EastCheats
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- Mar 12, 2012
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The grow-up thing again. Yawn....EastUS1 said:
You really need some new material
2015 Pilot Discussion.
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You really need some new material
- Feb 10, 2011
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That was a case where you had no case. Rather than caving to pressure and admitting to questionable charges, they did the right thing.nycbusdriver said:
Now you have Usapians, the very ones who most likely supported the witch hunt find themselves facing a lawsuit of their own. Call it poetic justice or Karma. This time around we have Union funds involved and the digging has begun. Call it a grave for you and a gold mine for us.
Have you considered the possibility that someone in your group of 13 may have come forward? I think it's possible. I can't wait until the finger-pointing starts.
Sleep tight.
nycbusdriver
Veteran
CactusPilot1 said:
I always do. But thanks for the thought.
- Feb 10, 2011
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We'll work on methods to improve and keep you up at night.nycbusdriver said:
Call it Southern hospitality.
EastCheats said:The grow-up thing again. Yawn....
You really need some new material
Not really. "The grow up thing" is always at least worth suggesting, regardless of how futile it is to do so in cases like yours, Cactuspilot, et al. You may now resume admiring your "heroic" Cactus 18 "bling" and proudly proclaiming your vast reservoir of thus-demonstrated "courage" to the world, and Cactuspilot's doubtless overdue for another greatness-by-childish-association posting of perhaps another Battle Flag from the actual Army of the Republic of Texas's history. Sigh...Have fun kids.
- Feb 10, 2011
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That's some funny stuff. Let's invite them to the knight's table.EastCheats said:Let's fill your no Nic pint.
image.jpg
Have a seat with my fellow Knights.http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7aDj/redds-apple-ale-knights
Enjoy
Cheers!
http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7aDj/redds-apple-ale-knights
EastCheats said:Wye me a river
November 11, 2008 (Q&A in Phoenix with Doug Parker)
Pilot: . . . . My question though is I was at the hearing for the furloughed guys and one of the possibilities they were discussing is moving 190s to the west and can’t do that. You know why.
Parker: Why
Pilot: Binding arbitration. So the company believes in binding arbitration. We have a binding arbitration for seniority. Does the company believe in binding arbitration or not?
Parker: The binding arbitration you’re talking about I think – I’m pretty sure what you are talking about – that was an ALPA process that resulted in binding arbitration. That wasn’t a company process. That’s ALPA to ALPA seniority integration that says if you can’t get it resolved we go to binding arbitration is ALPA policy not company policy. If the company’s in binding arbitration, yea we believe in binding arbitration.
Wye River: ALPA’s Last StandEastCheats said:Wye me a river
The hunkering down at Wye River this past February was ALPA’s last ditch effort to reach a “consensual” agreement and hopefully save the Mother Ship in the process. Wye River failed, and here’s our take on why.
We all know what happened. Both sides claimed to be right, and that the other side was wrong. They couldn’t find any common ground. This was despite all of ALPA’s “resources” and Garland Jones’ “Elephants in the Room” speech. Not much more to say.
We believe Wye River was doomed by an ALPA miscalculation, not just the resolve of the West to hold the line on the NIC. ALPA shot itself in the foot. We at U-Turn can’t hold the West MEC entirely responsible for what we believe was bad information that led to their decision. We believe ALPA’s misinterpretation of the Wilson Polling was their fatal mistake. ALPA thought the vote was going to be a near tie. The Wilson Poll presented both sides with the same polling information (Source: 3 West pilots and 2 East pilots who were actually there).
The West MEC approval rating was over 70%, with 90% firmly committed to vote for ALPA, 9% voting “other” and only 1% voting for USAPA.
The East MEC approval rating was >20%, with 40% firmly committed to vote for USAPA and 11% for ALPA. 20% were undecided. Add the two sides proportionally and you get close to a tie.
But East responses only added up to 71%, because 29% refused to take the poll. That 29% is the key to an obvious ALPA mistake. ALPA never understood their voting power. That polling was before Wye River and a month before ALPA’s February 29th “Friday Night Massacre” fired the elected PHL Reps and put them into trusteeship.
ALPA had plenty of clues that they were in deep trouble last fall. USAPA got 3,000 signatures in two months. The West propaganda machine pooh-poohed the card campaign, saying it would fall flat on its face. It didn’t.
Then ALPA misread an accidental event which occurred while Wye River was being planned, USAPA’s chopped up ballots. While the West MEC ridiculed the error with a cartoon in their February 5th MEC Update (“If you can’t trust USAPA with a pair of scissors, how can we trust them with our careers?”), USAPA put out a notice through their communications network to resubmit cards. They got 3,100 returns in ten days. If ALPA even noticed, they certainly didn’t react.
Back to Wye River. Did West Merger Attorney and West MEC advisor Jeff Freund really walk out of talks because the MEC refused to give on the NIC or did West MC Chairman Ken Stravers chase him out? Did the West MEC shut their MC out? Did the West LCC members ever get down to nitty-gritty negotiations, which included throwing the West FOs under the bus? Did the East MEC ever come off DOH? And were there really five elephants in the meeting room? Or were there six?
EastCheats
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Referenced above: More Whine RiverClaxon said:
Was that filed in a cabinet along with a petrified stool sample?
luvthe9
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.EastCheats said:Referenced above: More Whine River
Was that filed in a cabinet along with a petrified stool sample?
And boy do you scabs whine about it a lot, I'm surprised Marty has not told you the truth, guess he's still milking you kids.
Wye River did you boys in.
"Yes, the East offered the NIC. They just wanted to protect their retirement attrition, which stalled by the change in Age-60. Looking back, that offer must look like a home run to any West pilot right now,"
Stuck in PHX for another year and half at least.
Jeffrey Freund - Notice of Removal July 24, 2007
Thus, the “arbitration award” Plaintiffs purportedly seek to “vacate” is in actuality the proposed pilot seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy that ALPA will adopt as its bargaining position to be presented to the Company, but which (like a union bargaining position in any matter) the Company is not required to accept. Application, Ex.1 at 2,9 (ALPA will present to the company the merged seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy arbitration procedures, and “ALPA will use all reasonable means at its disposal to compel the company to accept and implement the merged seniority list”). Plaintiffs seek review of this ALPA bargaining position developed through ALPA Merger Policy, and, while couching it in the terms of “vacating” and “arbitration,” the relief they actually seek is a review of the product of ALPA’s Merger Policy, and, ultimately, alteration of ALPA’s bargaining proposal to the company…Plaintiff’s Application to “vacate” an “arbitration award” that does not establish any enforceable seniority rights in a collective bargaining agreement with the Company, but which merely sets out ALPA’s bargaining position to be presented to the company, is not a state law claim at all but rather an artfully pled Federal claim for breech of Duty of Fair Representation.
Judge Emmet Sullivan - Memorandum Opinion November 30, 2007
“Ultimately, the ALPA Merger Policy generates a proposed seniority list, which ALPA promises to present to the merged airlines in an effort to persuade the merged airlines to adopt the list.” See Defs. Opp’n 3-4.
Project Zanzibar
At the May 9 session of the Joint Negotiating Committee, Scott Kirby, President of the Company, revealed to the assembled representatives of both pilot groups and ALPA National that he had headed a project code-named “Project Zanzibar” for AW in 2005 and that the legal papers for a Chapter 11 filing had been prepared and a plan developed for AW’s bankruptcy in the event that the merger failed to come to fruition. Project Zanzibar was AW’s only Plan B. It is now beyond dispute that the junior AW pilot, Dave Odell, and 300-400 other AW F/Os hired in 2002-05 would have been furloughed absent the US merger, as AW went into Chapter 11, perhaps never to emerge. In light of this new disclosure from the carrier’s President, there is clearly no support for the explicit premise of the Nicolau Award that these AW pilots had more job security and better promotional prospects than US pilots hired in 1988, including hundreds who had never been furloughed for a single day.
Thus, the “arbitration award” Plaintiffs purportedly seek to “vacate” is in actuality the proposed pilot seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy that ALPA will adopt as its bargaining position to be presented to the Company, but which (like a union bargaining position in any matter) the Company is not required to accept. Application, Ex.1 at 2,9 (ALPA will present to the company the merged seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy arbitration procedures, and “ALPA will use all reasonable means at its disposal to compel the company to accept and implement the merged seniority list”). Plaintiffs seek review of this ALPA bargaining position developed through ALPA Merger Policy, and, while couching it in the terms of “vacating” and “arbitration,” the relief they actually seek is a review of the product of ALPA’s Merger Policy, and, ultimately, alteration of ALPA’s bargaining proposal to the company…Plaintiff’s Application to “vacate” an “arbitration award” that does not establish any enforceable seniority rights in a collective bargaining agreement with the Company, but which merely sets out ALPA’s bargaining position to be presented to the company, is not a state law claim at all but rather an artfully pled Federal claim for breech of Duty of Fair Representation.
Judge Emmet Sullivan - Memorandum Opinion November 30, 2007
“Ultimately, the ALPA Merger Policy generates a proposed seniority list, which ALPA promises to present to the merged airlines in an effort to persuade the merged airlines to adopt the list.” See Defs. Opp’n 3-4.
Project Zanzibar
At the May 9 session of the Joint Negotiating Committee, Scott Kirby, President of the Company, revealed to the assembled representatives of both pilot groups and ALPA National that he had headed a project code-named “Project Zanzibar” for AW in 2005 and that the legal papers for a Chapter 11 filing had been prepared and a plan developed for AW’s bankruptcy in the event that the merger failed to come to fruition. Project Zanzibar was AW’s only Plan B. It is now beyond dispute that the junior AW pilot, Dave Odell, and 300-400 other AW F/Os hired in 2002-05 would have been furloughed absent the US merger, as AW went into Chapter 11, perhaps never to emerge. In light of this new disclosure from the carrier’s President, there is clearly no support for the explicit premise of the Nicolau Award that these AW pilots had more job security and better promotional prospects than US pilots hired in 1988, including hundreds who had never been furloughed for a single day.
luvthe9
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"If the ALPA process was final and binding why was there a Rice committee, a blue ribbon panel and Wye River? But then, our own Merger attorney made it clear in a court filing back in July 2007 that “the proposed pilot seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy that ALPA will adopt as its bargaining position to be presented to the Company, but which (like a union bargaining position in any matter) the Company is not required to accept.”
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