2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[NYer]

Are you suggesting a JCBA should be reached as soon as possible based on current oil prices and the lack of a recent terrorist attack on our soil? Please be assured... the company will always find some reason to seek concessions in contract talks. --And we should not try to take advantage of the favorable conditions in order to make their reasons more difficult to make. Getting ready and preparing for a JCBA is much different than reaching an agreement as soon as possible.
 
I've been around for 34+ years. I have heard it all before. 09/11, oil prices, competition from low cost carriers and so on. In the end... DP's, and historically other previous CEOs interests, lie strictly with profits and ultimate returns to the stockholders. What if, 6 months from now, oil prices continue to drop as forecasted? What if 6 months down the road we are paying less than $3.00 per gallon at the pump? What if 6 months down the road Russia's economy continues to tank, North Korea softens their stand and there is no credible domestic terrorist. I would suggest all three examples are quite likely. Do you take your shot now or wait for a better kill shot? If we are ready and conditions continue to improve then we can slow the talks down. However, if we are not prepared and conditions worsen then we can't take advantage of being able to wrap things up before we lose more. For a group that continually declares in what horrible conditions we find ourselves contractually, it's funny how little impulse there is to get ready and get to the table.
 
It's a matter of opinion I guess. Regardless, the NMB must rule first on the recognition of the Association as the Bargaining Representative of the combined Fleet group, before formal and meaningful JCBA negotiations can begin. The airline will not entertain any informal talks, prior to formal negotiations, to reveal what their position or agenda will be in future contract negotiations. The process is slow. It is a test of patience, commitment and solidarity. Let's be patient and committed to the solidarity and long term benefit of the combined Fleet membership. Patience is a virtue. --Getting and being prepared for negotiations has nothing to do with the NMB. It is prudent to be prepared and ready for whenever the actual negotiations take place. It is very apparent the airline has a goal of getting their JCBA done by the time they get the Single Operators' Certificate and there may be a premium tied to that. If there is, then we need to capitalize on it. Sitting around, by choice, may not get us the best deal we can have if we miss the opportunity that seems to be available. Aside from their goals, we also risk other conditions to change and make it more difficult to achieve the possible gains. In 2008, they were two years into profits, but the economy tanked and it us and industry with it.

 

[T5towbar]

 
Do you believe it beneficial to wait and extract every possible morsel but at the same time risk the chance of favorable conditions turning into unfavorable conditions? 
 
Prime example, let's say UA announces they will close another 30 or 40 stations while we are trying to re-open and re-staff stations...won't that make it more difficult for us to succeed? It seems the best way to get the best deal is to act while the conditions are in our favor, as far as fuel prices, market conditions, the world economy, the national economy, no warfare in our near future and so on.
 
If we are to learn from the past then we don't have to look too further than 2008. Coming off two years where the airline made a profit the mantra at that time was restore and more. We ended up not bringing forward a 3 year contract that would have allowed raises which we didn't see until 4 years later and after a BK.
 
It is true that a rushing a deal for the sake of raises is not the best way to go, but I don't believe the opposite is in our best interest either.
 
If we would have taken these past 6 months or so and started preparing for negotiations and even talked to the airline to see what their positions were...we wouldn't have to rush but at the same time we'd be better prepared and could of had the necessary debates now rather than wasting time and risking conditions turn away from our favor later.

It's about to happen sooner than you think. 
27 or 28 of the non protected line stations are on the block even as I write. There probably be an announcement either next week or the week after (that's usually when they announce the bad news). So it's going to happen. We don't know if they are going to whack them in pieces (6 or 7 at a time) or whack all 27 at once. Rumors are rampant of which they will all go at once, but when this is all over, Tier 3, and the smaller Tier 2 will be gone. All that will be left is the larger line stations that are protected till '16 (and the ones that supposed to be insourced) and the hubs. Since DEN is going up in flames (on the Express side) they may hold back the news a week or two.
 
People took the money. Now we will pay for it.
 
The bloodbath begins..........

 

[WeAAsles]

RLA,NMB, ASSOCIATION, AAL ,EVENTS, and MEMBERSHIP will be the deciding factors in JCBA . NOT ! AF Posters / Readers . The sad reality is APATHY will continue in 2015 with the majority of UNION Members . Amending  the RLA in 2016 by Congress for real reform and change would be a game changer for ALL Airline Workers moving forward in 2015 . WE shall see ? Fish On !

And THIS is why I support the idea behind the Association and consolidating a much stronger base between the two Unions who seem to have a huge majority of members in our industry as members. The IAM drive at Delta could be the last piece of the puzzle if that's ultimately successful? Our Association between the IAM and TWU could be the linchpin for garnering strategies and support to attempt to lobby for changes that help us on Capital Hill and against the very strong influence of IATA and A4A (ATA) that our companies use to push agenda's that are against us.

But that can only happen of course if people stop looking in the rear-view at all the damage that's happened to us in the past and try to begin to look forward.  

 

[john john]

It's about to happen sooner than you think. 
27 or 28 of the non protected line stations are on the block even as I write. There probably be an announcement either next week or the week after (that's usually when they announce the bad news). So it's going to happen. We don't know if they are going to whack them in pieces (6 or 7 at a time) or whack all 27 at once. Rumors are rampant of which they will all go at once, but when this is all over, Tier 3, and the smaller Tier 2 will be gone. All that will be left is the larger line stations that are protected till '16 (and the ones that supposed to be insourced) and the hubs. Since DEN is going up in flames (on the Express side) they may hold back the news a week or two.
 
People took the money. Now we will pay for it.
 
The bloodbath begins..........

Very sad news if and when this happens. it is hard to live with the cloud of outsourcing language hanging over your head. It is a shame more couldn’t have been done to prevent this type of travesty

 

[WeAAsles]

And yes it is time that our two groups get together and start some conversations (If that isn't currently ongoing at the moment behind the scenes?)

I don't think it's as much an issue as strategizing or prepping as it is conversing. We already have a basic outline that the company wants to get to JCBA's fairly quickly and also know the BASE rate they are offering. 7% above the Top Delta rate. They have also thrown in a few premium items (sweeteners) to the APFA contract and the APA offer. What the company is going to ask for in regards to "productivity" (Their word) is the big question?

First the negotiators for both Unions should sit down and discuss the items in each others contracts that they prefer to keep the most? From there though both sides have to be willing to compromise on those items. Once that's hashed out an idea for the best and worst case scenarios on those items can be offered to the company to see how they respond. Many (most) other items should be fairly easy. The stronger language obviously being the proffered keep.

These conversations can and should be going on even if we have to wait for the NMB to make their ruling on the Association itself. We just started a new year and with that we have a lot more clarity thanks to the negotiations of the APFA and the APA. I think those stories were an invaluable opportunity we were given to gauge the situation for us.

And before someone brings up the 3 issues that my Union had about the Association agreements I'm sure they've either been worked out or they will work themselves out through the arbitration process spelled out in the Association language. 

Carpe Diem. 

 

[WeAAsles]

Happy New Year everyone...
 
2015 will hopefully bring an awesome agreement to Fleet in the form of a JCBA. Industry profits are projected to remain at historic highs, so this is an unprecedented window of opportunity in Airline Labor History. Don’t waste it!
 
The current folks at the IAM/TWU are all more than capable of negotiating an Industry leading agreement. Remember one thing though... YOU will be the final authority on YOUR contract.
 
Good luck, stay strong, and most importantly... STAY TOGETHER.
 
Do no fall for any political rhetoric thrown into this forum to distract you from the task at hand!

Nice to hear from ya BTW Roa.

Happy New Year 2015.

 

[roabilly]

Nice to hear from ya BTW Roa.

Happy New Year 2015.

Same to you WeAA... hope you have a wonderful 2015!
 
BTW... here is a link below you may be interested in... check out Panama! 
 
Best countries to retire in

 

[NYer]

It's about to happen sooner than you think. 
27 or 28 of the non protected line stations are on the block even as I write. There probably be an announcement either next week or the week after (that's usually when they announce the bad news). So it's going to happen. We don't know if they are going to whack them in pieces (6 or 7 at a time) or whack all 27 at once. Rumors are rampant of which they will all go at once, but when this is all over, Tier 3, and the smaller Tier 2 will be gone. All that will be left is the larger line stations that are protected till '16 (and the ones that supposed to be insourced) and the hubs. Since DEN is going up in flames (on the Express side) they may hold back the news a week or two.
 
People took the money. Now we will pay for it.
 
The bloodbath begins..........

 
If that happens, then the AA side will have a hard time trying to get stations opened and restaffed. Delta is already non-union and they have a large "temporary" work force and outsourced stations. Now United is going the same route with the closing of a couple of dozen stations. SWA is looking towards bringing in more PTers to help offset their costs...Meanwhile at AA we are being preached to take our time? It's going to be a loooooooong summer.

 

[psa8979]

AF Readers/Posters pay attention to events moving forward in 2015. Pilots TA/CBA will be  next indication for AAL/LCC FS  . Next event will be PS/ CWA/IBT/ASSOCIATION JCBA and # 1 issue  SCOPE  . We'll will learn a lot from these events that will shape our future JCBA with DP/AAL . Stay tuned . Stay informed . Step up or STFU . 

 

[WeAAsles]

Same to you WeAA... hope you have a wonderful 2015!
 
BTW... here is a link below you may be interested in... check out Panama! 
 
Best countries to retire in

Who knows? This year I'll be looking at condo's and still have a while to go before I start thinking about where or if I'm going to get out of here? 

Panama might be a little too expensive in the future? Let's see the strength of the dollar in the next 10 years?

 

[freedom]

EXTRA EXTRA READ ALL ABOUT IT!! ENTIRE AM SHIFT IN PHX HAS BEEN MANDOED!!!

What's that ? You've got thirty plus years? Dust off those knee pads and get in the bin!

Thanks to the new contract of getting all sick days awarded at the start of the year and not losing holiday pay for calling in ,people are all like "F this I'm sick for a week " (remember consecutive days off are one point)

 

[WeAAsles]

EXTRA EXTRA READ ALL ABOUT IT!! ENTIRE AM SHIFT IN PHX HAS BEEN MANDOED!!!

What's that ? You've got thirty plus years? Dust off those knee pads and get in the bin!

Thanks to the new contract of getting all sick days awarded at the start of the year and not losing holiday pay for calling in ,people are all like "F this I'm sick for a week " (remember consecutive days off are one point)

Deleted.

 

[freedom]

You have two choices

You can stay or you can get mandoed, your choice. ..

 

[WeAAsles]

Silly to burn through your hours just because you have them.

 

[ograc]

You have two choices

You can stay or you can get mandoed, your choice. ..

 
 Tighter language in the new JCBA concerning mandatory overtime. Check. Emergency situations... understandable. On a daily basis, because of the lack of staffing... I don't think so. Mandatory overtime, based on the company not hiring adequate staffing, seems almost illegal. Unfortunately, the current language, defines only how mandatory overtime is to be issued. It lacks any language that establishes parameters by which mandatory overtime is justified. This is an example of why a joint contract agreement should be read and reviewed in it's entirety. Work rule language needs improvement. If not... then be prepared to live with the consequences. This abuse of mandatory overtime is an example of the company taking full advantage of what is allowed by contract. In the meantime... choose thy fate! IMO... The contract goes far beyond the compensation package.