2015 AMT Discussion

[700UW]

Yes they did, I believe it was Delta +7%

Show us a whole proposal from the company

 

[1AA]

Show us a whole proposal from the company

Show us? Maybe you just want to see it. Will you be voting on the T/A? We need to be concerned about a proposal. Don't know why your so interested.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

 
 
Todays Democrats are not the same as your Grampa's.  These America hating thugs are importing terrorists by the thousands.  Pushing a BS global warming agenda that would see our industry taxed to bankruptcy.  At the same time, trying every way possible to disarm Americans.  Worrying about who is labor friendly is only one issue, and in the big picture - not my biggest concern.

I'll expand that a little bit.  I believe that if the pilots refused to fly aircraft that were overhauled outside of the U.S. it wouldn't be a problem.  I also believe the pilots, as a whole, figured that money saved by outsourcing maintenance would make more money available for them.  In a word, they sold their own safety and the safety of the passengers for more money.  I would also say that any pilot who claims maintenance performed outside of our boarders is not a compromise on safety is delusional.  But we have seen what the pilots think of other work groups when the FAs went on strike and they crossed their picket lines.  Unfortunately it will take an incident involving a foreign overhauled aircraft to bring this to light. 

 

[xUT]

I'll expand that a little bit.  I believe that if the pilots refused to fly aircraft that were overhauled outside of the U.S. it wouldn't be a problem.  I also believe the pilots, as a whole, figured that money saved by outsourcing maintenance would make more money available for them.  In a word, they sold their own safety and the safety of the passengers for more money.  I would also say that any pilot who claims maintenance performed outside of our boarders is not a compromise on safety is delusional.  But we have seen what the pilots think of other work groups when the FAs went on strike and they crossed their picket lines.  Unfortunately it will take an incident involving a foreign overhauled aircraft to bring this to light. 

IIRC the president of ALPO stated he had no problem with outsourcing.
Now that pilots are facing the outsourcing of their jobs all of the sudden outsourcing is bad and are pan handling to garner support to stop it.
F.Them!
B) xUT

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Heard that in the morning meeting today. Did not hear about his replacement.
My opinion, Collins was not fit for the job.

I agree.  When he first came to Tulsa he said he was surprised that AMTs didn't want their neighbors to know they worked at AA and that the moral was very low.  Then he proceeded to run the Tulsa base like a f---ing prison.  He also promoted the dumbest, most incompetent people to directors.  They continue to destroy any chance there is of getting or keeping any work here.  I wish that sawed off piece of crap all the worst.............  I am OldGuy and I approve this message.

 

[xUT]

IIRC the president of ALPO stated he had no problem with outsourcing.
Now that pilots are facing the outsourcing of their jobs all of the sudden outsourcing is bad and are pan handling to garner support to stop it.
F.Them!
B) xUT

For the record, not all pilots suck.
I walked the eastern picket line at sfo with some fine pilots, but there were enough scabs to keep EA flying.
Too few...

 

[OldGuy@AA]

IIRC the president of ALPO stated he had no problem with outsourcing.
Now that pilots are facing the outsourcing of their jobs all of the sudden outsourcing is bad and are pan handling to garner support to stop it.
F.Them!
B) xUT

Yup

 

[OldGuy@AA]

For the record, not all pilots suck.
I walked the eastern picket line at sfo with some fine pilots, but there were enough scabs to keep EA flying.
Too few...

This is also true.  Not all pilots suck, just most of them. haha

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

IIRC the president of ALPO stated he had no problem with outsourcing.
Now that pilots are facing the outsourcing of their jobs all of the sudden outsourcing is bad and are pan handling to garner support to stop it.
F.Them!
B) xUT

I respectfully disagree. It was wrong when they didn't fight it. It is wrong to not support the effort to fight it now as it was then. Just because some group were dick heads doesn't mean that the next group needs to repeat it.

I was very upset with the IAM doing struck work while I was on strike, but that does not mean that I would encourage or support anyone crossing their picket line. I doubt that this will ever happen again after EAL. I would never do what they did. I am better than those that did, and hold my head high today.

 

[700UW]

Show us? Maybe you just want to see it. Will you be voting on the T/A? We need to be concerned about a proposal. Don't know why your so interested.

Why are you obsessed with me?

 

[topDawg]

Since you are pretty good at advising us how to do this and do that and what we should fight for, how about this.......Why don't YOU quit your non union position at Delta and join us at AA so you could represented not only by a worthless union, but a self serving  AND useless ASSociation.

Same question for you, all you care about is money......go to Southwest, UPS or FedEX?
 
And why don't I leave Delta? Few reasons 
1) you have already said you want everyone junior to you gone so you can take there pay, why in the hell would I want to work with someone like that? 
2) Tulsa isn't my cup of tea. I prefer Atlanta. Thats one of the reasons I started with Delta in the first place. 
3) I'm way to old for that. 
 
But you are simply wimping out. You and every other member has the final say. Its very simple, IAM/TWU brings you a turd vote no. Simple as that. 
 

Better yet, why don't YOU get your fellow mechanics to join the TWU....
Then tell us how it worked out for you.

 Err... because I'm getting paid and Delta is probably going to end up doing more work in-house than any union company? Oh and Delta management is smart enough to allow us to add an extra 700M to the bottom line. (helps with a bigger profit sharing check) 
 
Having said that, for every turd you guys and United signs it drags everyone down. 
 

 

Of course that is going to be the plan OS. The question is do your union brothers and sisters have the balls to stand up and tell the company no? NO!  Judging by the posts on here you guys are just going to pay for your own raises, continue to be a drain on the industry and end up with a cost neutral contract when your company is posting record numbers by the billion(with a B). YES!
 
And the best part of it all, your going to double to amount of work you send out for higher pay that the company and union will take from you the second the industry hits another low spot.          YES! well thats pretty sad. 
 
 
So your company is making record profits and you feel the need to pay for your own pay increases?  NO!, however when you are fight your own represntation how would you suggest we proceed? You move the f**k on. AMFA didn't get in. Move on. Re-vote in a few years, till then work with what you've got and make it clear (BY VOTING!) you wont take concessions. 
​If DALPA can vote down a turd and change its house you can. The TWU isn't on the same level of "do whatever the company wants" as the Moak group ran DALPA. 
 
Is that what being in the TWU does to people? YES!  you feel that, even in record setting times, you should take 20 bucks out of your left pocket just to put it in your right and call it a "raise"? Why not tell the company you want to in source work and get Delta money? Why should you send out 20-30% more work than Delta does just get to less total money than Delta? It was negotiated this time under a Collective Bargaining Agreement under the threat of bankruptcy. No. I mean right now. Very simple, you and your union get Delta/benefits pay plus legacy AA scope. That would be a great TA to build your airline on and its not really asking all that much. IMO. 
 
That is the worst logic I have ever heard. Who cares what other work groups should do? you guys constantly b**ch about the TWU taking concessions, and then post on here that you are willing to take concessions. 
 
If you guys get the scope parker wants I'll be willing to bet you wont be doing engines in-house anymore other than maybe the CFM56-7
 
exactly. This is a person who gets it. 
Your company is rolling in money and some of yall are ready to pay for your own raises. 
 
The TWU traditionally runs a a jobs program, to keep as many employed as possible as it can. In theory this a great idea, with the results which have been quite successful. but you are correct we are poorly compensated compared to our peers in the industry.

Oh and FYI buck, TWU didn't start the OSM thing. 
 
We have had "helpers" (which became ASMs which are the same as OSMs) for years and years, but more importantly most of your major MROs do are majority "OSM" type mechanics. They just have A&P mechanics (who get paid for their A&P) to pencil whip the paperwork.  
 
Having said that, If you keep the legacy AA scope and have to bring in those engines/components plus extra airframe work on the LUS side I would be willing to bet you guys wouldn't have many, if any, A&Ps left on your OSM lists. Same exact thing happened at Delta. 

 

[Buck]

They haven't met with the company, sure your not talking about UA?

No proposals have been exchanged.

700 surely you are smarter than that.....

 

[Buck]

Same question for you, all you care about is money......go to Southwest, UPS or FedEX?
 
And why don't I leave Delta? Few reasons 
1) you have already said you want everyone junior to you gone so you can take there pay, why in the hell would I want to work with someone like that? 
2) Tulsa isn't my cup of tea. I prefer Atlanta. Thats one of the reasons I started with Delta in the first place. 
3) I'm way to old for that. 
 
But you are simply wimping out. You and every other member has the final say. Its very simple, IAM/TWU brings you a turd vote no. Simple as that. 
 
 Err... because I'm getting paid and Delta is probably going to end up doing more work in-house than any union company? Oh and Delta management is smart enough to allow us to add an extra 700M to the bottom line. (helps with a bigger profit sharing check) 
 
Having said that, for every turd you guys and United signs it drags everyone down. 
 
Oh and FYI buck, TWU didn't start the OSM thing. 
 
We have had "helpers" (which became ASMs which are the same as OSMs) for years and years, but more importantly most of your major MROs do are majority "OSM" type mechanics. They just have A&P mechanics (who get paid for their A&P) to pencil whip the paperwork.  
 
Having said that, If you keep the legacy AA scope and have to bring in those engines/components plus extra airframe work on the LUS side I would be willing to bet you guys wouldn't have many, if any, A&Ps left on your OSM lists. Same exact thing happened at Delta. 

Ok, the I have never worked for Delta, so how would I know. In 1984 at American, there was a Junior Mechanic and probably since the beginning of maintenance at AA, then in 1995 the started a program called SRP or Shop Repair Person. Then it was carried over to the OSM and then the AMTO, do they have all of this at Delta? 

 

[topDawg]

Ok, the I have never worked for Delta, so how would I know. In 1984 at American, there was a Junior Mechanic and probably since the beginning of maintenance at AA, then in 1995 the started a program called SRP or Shop Repair Person. Then it was carried over to the OSM and then the AMTO, do they have all of this at Delta?

first what is a AMTO?

Delta has three jobs for people who work on airframe/components/engines and the line.
1) MUE= Maintenance Utility Employee. MUE's for the post part are cleaners, warehouse workers and part go getters. AFAIK they can't sign anything off and a very, very limited on what they can do. The back shops might have 1 or 2 per shits and the line (and I think its only in the hubs really) has a hand full. The main focus is cleaners (parts, aircraft etc) and warehouse work. 
 
 
2) ASM= Aircraft Support Mechanic. this started out as "helpers" or "junior mechanics" The main idea with them was it gave people who wanted a A&P a chance to get a job with the air and build time while they went to school or used the company program. That evolved into the ASM program. The numbers of ASM really grew in BK. We had about, IIRC, 1,000 guys who had the choice of taking a furlough or become an ASM(but if you took the ASM slot you lost your recall rights so I would bet 85-90% of the people offered went on furlough.) Then post BK it didn't take long to recall everyone and clean the ASM lists of people who had been bumped down. We haven't had an exAMT as an ASM in years. For the most part the program is back to allowing people to get there A&Ps via the airline or school and building time. We do have a a full of shops that are staffed completely with ASMs(leads are AMTs) but its very few and those that are (wheel and brake stands out) would be outsourced if we forced the company to go back to all AMT. Just can't compete with the vendors. We have a few in each hangar bay that does checks and I think the line has a handful in hub stations. Also our cabin maintenance dept. is mostly ASMs but does have some AMTs (and all the leads are AMTs). They have 8(i think) stations plus they work in bays in ATL/MSP.
 
3) AMT= Aviation Maintenance Technician. That is just your A&P mechanic. Depending on where you work you get 1 or 2 license pay. (a hand full of the back shops are still 1 license shops but Delta has been pushing to get everyone an A&P because it adds flexibility, so a lot of the back shops are going to 2 license pay) Also out coneheads and painters are AMTs but they get license and a half pay ("skill" pay). They do not have to have an A&P but like the shops Delta is trying to get everyone A&Ps.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Fwiw, Delta hired A&P's with little to no experience right out of school as "Junior Mechanic" back in the 80's.