, who do you think is REALLY correct?

 

[Claxon]

http://youtu.be/YUuy3o0Qb7E

Perhaps west pilot Tony Anger can reach into the future and explain what the heck happened to the former PHX rep postulations concerning the perplexing absence of the Nicolau Award in 2016

 

[cactusboy53]

So, MAKE IT HAPPEN! All the PHX rep jack talk and it just cannot work out the way you say it had to go. 9 years later, it still is not used. So, who do you think is REALLY correct?

You must have me confused with the esteemed arbitrator Eischen & the BOA. They will decide what the new combined American Airlines will be, and you will have to eat it.

Cleary..... sorry, CLEAR?

 

[cactusboy53]

Oh no! More desperate posts with OLD (but FUNNY!!) videos! What ever will we do?!?!?