2015 Pilot Discussion.

[Claxon]

"After carefully considering the arguments of the parties, the Board finds
that the proper issue before it, therefore, is as follows: “Whether the APA has the
discretion to designate a West Pilots Merger Committee to participate in the
seniority Integration List (SLI) process and, if so, whether it should do so?”
 
 
"The West Pilots deny that the issue before the Board is whether or not West Pilots have an independent legal right to participate in the SLI proceedings.
Any attempt to reframe the issue in this manner should be dismissed by the
Board, the West Pilots insist. Whether the West Pilots have a separate and
independent legal right to engage in SLI negotiations and arbitration is irrelevant,
as APA has already decided as a matter of its discretion to appoint a West
Merger Committee."
 
According to the West Pilots, USAPA is merely attempting to confuse the
issue before the Board by recrafting the issue to be decided. The only issue to
be resolved, the West Pilots maintain, is whether APA has properly exercised its
discretion to appoint a West Merger Committee to ensure that the interests of
West Pilots are fully represented in the SLI process."

 

[EastCheats]

"After carefully considering the arguments of the parties, the Board finds
that the proper issue before it, therefore, is as follows: Whether the APA has the
discretion to designate a West Pilots Merger Committee to participate in the
seniority Integration List (SLI) process and, if so, whether it should do so?
 
 
"The West Pilots deny that the issue before the Board is whether or not West Pilots have an independent legal right to participate in the SLI proceedings.
Any attempt to reframe the issue in this manner should be dismissed by the
Board, the West Pilots insist. Whether the West Pilots have a separate and
independent legal right to engage in SLI negotiations and arbitration is irrelevant,
as APA has already decided as a matter of its discretion to appoint a West
Merger Committee."
 
According to the West Pilots, USAPA is merely attempting to confuse the
issue before the Board by recrafting the issue to be decided. The only issue to
be resolved, the West Pilots maintain, is whether APA has properly exercised its
discretion to appoint a West Merger Committee to ensure that the interests of
West Pilots are fully represented in the SLI process."

The West got a seat....chill out.

Don't you have a gym member to sell?

View attachment 10569

 

[Claxon]

The West got a seat....chill out.
 

AirTran had a seat with Southwest.  TWA had a seat with American.  You had a seat at US Airways.  

 

[EastUS1]

 
"Whether the West Pilots have a separate and independent legal right to engage in SLI negotiations and arbitration is irrelevant,..."

 
If even just for comic relief; I'm personally fine with giving those fully demonstrated fools their seat as is. Let them storm into the sli waving their Fantasyland list shouting "this is sparta" and be done with it. I strongly suspect they'll afterwards wish they hadn't, but the above, as phrased, is certainly interesting to consider. Since when are legal rights or the lack thereof "irrelevant"? I'd guess that the can of worms has barely been opened there.  "...APA has already decided as a matter of its discretion" wouldn't seem of it's self anything that determines larger legality issues.

 

[EastUS1]

"In the event the Company determines..."

 
That alone should be a huge Red Flag to anyone with so much as opposable thumbs and a pulse. If there's ever any way that the company can "determine" to steal from the employees, well, based on all observed history, one can rest assured that they will.

 

[EastUS1]

4% means get a clue. You're too nutty even for the East.

 
That last begs the obvious and honest question. Is there indeed anyone or anything that's ever been shown, seen, heard, or even hinted at, that's in any way, shape or form "too nutty" for the west?
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxaQFQC0MAY
 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlzpMjT58WY

 

[EastUS1]

 
I agree.  Let it go.  But I wish the APA, which now has the authority to appoint a committee to protect west interest, 
open an election by west members to present their choices for represenation on their MC.  
 
None of the whack-a-doodle AOL leadership was elected by the west members, so they have no claim to automatically staff their merger committee.
 
Granted, they will probably elect the same nut jobs...but at least the APA would have given them a choice in the matter.

 
It's interesting that even that very reasonable post received minus votes. What sort of utter fools wouldn't want to at least be able to decide for themselves exactly who they wished to have represent their interests? It seems highly unlikely to me, given their absurdly mindless, lock-step vote on the MOU that there would be any serious contest against their simply self appointed panel, but what if even a single west pilot feels otherwise? Why couldn't he/she properly sue?

 

[EastUS1]

Then you better talk to USAPA because the law says they (the West) don't.  And you just brought up the problematic point of whom exactly "elected" the West AOL leadership or their merger committee.  USAPA has rights, too.

 
Valid points all.

 

[CactusPilot1]

AirTran had a seat with Southwest.  TWA had a seat with American.  You had a seat at US Airways.

It's the East's fault that you started the divide. The fact that USAPA had a chance and blew it with the West pilots. You should have been less emotional and thought ahead to a possible next merger. We are going into this as West pilots and East pilots and the blame lies at USAPA's feet. You reap what you sow.

You don't have the numbers to throw out the APA. The APA has the right to oversee the process as the bargaining agent. The panel ruled, it's over. Are you going to blame Nicolau again? It appears you have a problem with arbitration as a process. The West gets a seat and the APA will defend their rights from the expected frivolous lawsuits from decertified nut jobs.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Then you better talk to USAPA because the law says they (the West) don't.  And you just brought up the problematic point of whom exactly "elected" the West AOL leadership or their merger committee.  USAPA has rights, too.

Decertified, invalid, irrelavant.

AWE

 

[EastUS1]

It's the East's fault that you started the divide. The fact that USAPA had a chance and blew it with the West pilots. You should have been less emotional and thought ahead to a possible next merger. We are going into this as West pilots and East pilots and the blame lies at USAPA's feet. You reap what you sow.
 
.....The West gets a seat and the APA will defend their rights from the expected frivolous lawsuits from decertified nut jobs.

 
If that's even laughably meant as a response to any questions of legality, then son, I'd gently suggest that "You should have been less emotional and thought" instead. It now sounds to me as if a challenge will be filed, and neither my notions nor your adolescent angst would play any part in that. The APA's interests are not yours, as you'll certainly discover as the sli is determined. They reasonably wish to minimize their liability and have thus given the west a seat. If you can even fantasize that having said seat litigated against would trouble them in the slightest, then one must ask of you why you would imagine that to be so?
 
"APA will defend their rights" Indeed. They will do what's best to cover themselves as they have so far. If you foolishly imagine they currently lose sleep at night over your group's interests, well, what can really be said there?...At least with any semblance of a straight face anyway?
 
Personally; I'd prefer having your fine "army", as currently constituted, sally forth into noble "battle" as is.

 

[CactusPilot1]

If that's even laughably meant as a response to any questions of legality, then son, I'd gently suggest that "You should have been less emotional and thought" instead.

Hey Ace,

You defend the theft of other people's careers through evasion and intimidation. There is no reasoning with criminally minded psychopaths. The Usapian label fits you well and you are in good company.

How did a person of your "fine" character get an ATP?

E. An applicant must be of good moral character. The inspector shall ask an applicant if the applicant has been convicted of a felony. If the applicants answer is affirmative, the inspector should make further inquiry about the nature and disposition of the conviction. If an inspector has reason to believe an applicant does not qualify for an ATP because of questionable moral character, the inspector shall not issue a knowledge test authorization. Instead, the inspector shall refer the matter to the immediate supervisor for resolution. The supervisor may need to consult with regional counsel for a determination concerning whether the applicant meets the moral character eligibility requirement.

 

[EastUS1]

Hey Ace,

You defend the theft of other people's careers through evasion and intimidation. There is no reasoning with criminally minded psychopaths. The Usapian label fits you well and you are in good company.

How did a person of your "fine" character get an ATP?

E. An applicant must be of good moral character. The inspector shall ask an applicant if the applicant has been convicted of a felony. If the applicants answer is affirmative, the inspector should make further inquiry about the nature and disposition of the conviction. If an inspector has reason to believe an applicant does not qualify for an ATP because of questionable moral character, the inspector shall not issue a knowledge test authorization. Instead, the inspector shall refer the matter to the immediate supervisor for resolution. The supervisor may need to consult with regional counsel for a determination concerning whether the applicant meets the moral character eligibility requirement.

 
I can only suppose that the government was kind enough to overlook the same manifest character flaws they did when foolishly allowing my advancement to field grade rank in the USAF, and earlier trusting me with even the possible employment of nuclear weapons, but what do I know? After all "There is no reasoning with criminally minded psychopaths."  Now that you raise such issues though: "How did a person of your "fine" character" manage to become a "spartan"?
 
Thanks for validating my earlier question: Is there indeed anyone or anything that's ever been shown, seen, heard, or even hinted at, that's in any way, shape or form "too nutty" for the west?
 
P.S. Per your nonsense of "You defend the theft of other people's careers"? I reasonably object to pathetic little punks like yourself (in general), or anyone for that matter, usurping the worked for and fully earned years of others' seniority by even a day, much less the 17 years you would so eagerly like to magically and instantly take away from people I've flown with for many years.

 

[WNMECH]

I agree.  Let it go.  But I wish the APA, which now has the authority to appoint a committee to protect west interest, 
open an election by west members to present their choices for represenation on their MC.  
 
None of the whack-a-doodle AOL leadership was elected by the west members, so they have no claim to automatically staff their merger committee.
 
Granted, they will probably elect the same nut jobs...but at least the APA would have given them a choice in the matter.

So now you want to let the West pilots decide who will represent their SLI interests?

That's rich.

 

[luvthe9]

Fly this for the same rate as the 319.............          http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-22/airbus-studies-extra-tank-on-a321-to-replace-757-across-atlantic.html